Narrowed down my search...BMW E93

[jtvang125]

Update: It's now in my garage.

UPDATE: Found one, white on black in flawless condition. Will be picking it up tomorrow.

I'm going to start testing driving a few this weekend. I think the window regulators are still a weak point to these cars so I'm going to test them thoroughly. Not much I can do to test leaks on the hardtop unless it's raining. Anything else I need to watch out for?

 

[Vdubchaos]

It's a German car.

EVERYTHING is overly expensive and complex for no apparent reason.

DO NOT own it out of warranty.

PS. This is based on ownership of numerous German cars (VWs, BMWs, MB etc) and interactions with Master Mechanics from all 3 (which are good friends of mine).

Germans are still struggling to get the basics right/reliable....yet they are putting more new CRAP into their cars than ever before.

I can't tell you how many times I've worked on a German car and said to myself "wtf would make them design it this way". It's also easy to come up with a easy solutions for those situations which makes me wonder how great these German Engineers really are.....

When I was younger (and stupid) I used to be the biggest Euro car snob you can ever find. It's been 15 years of European car ownership (and knowing MANY people that own them as well).

Now I'm quite the opposite. More of a Domestic car snob to be honest. Americans are making REALLY nice cars as of late.

 

[manimal]

^ comment above is only valid if your a luddite and cant turn a wrench..

Higher cost of ownership. Yes.

Of course if you want cheap buy something else.

E

 

[Vdubchaos]

^ comment above is only valid if your a luddite and cant turn a wrench..

That's why I saved over 15k over the years turning my own wrench on ALL my cars. From Turbo swaps/brakes/clutches/exhaust to suspension. Name it, I probably have done it.

Even then, they are still not very reliable and very expensive to maintain/fix YOURSELF....and do require lot of time (depending on car/part of course). And please don't post the BS JD Power reliability reports cause they are full of SHIT.

Heck BMW is notorious for preventing owners from working on their cars. Ask me how I know.....

 

[manimal]

That's why I saved over 15k over the years turning my own wrench on ALL my cars. From Turbo swaps/brakes/clutches/exhaust to suspension. Name it, I probably have done it.

Even then, they are still not very reliable and very expensive to maintain/fix YOURSELF....and do require lot of time (depending on car/part of course). And please don't post the BS JD Power reliability reports cause they are full of SHIT.

Heck BMW is notorious for preventing owners from working on their cars. Ask me how I know.....

From practical experience owning many BMWs and wrenching many many more the costs of ownership isnt that bad if you stay away from dealers and do as much as possible yourself.

My current E30 and e39 are as easy to work on as my lexus or a ford explorer. Sure some parts are going to be cheaper with domestics but at the end of the day as its been for generations....you get what you pay for.


Ask me how I know.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

That's why I saved over 15k over the years turning my own wrench on ALL my cars. From Turbo swaps/brakes/clutches/exhaust to suspension. Name it, I probably have done it.

Even then, they are still not very reliable and very expensive to maintain/fix YOURSELF....and do require lot of time (depending on car/part of course). And please don't post the BS JD Power reliability reports cause they are full of SHIT.

Heck BMW is notorious for preventing owners from working on their cars. Ask me how I know.....

Talk about an exaggeration, good grief.. They are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be.

We've had threads on here with this exact same argument, and people have posted up parts cost differences between BMW/MB and Ford/GM/Honda and they were all very very close.. like within 10%.

Also, the parts quality tends to be MUCH better with german cars.. From sensors to brakes to switches.

How does BMW specifically prevent you from working on the car? Why post up something like that and ask people to ask you... Sigh....


As manimal said; you get what you pay for. The german equivalent tends to be a better vehicle. If you just care about a cage with 4 wheels and go/stop pedals then you won't care. If you care about your car, and look at it as more than a tool, then you going to have to pay a bit more (whether it's foreign or not)


All of that being said, service can be expensive on german cars. If you are incapable of reading forums and doing some of your own troubleshooting then I probably wouldn't recommend getting one.

 

[JoeyP]

We've had threads on here with this exact same argument, and people have posted up parts cost differences between BMW/MB and Ford/GM/Honda and they were all very very close.. like within 10%
....
All of that being said, service can be expensive on german cars. If you are incapable of reading forums and doing some of your own troubleshooting then I probably wouldn't recommend getting one.

I have to sometimes wonder what makes a "German" car. With the amount of outsourcing for design and manufacture, I'm sure all car makers cross the borders to get the job done. Maybe there is still a certain amount of reverence attached to brands? If I had a BMW or Mercedes or VW, it would have to be built in freakin' Germany, not Mexico or South Carolina, in order for me to really call it German Car. I joke that my Buick is a Canadian car for the same reason. 😀

 

[xapo99]

Also, the parts quality tends to be MUCH better with german cars.. From sensors to brakes to switches.

With respect, that is nonsense, right now anyway. At one point MB and BMW were producing high quality machines that rarely went wrong. Not so now, my 535D is build way worse than my wife's Kia Sportage, and one came with a 3 yr warranty and one a 7.....so guess who was putting much better quality parts on ?

Cars are build by accountants now....quality has suffered.

 

[Vdubchaos]

With respect, that is nonsense, right now anyway. At one point MB and BMW were producing high quality machines that rarely went wrong. Not so now, my 535D is build way worse than my wife's Kia Sportage, and one came with a 3 yr warranty and one a 7.....so guess who was putting much better quality parts on ?

Cars are build by accountants now....quality has suffered.

Agreed

Quality is just way down. Just look at your average current day BMW interior. Not only does it look like crap (from design stand point)...but it's cheesy as heck.

Also, Germans are WELL known for poor electronics and general rubber/plastic parts quality. This has only gotten worst over the years (from what I've seen).

My current E30 and e39 are as easy to work on as my lexus or a ford explorer. Sure some parts are going to be cheaper with domestics but at the end of the day as its been for generations....you get what you pay for.

Today's BMW and E30/E39 is a TOTALLY different ball game.

Those were the days when BMWs actually looked nice/had class etc.

Now they just look like bunch of melted plastic/too many curves/0 class (just me though). I haven't seen 1 BMW past 10 years or so (outside of E46) that appealed to me.

All of that being said, service can be expensive on german cars. If you are incapable of reading forums and doing some of your own troubleshooting then I probably wouldn't recommend getting one.

This will not apply to 99% of your average BMW consumers.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

With respect, that is nonsense, right now anyway. At one point MB and BMW were producing high quality machines that rarely went wrong. Not so now, my 535D is build way worse than my wife's Kia Sportage, and one came with a 3 yr warranty and one a 7.....so guess who was putting much better quality parts on ?

Cars are build by accountants now....quality has suffered.

I will give you that... I do feel as though the latest versions (~09+) have gone way downhill, but most of the people on this board (granted, not the OP) have cars from the era where things truly were better.

 

[Vdubchaos]

With respect, that is nonsense, right now anyway. At one point MB and BMW were producing high quality machines that rarely went wrong. Not so now, my 535D is build way worse than my wife's Kia Sportage, and one came with a 3 yr warranty and one a 7.....so guess who was putting much better quality parts on ?

Cars are build by accountants now....quality has suffered.

Last great/long lasting/reliable Mercedes made was in the 80s.(W123)

 

[hans007]

though my current car is german and has had a couple more problems with it than some of my previous cars, its not hugely different.

i had an acura before and it had a few things break. had a nissan altima and it had some electrical issues.

i dont really think current german cars actually break down a lot more, but the parts do cost more.

my dad has a 2004 bmw X3. has like 120k miles on it, and its had 2 things go wrong. a window motor died, and his AC compressor needed replacing. but it isn't like those are horrible things that couldnt happen to any car.

 

[Vdubchaos]

my dad has a 2004 bmw X3. has like 120k miles on it, and its had 2 things go wrong. a window motor died, and his AC compressor needed replacing. but it isn't like those are horrible things that couldnt happen to any car.

It's really a crap shoot with these cars.

My moms brand new 2006 X5 spent first 3 months (out of 6) in the shop for # of different reasons (Vanos, electrical issues etc)

Almost ended up being a lemon.

Since then, it's been fine (outside of cheap ass interior buttons falling off etc).

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I cross shopped the A4/C350/CTS/TSX/9-3/Mustang/335i

I don't regret it at all, nothing else in the category came close. Best interior, best seats, best engine, best road manners, best everything.

 

[xapo99]

Last great/long lasting/reliable Mercedes made was in the 80s.(W123)

I'd stretch that to the late 90's E class. They were still over engineered, beautifully solid when you shut the doors, engines were a bit agricultural but very solid.

I had a conversation with an AA man (breakdown guy) who goes to over 500 breakdowns a year. I asked him what cars did he think broke down the least, his answer was Honda, followed by Hyundai's, Kia (obviously these two are Korean) and other Japanese makes, except Nissan. His rationale fron exclusing Nissan was since Renault bought them, they also inherited French 'unreliability' particularly in the Pickup trucks.

The most frequent breakdowns were anything French or German, particularly any Audi from the last 10 years or any Merc.

 

[jtvang125]

pic added

 

[halik]

It's a German car.

EVERYTHING is overly expensive and complex for no apparent reason.

DO NOT own it out of warranty.

PS. This is based on ownership of numerous German cars (VWs, BMWs, MB etc) and interactions with Master Mechanics from all 3 (which are good friends of mine).

Germans are still struggling to get the basics right/reliable....yet they are putting more new CRAP into their cars than ever before.

I can't tell you how many times I've worked on a German car and said to myself "wtf would make them design it this way". It's also easy to come up with a easy solutions for those situations which makes me wonder how great these German Engineers really are.....

When I was younger (and stupid) I used to be the biggest Euro car snob you can ever find. It's been 15 years of European car ownership (and knowing MANY people that own them as well).

Now I'm quite the opposite. More of a Domestic car snob to be honest. Americans are making REALLY nice cars as of late.

^ So much facepalm ^

Parts will run you ~20% more on average, labor at an independent shop runs about the same ($80-100bucks/hr ). You can get laptop diag cable for coding for $30-200 bucks for Audi & VW (vag com) ,BMW (INPA),Porsche (Durametric). Not sure MB has a handy aftermarket solution.

Tie rods for a focus run $40.43 for the outer and $83.30 for the inner. Tie rods on my 911 4s run 59.68 for the inner and 51.58 for the outer (OEM TRW).

 

[satyajitmenon]

pic added

Nice... congrats - Bob Smith.

 

[A5]

I have to sometimes wonder what makes a "German" car. With the amount of outsourcing for design and manufacture, I'm sure all car makers cross the borders to get the job done. Maybe there is still a certain amount of reverence attached to brands? If I had a BMW or Mercedes or VW, it would have to be built in freakin' Germany, not Mexico or South Carolina, in order for me to really call it German Car. I joke that my Buick is a Canadian car for the same reason. 😀

Yeah...my "Japanese" Mazda 6 was built in a Ford factory in Wisconsin next to the Fusion.

 

[rh71]

love the way it looks but I just don't find a good use for having the top down most of the time. Too hot when the sun is beaming overhead. Too hot when it's humid out (need a/c). Didn't even use it when we had it for a week... just for a half a day maybe. Wind in your hair < sweaty all over. I guess it's good for around dusk driving home from work.

 

[manimal]

Great car OP!

What option packages does it have? Can we see the interior please?

 

[jtvang125]

love the way it looks but I just don't find a good use for having the top down most of the time. Too hot when the sun is beaming overhead. Too hot when it's humid out (need a/c). Didn't even use it when we had it for a week... just for a half a day maybe. Wind in your hair < sweaty all over. I guess it's good for around dusk driving home from work.

Yea, still too hot right now to be driving it around midday with the top down. But as temp drops in the upcoming months it'll be better weather for the top down.

 

[jtvang125]

Great car OP!

What option packages does it have? Can we see the interior please?

The sports package was a must to me. It also has the premium package, nav, heated seats but not the full cold weather package and comfort access with comfort load. Don't think it has the logic7 sound system but the one in there sounds pretty good. Other than a few other small options that's about it. I'll get some more pics.

 

[manimal]

The sports package was a must to me. It also has the premium package, nav, heated seats but not the full cold weather package and comfort access with comfort load. Don't think it has the logic7 sound system but the one in there sounds pretty good. Other than a few other small options that's about it. I'll get some more pics.

nice!

Loved the premium seats when I sat in one.

 

[SSSnail]

Very nice, congrats!

I often daydream about cruising down PCH from Newport down to Laguna with the top dropped, just as the sun it's about to set, wind in my hair and not a care in the world... Then I take my car out for a spin around here, open the moon roof... The experience is just not the same. Damn the fog!