Nafta SuperHighway

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Also, some quick back of the envelope math suggests to me that a highway that wide would have AT LEAST 25 lanes in each direction. Doesn't that seem like quite a lot for the alleged purpose? Shipping to coastal US ports would still be much more efficient for destinations on the coasts themselves, and much of our population does in fact live in coastal areas near ports. So the only real use I could see of something like this would be to supply the Midwest and other central areas...something I don't think would require such a huge highway.

Geez, if you're going to have a fake story, at least make sure your fake facts make sense.

It also includes space for rail, telecom and pipelines. All in all this seems like a very smart thing to do.

Why?

That's the problem I'm having with this whole concept, it doesn't seem to make economic sense. Our current port system is well developed and has a LOT of setup behind it, and as far as I'm aware, it works pretty well. Fundamentally changing the flow of goods into our country JUST so we can use cheap Mexican dock workers and drivers doesn't seem like a good payoff from my perspective. It's just not this imaginary highway that would have to be built (and I stand behind my use of the word imaginary, even with rail, telcome and pipelines, there is no way it would need to be 400 yards wide), it's all the infrastructure to support it and branch off of it. Not to mention modernizing and improving what I'm sure are less than stellar Mexican ports. What possible reason is there to do any of this?

THis is not just about cheap dockworkers, but it is a factor. Lets face it Canada and Mexico are our largest trade partners. THey are also large suppliers of oil and gas to ths country. Frankly I dont see a problem with an express lane that connects Canada and Mexico. I think it would be easy to argue the case for such new infrastructure connecting the east and west of this country as well.

And 400 yerds wide is not that wide as you would want distance between your pipelines, railines and highways.

Sure, but is there a problem with what we've got right now? You say you could argue the case for something similar connecting east and west in this country...and again I ask why. Is there something lacking with what we've got now?

Railways are clogged with rail traffic.
Highway are clogged with semi traffic. I personaly would not minding seperating freight and commuter traffic as much as possible.
As far as pipelines, look what happened last summer with katrina. I guess you like having one major distribution point for gas and oil. Would also make it easier to refinaries farther inland.

Minus the property rights issues that will arise, I really dont see why this should be a problem at all.

I don't see it being a problem, but I'm not convinced it's a solution to anything either. I've driven on lots of interstates in the US, and with a few notable exceptions when they go through cities, most of them aren't "clogged". I see nothing wrong with the basic concept of shipping things into Mexico and driving them up to the US, especially for Midwestern states. I'm just not sure why we need a huge, brand new highway to do it.

Pipelines are another matter, but I'm not convinced anyone would buy into it. We have the capability to build pipelines already, clearly there is some economic incentive to build the refineries right on the coast like they are...it must be cheaper to ship refined products or something. As for Katrina, the problem there is one of volume, we don't have any extra refinery capacity, so any hit to production will cause problems. We could solve that by building more refineries ANYWHERE. Katrina wasn't (as far as I know) an issue of distribution so much as it was of refining.

 

[miketheidiot]

im not really sure what the benefit of this will be

 

[Patriot]

Originally posted by: TheTony
I don't generally post in P&N, but saw a topic in OT before it was moved.

Nor do I, but here goes.

Originally posted by: TheTony
Call me a skeptic; while this may already be in the early stages, I don't think it (in its entirety) will be completed. Interstate 35W and 35E in Minnesota go through the hearts of Minneapolis and Saint Paul, respectively. The amount of right-of-way needed to create that wide of an expressway is staggering, just in this one metropolitan area.

The plans for this freeway are well underway. They've already announced a couple of propsed routes, most of which run through areas that are (currently) pretty rural within 100 miles east/west of I-35. In fact there were lots of people here in Dallas that were pissed when the proposed routes all went east of Dallas, rather than right through the middle like they had hoped it would.

My wife and I live in Dallas. My in-laws are in Austin and we used to live in San Antonio, so I am very familiar with this stretch of freeway through TX. I will say that this freeway is desparately needed. I-35 between Dallas and Mexico is one of the most heavily travelled sections of freeway in the US, and it only gets worse the farther south you go. Most of it is two lanes in each direction, and often not well paved or wide enough. There is an *enormous* amount of semi traffic hauling goods to and from Mexico. Traffic is always heavy. You can be stuck in a traffic jam at 2AM in the middle of nowhere or be crusing along at 85 with a 1/2 mile of cars ahead and behind you all within 10 feet of each other. The semi traffic makes it even worse because there is always some fool doing 50-55 and the trucks know that they have to force their way in to pass or they will never get around. Adding another freeway (or tollway as the case may be), or at least making massive improvements to the existing one is needed badly.

I hesitate to say that this highway would solve the problems, however, because the amount of traffic is only going to get heavier in the coming decades. I'd imagine that the "NAFTA Superhighway" would eventually be overwhelmed also. But I will say this to all of you who oppose this project: the cat is out of the bag and it can't be put back in. The amount of truck traffic on I-35 is increasing exponentially, and as more and more companies send low-paying, low-skill jobs to Mexico it isn't going to get any better. I would also challenge you to consider all the Mexicans who have held relatively well-paying jobs in that country for years as a result of NAFTA. Just something to thing about.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus


Also, what kind of security risks are there with this plan? Huge containers coming into Mexico and rushing right across our borders? Anyone see any potential problems with this?

Not if the UAE runs it.

Of course...the UAE!!! What was I thinking? We can trust them...after all, they're Arabs! It's not as though the Arabs have ever done anything to hurt the US...In fact, I think as an apology to Sadam for us invading his country for no good reason we should give him the country of Mexico to do with as he sees fit. :laugh:

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus


Also, what kind of security risks are there with this plan? Huge containers coming into Mexico and rushing right across our borders? Anyone see any potential problems with this?

Not if the UAE runs it.

Of course...the UAE!!! What was I thinking? We can trust them...after all, they're Arabs! It's not as though the Arabs have ever done anything to hurt the US...In fact, I think as an apology to Sadam for us invading his country for no good reason we should give him the country of Mexico to do with as he sees fit. :laugh:

If all Arabs are Saddam, can all white people be Hitler?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Patriot

Originally posted by: TheTony
I don't generally post in P&N, but saw a topic in OT before it was moved.

Nor do I, but here goes.

Originally posted by: TheTony
Call me a skeptic; while this may already be in the early stages, I don't think it (in its entirety) will be completed. Interstate 35W and 35E in Minnesota go through the hearts of Minneapolis and Saint Paul, respectively. The amount of right-of-way needed to create that wide of an expressway is staggering, just in this one metropolitan area.

The plans for this freeway are well underway. They've already announced a couple of propsed routes, most of which run through areas that are (currently) pretty rural within 100 miles east/west of I-35. In fact there were lots of people here in Dallas that were pissed when the proposed routes all went east of Dallas, rather than right through the middle like they had hoped it would.

My wife and I live in Dallas. My in-laws are in Austin and we used to live in San Antonio, so I am very familiar with this stretch of freeway through TX. I will say that this freeway is desparately needed. I-35 between Dallas and Mexico is one of the most heavily travelled sections of freeway in the US, and it only gets worse the farther south you go. Most of it is two lanes in each direction, and often not well paved or wide enough. There is an *enormous* amount of semi traffic hauling goods to and from Mexico. Traffic is always heavy. You can be stuck in a traffic jam at 2AM in the middle of nowhere or be crusing along at 85 with a 1/2 mile of cars ahead and behind you all within 10 feet of each other. The semi traffic makes it even worse because there is always some fool doing 50-55 and the trucks know that they have to force their way in to pass or they will never get around. Adding another freeway (or tollway as the case may be), or at least making massive improvements to the existing one is needed badly.

I hesitate to say that this highway would solve the problems, however, because the amount of traffic is only going to get heavier in the coming decades. I'd imagine that the "NAFTA Superhighway" would eventually be overwhelmed also. But I will say this to all of you who oppose this project: the cat is out of the bag and it can't be put back in. The amount of truck traffic on I-35 is increasing exponentially, and as more and more companies send low-paying, low-skill jobs to Mexico it isn't going to get any better. I would also challenge you to consider all the Mexicans who have held relatively well-paying jobs in that country for years as a result of NAFTA. Just something to thing about.

Youare correct. IH-35 in Texas is jammed.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus


Also, what kind of security risks are there with this plan? Huge containers coming into Mexico and rushing right across our borders? Anyone see any potential problems with this?

Not if the UAE runs it.

Of course...the UAE!!! What was I thinking? We can trust them...after all, they're Arabs! It's not as though the Arabs have ever done anything to hurt the US...In fact, I think as an apology to Sadam for us invading his country for no good reason we should give him the country of Mexico to do with as he sees fit. :laugh:

If all Arabs are Saddam, can all white people be Hitler?

No, the Germans are our friends now. After all, they gave us Porsche, BMW and Mercedes...surely that is enough to prove their loyatly to us right?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus


Also, what kind of security risks are there with this plan? Huge containers coming into Mexico and rushing right across our borders? Anyone see any potential problems with this?

Not if the UAE runs it.

Of course...the UAE!!! What was I thinking? We can trust them...after all, they're Arabs! It's not as though the Arabs have ever done anything to hurt the US...In fact, I think as an apology to Sadam for us invading his country for no good reason we should give him the country of Mexico to do with as he sees fit. :laugh:

If all Arabs are Saddam, can all white people be Hitler?

No, the Germans are our friends now. After all, they gave us Porsche, BMW and Mercedes...surely that is enough to prove their loyatly to us right?

I don't know...they charge a lot for pretty unreliable cars, also they weren't nice enough to provide us with FUEL for those cars. I say they are in league with mechanics and Arabs.

 

[judasmachine]

I have to laugh at the quotes in the OP. It's all a liberal conspiracy, then why are the republicans pushing it through? The truth is that both parties are guilty, they just share two differant approaches to the same totalitarianism.

 

[dmcowen674]

They should extend this massive highway straight to washington D.C.

 

[babylon5]

Extend this massive highway straight to washington D.C. -- exit right in front of Capitol Building, White House. Let's see how our Open Border Politicans will react with illegals loaded inside.

 

[judasmachine]

better yet route it through their own backyards, literally. imminent domain, it's a biatch.

 

[The Batt?sai]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Nafta Superhighway

This is a highly charged topic.

another great birdbrained bush idea

 

[EagleKeeper]

If they are going to run this from the border to KC; then use piggy-back or container rail cars.

Much more cost efficient in terms of fuel and time.

Build a decent frieght rail line (if not already existing), or upgrade the existing lines.
Drive the containers onto the trains and offload them in KC. Decent train marshalling yards exist in KC and/or move them onto the highways at that point.

Maybe allow a couple of stops (Dalls/OKC) before KC to allow some cargo to be loaded on/off.

The distance will reduce the human cargo aspects (no place to unload them).

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If they are going to run this from the border to KC; then use piggy-back or container rail cars.

THe plans calls for rail, dedicated truck lanes, pipelines, telecom and powerlines. It will have a little bit of everything.

 

[MadRat]

What railway gets the direct border to KC line, the old A&S?

 

[straightalker]

All the Superhighway is, ...is a way to cheaply bypass the higher labor costs of hiring American Union workers and truckers who work out of USA ports like Long Beach and Seattle. Mexicans will work at any pay rate just to survive in their trashed Country. A Country so trashed it has one of the very highest infant mortality rates in the World. In addition to probably the most polluted city. Mexico City. 20 million people who need to wear a hankerchief over their mouths and noses just to breath without gagging.

It's not a "Bush plan". You have to remember that just like the way Clinton was used, Bush is used. The dissolving of the USA into a Union with Mexico and Canada is the plan of the Globalists. Bush is just one of them.

In Mexico operating fleets of trucks is much cheaper as is everything else. Since they have no real environmental laws against pollution. Like China.

Mexoco. China. Indonesia. India. Cheap labor. No expensive environmental regulations to follow. Dirty globalist corporations just love it.

And hey. Why is all this shipping of stuff even nessessary? Because China has slave labor. So the USA transports all their factories over their. Requiring a return trip for the goods produced. Why not keep it all in the USA? Jobs for Americans. Made in America!

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: charrison

The plans calls for rail, dedicated truck lanes, pipelines, telecom and powerlines. It will have a little bit of everything.

. . . and where one stragetically placed hit takes it all down.

 

[Zebo]

Superhighway no biggie, just pitting you against third world wages, they still live you know.

OTOH I'm constructing a fallout shelter as Jorge Al-Bush lets Iran get nukes.

 

[straightalker]

PICTURE OF MAP - Hong Kong to Seattle

Referance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle

This illustrates yet another example of what a total globalist scam the NAFTA SUPERHIGHWAY really is. Most of you i'm sure realize that on a round Planet the shortest distance between two points is not drawn on a flat map. It's described as a "great circle" when we plot two distant points on a globe and connect those dots with a straight line.

So why not build a huge port facility in Seattle or Vancouver to recieve these Chinese slave goods? Answer? Because Chinese slave goods need Mexican slave dock workers and truck drivers and that dirt cheap Mexican transportation infrastructure to complete the scam.

If completed, the NAFTA SUPERHIGHWAY will destroy the jobs of hundreds of thousands of American workers. Not create more jobs as some here have suggested. How do you create more jobs for Americans with this? Makes no sense. The jobs are going to Mexico. A piece of soveriegn American soil in Kansas City is being transfered diplomatically to Mexico as their new soveriegn ground to build their new facility to manage the Mexican slaves working on this SUPERHIGHWAY.

Oh and all the funding of this International Corporate private venture has been shifted to the American taxpayers. Neat scam huh?