NASA cuts off contact with Russian officials

werepossum

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Jul 10, 2006
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http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/the-u-s-russia-fight-has-entered-space-20140402
Tensions between Russia and the United States have reached astronomical proportions.

NASA has suspended contact with Russian government representatives, The Verge reports, citing Russia's intervention in Ukraine. Arielle Duhaime-Ross writes:

In an internal NASA memorandum obtained by The Verge, NASA said that the suspension includes travel to Russia, teleconferences, and visits by Russian government officials to NASA facilities. NASA is even suspending the exchange of emails with Russian officials....

"NASA's goals aren't political," said a NASA scientist who to spoke The Verge on condition of anonymity. "This is one of the first major actions I have heard of from the U.S. government and it is to stop science and technology collaboration.... You're telling me there is nothing better?"

NASA confirmed the suspension in a statement Wednesday night.

"Given Russia's ongoing violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, NASA is suspending the majority of its ongoing engagements with the Russian Federation," a spokesman said. Operations aboard the International Space Station, which is a wholly collaborative effort between the two nations, are exempt from this suspension.

Just last week, a trio of astronauts, including two Russians and one American, launched into space on a Russian rocket, headed for the International Space Station. Without a shuttle program of its own, NASA depends on Russians to ferry its astronauts to and from the station, and pays them $70.7 million per seat. The U.S. space agency is working with private American companies to develop rockets and break out of Russia's transportation monopoly.

"NASA is laser-focused on a plan to return human spaceflight launches to American soil, and end our reliance on Russia to get into space," Wednesday night's statement read. "This has been a top priority of the Obama Administration's for the past five years, and had our plan been fully funded, we would have returned American human spaceflight launches—and the jobs they support—back to the United States next year."

Last week, NASA chief Charles Bolden blamed Congress for cutting the space agency's budget, keeping Americans reliant on Russian technology.

"The choice here is between fully funding the plan to bring space launches back to America or continuing to send millions of dollars to the Russians," the statement continued. "It's that simple."

The U.S. and Russia first collaborated in space in July 1975, when a Soviet Soyuz capsule carrying two cosmonauts docked with a U.S. Apollo module carrying three astronauts. In the 1990s, after the Soviet Union collapsed, the U.S. asked Russia to join its work on the International Space Station.

Last week, the situation was much rosier. NASA was "confident that our two space agencies will continue to work closely as they have throughout various ups and downs of the broader U.S.-Russia relationship." NASA's relationship with Roscomos, the Russian federal space agency, had previously withstood the conflict in Syria and Russia's protection of NSA whistle-blower Edward Snowden. "It doesn't appear that we are affected by what's going on diplomatically with the Russians," Al Sofge, director of NASA's human exploration and operations division, said in December. "I don't know that we've ever even discussed it."

Looks like the Ukraine crisis is different.
A couple of thoughts. First, operations aboard the International Space Station are exempt from this suspension, but as everyone knows the US can no longer put a man into space I see no reason why Russia would continue selling us rides. Second, I have zero faith that NASA, having been realigned as an agency charged with pushing global warming and making Arabs feel good about themselves, actually has the technological muscle to safely return to manned space flight even if we somehow find the money.

Is the International Space Station about to become the Russian Imperial Space Station? How long can one claim ownership of something one cannot reach?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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ISS is supposed to be exempt, who knows.

Yes I know you said that, but you never know.

We could actually put a man into space still probably faster than you'd think, but probably won't.
 

bradly1101

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http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/the-u-s-russia-fight-has-entered-space-20140402

A couple of thoughts. First, operations aboard the International Space Station are exempt from this suspension, but as everyone knows the US can no longer put a man into space I see no reason why Russia would continue selling us rides. Second, I have zero faith that NASA, having been realigned as an agency charged with pushing global warming and making Arabs feel good about themselves, actually has the technological muscle to safely return to manned space flight even if we somehow find the money.

Is the International Space Station about to become the Russian Imperial Space Station? How long can one claim ownership of something one cannot reach?


Space-X is supplying the space station and is even fitting seats to prototypes, so we may not need them for that either causing more isolation.

I think the future of America in space lies in the private sector.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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I am sure Atlas V rocket's Russian engines are exempt too.
The better question is what's not exempt, and do these "sanctions" actually stop anything?
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
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I am sure Atlas V rocket's Russian engines are exempt too.
The better question is what's not exempt, and do these "sanctions" actually stop anything?

Yeah interesting that :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180


Russia does not export a lot of machinery though. They do export about twice as much as they import. And to top it off, many of their exports are the same products as their imports, so its unlikely Russia will see shortages much if trade dies off.

They even export Wheat, and electricity. Global wheat prices are actually jacking up now due to the "situation".
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/the-u-s-russia-fight-has-entered-space-20140402

A couple of thoughts. First, operations aboard the International Space Station are exempt from this suspension, but as everyone knows the US can no longer put a man into space I see no reason why Russia would continue selling us rides. Second, I have zero faith that NASA, having been realigned as an agency charged with pushing global warming and making Arabs feel good about themselves, actually has the technological muscle to safely return to manned space flight even if we somehow find the money.

Is the International Space Station about to become the Russian Imperial Space Station? How long can one claim ownership of something one cannot reach?

The Russian segment can't function with out power from the US segment. We contribute to the program and they do as well. Both control centers will continue to make sure the crews are safe.

Besides, we went through this back when Russia invaded Georgia. Plus they just launched a new crew last week so we've got several more months for the situation to settle.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/the-u-s-russia-fight-has-entered-space-20140402

A couple of thoughts. First, operations aboard the International Space Station are exempt from this suspension, but as everyone knows the US can no longer put a man into space I see no reason why Russia would continue selling us rides. Second, I have zero faith that NASA, having been realigned as an agency charged with pushing global warming and making Arabs feel good about themselves, actually has the technological muscle to safely return to manned space flight even if we somehow find the money.

Is the International Space Station about to become the Russian Imperial Space Station? How long can one claim ownership of something one cannot reach?

first off nasa is never going to give priority to social programs over crony capitalism

would you please understand that
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Time to restart the shuttle program?

no

the shuttle supposadly had tons of small parts made by tons of small companies

very ineffecient and one company going out of business could of stopped the whole shuttle program

also prone to accidents

for now rockets are the way to go
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Yeah interesting that : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180 Russia does not export a lot of machinery though. They do export about twice as much as they import. And to top it off, many of their exports are the same products as their imports, so its unlikely Russia will see shortages much if trade dies off. They even export Wheat, and electricity. Global wheat prices are actually jacking up now due to the "situation".

elon musk was just on capital hill and was saying that united launch alliance should switch over to the delta because of the russian engines on the atlas rockets and elon musk can also meet demand for the air force with space x falcon rockets.
 

werepossum

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Jul 10, 2006
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Space-X is supplying the space station and is even fitting seats to prototypes, so we may not need them for that either causing more isolation.

I think the future of America in space lies in the private sector.
Agreed, although there's something very pleasing about one's nation being able to put a man on the moon.

Time to restart the shuttle program?
I think as norseamd says there are too many parts no longer available. For years we were robbing one or two to keep the others flying. Besides, the new environmentally safe heat foam is shit, giving us the choice of either keeping out astronauts safe or our environment safe. Surely decades later we can do better.

The Russian segment can't function with out power from the US segment. We contribute to the program and they do as well. Both control centers will continue to make sure the crews are safe.

Besides, we went through this back when Russia invaded Georgia. Plus they just launched a new crew last week so we've got several more months for the situation to settle.
That last is good news. Hopefully this is settled somewhat amicably by the time they need to come down.
 

Franz316

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The Orion manned capsule is still a few years off for NASA.

SpaceX also has a manned module in the works but is probably farther away than NASA's.

That means Russia is the only game in town for the foreseeable future.
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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SpaceX also has a manned module in the works but is probably farther away than NASA's.

so if the capsule is workable and leak proof as a cargo capsule what is stopping us from just strapping in seats?

milestones are good for peacetime but this is somewhat critical time
 

Paratus

Lifer
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so if the capsule is workable and leak proof as a cargo capsule what is stopping us from just strapping in seats?

milestones are good for peacetime but this is somewhat critical time

Thousands of hours of testing for man rating, developing operational procedure for manned flight, training crews and ground crew for manned flight.

These aren't cars. You don't just get in and come home.
 

bradly1101

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Agreed, although there's something very pleasing about one's nation being able to put a man on the moon.

Yes and I'm a space-geek and remember the landing at what it represented. The advancements in technology are great, BUT the overall return on investment and R&D costs make it something a government may not be able to afford.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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I am sure Atlas V rocket's Russian engines are exempt too.
The better question is what's not exempt, and do these "sanctions" actually stop anything?

Holy crap batman, when the hell did we let that happen. Let me guess, low bids are always the best right? Just ask the Walmart mentality nation.
 

Brovane

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Dec 18, 2001
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Holy crap batman, when the hell did we let that happen. Let me guess, low bids are always the best right? Just ask the Walmart mentality nation.

Basically for US DOD payloads there is currently a single source ULA which is a joint venture of Lockheed and Boeing. The problem is that the Delta and Atlas rockets cost so much they have difficulty effectively competing for commercial contracts with other nation’s launch vehicles. So the only way for both launchers to survive was for the companies to combine operations. Even then the DOD gives ULA money each year to just maintain launch capability above and beyond the costs they pay to launch each payload. The main customer of ULA is the US govt. The good thing about ULA is they have extremely high reliability for all their launches. Space X is trying to break into this market but they have to demonstrate they can maintain also a high reliability for the launchers. The RD-180 ULA has a full set of blue-prints for the engine and has legal rights to manufacture the engine. If necessary they could probably move quickly and produce the rocket engine in a US factory. Also maintain a stock of several years’ worth of engines. I suspect there is serious consideration to moving the manufacturer of this engine to the US.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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The Orion manned capsule is still a few years off for NASA.

SpaceX also has a manned module in the works but is probably farther away than NASA's.

That means Russia is the only game in town for the foreseeable future.

The issue with the Commercial Crew Development is that Congress keeps cutting the requested funding so the development has been slowed down. For example in 2012 850 million was requested and Congress only approved 406 million. In 2013 830 million was requested but onl 488 million was approved. This keeps pushing back the schedule since it slows development. Congress needs to restore the full funding for this program. Under this contract both Boeing and Space X are the furthest along in development. I would give the edge to Space X since they have already demonstrated a working cargo capsule and the Boeing capsule hasn't been in space yet. However what NASA wants out of the Commercial crew contract is two different companies with two different spacecraft to have maximum flexibility in operations to and from LEO.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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I think the future of America in space lies in the private sector.

Yes and I'm a space-geek and remember the landing at what it represented. The advancements in technology are great, BUT the overall return on investment and R&D costs make it something a government may not be able to afford.

the possibilities of a unchecked private sector have already been shown

there is a lot to be gained from the private industry but we must be careful

and the government is fully capable of running a spaceflight program

transparancy must be increased and crony capitalism has to be eleiminated

and so not sure what you are talking about that the lack of return of investment would prevent the government. in fact the lack of return of investment would likely be more detrimental to a private company without large reserves of money and who might focus only on short term gains. the government has taxes to support state spaceflight industry
 

werepossum

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Jul 10, 2006
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Yes and I'm a space-geek and remember the landing at what it represented. The advancements in technology are great, BUT the overall return on investment and R&D costs make it something a government may not be able to afford.
Agreed.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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The Orion manned capsule is still a few years off for NASA.

SpaceX also has a manned module in the works but is probably farther away than NASA's.

That means Russia is the only game in town for the foreseeable future.
Orion was canned I'd thought myself.

Yes space is becoming more of a Private venture in the US for manned anyway.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
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They do both exist in the US, just not manned for launching Government wise.