n0c tries window managers other than blackbox!

[n0cmonkey]

Between other projects I've been playing around with various Window Managers. Playing around can mean anything from installing, running once, and turning it off until I read more documentation, to using for long periods of time.

I'm playing with these on a Dell Inspiron 3800. It has a 600mhz p3 and 128MB of ram. I'm using OpenBSD 3.5-beta. On this machine I am also running: Apache 1.2.29, nagios (1.2), big sister (0.99b2), and sshd 3.8 (and sometimes, like today, freeciv server/client 1.13.0). On a side note, if anyone has suggestions for other free/open source network monitoring tools, shoot me a pm. I'm kind of evaluating a few of these too, and it could lead to a thread about them (in the Networking forum). My only requirements are that it has to run on Solaris and Linux (and I would prefer OpenBSD too, but that isn't a sticking point for the customer ). Anyways, enough of that tangent

I'm including version numbers along with each one. I'm probably not using the latest versions of anything, but I am using what was available through OpenBSD's ports when I last updated it. I'm not going to include numbers, like the amount of ram used, just my general impressions on speed. Nothing scientific, because I don't care about the scientific numbers. Just my user experience

Here are my thoughts, if anyone cares:

blackbox v0.65.0
Blackbox is what I normally use when I bother with X. I know the config and menu files. I customize it for hours until it is perfect for me. But it's boring. Playing with bbkeys helped a bit (and I love them now ), but it is still boring. It is has plenty of themes, and a legion of fanatical users (including myself). It runs on slow hardware, and considers itself very minimalistic. If I had to choose a WM to use on my sparcstation 10, this would be it. If I want flash, I look somewhere else. It uses sloppy focus by default, which is a good thing for me (my biggest complaint with Mac OS X and Windows GUIs ).

xfce4 v4.03.1
XFCE says it is a Desktop Environment. I don't know if that really fits, but I'm going to include it in my Window Manager thread.
It's slick. Looks great. It doesn't seem overly large, but quick and pretty. It does not use sloppy focus. Other than that, the default configuration is nice and I can easily add applications to the bar at the bottom. I used it for a couple of hours last night, and it felt comfortable enough. The default themes and colors aren't bad either. Over all, I can say I will be using this one again.

afterstep v1.8.9
Afterstep is pretty nifty. Fairly snappy, decent default configuration, and easy enough to play with. I don't like all of my applications appearing in the bar at the top. I like to have the applications listed when I am in that virtual desktop, not all of the total applications. But that is a minor point with me. I can't see using the bar at the top much anyways. It uses sloppy focus, and has some very basic color schemes. No themes installed though.

treewm v0.4.5
Here is an example of one I did not use much. It seems like a great concept. To quote from their home page: treewm is a window manager that tries to implement a new concept. In addition to the client windows the user can create desktops which can themselves contain windows and desktops. By arranging the windows in such a tree the user is able to manage his tasks efficiently. I'll definitely be reading the docs for this one to see if I can get it to do anything

Window Maker v0.80.2p1
It's simple, it's quick, I've got no complaints. It feels very basic. I can't remember if it uses sloppy focus by default, but it will be staying on the laptop for a while. It might even get some use. Over all, I think it is worth using, but probably won't give you flash if that is what you are looking for.

Waimea v0.4.0
I didn't use this one much either. The default install on my system seemed very spartan. No background picture, and a fairly small menu. I'll play with it again when I get time to read docs on it. treewm comes first though

evilwm v0.99.17
I didn't use this one much. Again, I have to read docs. Here is what is ays on their page: A minimalist window manager for the X Window System based on aewm. Maximises screen real estate while providing good keyboard or mouse control. I think it might be worth checking out though.

ratpoison v1.3.0rc1
I think this is almost the definition of minimalism. I managed to fall into an xterm (can't remember what the key combination is off hand ) and pulled up the manpage. Very sreen-like. It's interesting, and I'll definitely play with it further, but I don't know how much work I could get done with it. Most of the stuff I do just requires keyboard access, but right now a browser is important too. The mouse pointer does show up though, so this may not be a problem.

So there it is. A couple of words about a few Window Managers. Add your own comments, ask questions, go forth and multiply with yourself. I don't care. Good times.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

blackbox and ratpoison are pure bloat compared to aewm and evilwm

might be worthwhile to check out some of the window managers forked from / related to aewm: http://www.red-bean.com/~decklin/aewm/ (they are linked on the page)

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
blackbox and ratpoison are pure bloat compared to aewm and evilwm

might be worthwhile to check out some of the window managers forked from / related to aewm: http://www.red-bean.com/~decklin/aewm/ (they are linked on the page)

I'll have to check it out sometime, especially if ratpoison is bloated compared to them Evilwm looked interesting, but I didn't have time to read docs. I think I started compiling ports and went to bed

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

% wc -l aewm-1.2.3/src/*.{c,h}
1758 total

% wc -l evilwm-0.99.17/*.{c,h}
1989 total

% wc -l ratpoison-1.2.1/src/*.{c,h}
11984 total

% wc -l blackbox-0.65.0/src/*.{cc,hh}
18795 total

% wc -l waimea-0.4.0/src/*.{cc,hh}
19421 total

% wc -l openbox-3.0/openbox/*.{c,h}
21282 total

% wc -l fluxbox-0.1.14/src/*.{cc,hh} fluxbox-0.1.14/src/FbTk/*.{cc,hh}
28258 total

% wc -l metacity-2.6.3/upstream/tarballs/metacity-2.6.3/src/*.{c,h}
59909 total

% wc -l fvwm-2.4.16/fvwm/*.{c,h} fvwm-2.4.16/libs/*.{c,h}
63283 total


Since I had them all laying around

Oh, and lines of code is definitely not the only measure of bloat, but it is probably the one that bothers me the most, at least in an app I am really picky about (i.e. a window manager).

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
% wc -l aewm-1.2.3/src/*.{c,h}
1758 total

% wc -l evilwm-0.99.17/*.{c,h}
1989 total

% wc -l ratpoison-1.2.1/src/*.{c,h}
11984 total

% wc -l blackbox-0.65.0/src/*.{cc,hh}
18795 total

% wc -l waimea-0.4.0/src/*.{cc,hh}
19421 total

% wc -l openbox-3.0/openbox/*.{c,h}
21282 total

% wc -l fluxbox-0.1.14/src/*.{cc,hh} fluxbox-0.1.14/src/FbTk/*.{cc,hh}
28258 total

% wc -l metacity-2.6.3/upstream/tarballs/metacity-2.6.3/src/*.{c,h}
59909 total

% wc -l fvwm-2.4.16/fvwm/*.{c,h} fvwm-2.4.16/libs/*.{c,h}
63283 total


Since I had them all laying around

Oh, and lines of code is definitely not the only measure of bloat, but it is probably the one that bothers me the most, at least in an app I am really picky about (i.e. a window manager).

Got the source for KDE and gnome lying around?

 

[drag]

I use ratpoison on my laptop. It's nice, like a screen but for guis.


For the X apps I use a lot I installed a program called ratmen. It can use the mouse/vi style-buttons/direction button navagation.

It's simple you have a command line interface like this:

ratmen appname app appname2 app2 appname3 app3 etc etc.

then when you run the command you have a listing of appname's in a black box in the middle of your screen, you navigate up and down and press enter on the appname you want and it executes the app command. For submenus, I just have it execute another ratmen command that is populated with different set of commands.

Naturally I use scripts to keep the menus populated and orginizing and I have the menus nested in one another so that I can easily choose whatever application I want easily.

To call up the main menu script I have it mapped using normal ratpoison options to the "m" button. So that to call up the menu I go "control-t m". I also have the keyboard remapped so that the Capslock key is the control key now, and the original control key is the capslock key. Suprisingly the keyboard still lights up the capslock light when I press the original control key now, and capslock works properly.

For a browser i use Firefox with some tab extensions so that all new windows open up into tabs, so I don't have to shift back and forth thru different window "pages" (my term). That way you have "one window browsing" and just use the tabs.

The only stuff that sucks with it is stuff like Gimp were it opens up a billion different little windows for all the tools and options and stuff. That way it makes it a pain to manage 5-6 different "pages" to edit a photograph. Also apps like Xine that have a brain-dead method of menus that instead of having real menus it opens up a brand new window for each menu/submen to emulate the real behavior of menus. That way each menu option opens up right smack dab in the middle of the screen and makes it impossible to use them, which is very irritating. I suppose that's why we still have mplayer.

Other then that all windows behave naturally and the mouse functions correctly. 3d games like Quake3 or Cube can still grab full fullscreen control over the keyboard and mouse. Like screen you can divide up the screen realstate into half and forths. And even more then that, but my laptop resolution is to small to allow more then that.

 

[Megatomic]

And I'm stuck using CDE on HP-UX. (locked configuration in a control room)

 

[dpopiz]

thanks for the summary. I shall look at these when I have a little time

<added to last 20 post list so I'll remember about it>

 

[Sunner]

I've never quite understood the "charm" or usefullness of using the really really really minimalistic WM's such as Ratpoison or Evilvm.
Well, aside from the l33t-ness factor maybe

XFCE is minimalistic enough, if your computer can't handle that, I'd say it's time to hit EBay and find some $50 P2 or something.
Of course *Box, Afterstep, etc etc are perfectly good alternatives, just a matter of taste, it's just the extremes I don't quite understand.

Maybe I just didn't use them enough

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Sunner
I've never quite understood the "charm" or usefullness of using the really really really minimalistic WM's such as Ratpoison or Evilvm.
Well, aside from the l33t-ness factor maybe

XFCE is minimalistic enough, if your computer can't handle that, I'd say it's time to hit EBay and find some $50 P2 or something.
Of course *Box, Afterstep, etc etc are perfectly good alternatives, just a matter of taste, it's just the extremes I don't quite understand.

Maybe I just didn't use them enough

Get a sparcstation 10.

I'm thinking of netbooting mine. Use it as an X thin client or something. IIRC, the hard drive was the loudest part, and replacing that would probably be a pain since I think it uses 50 pin SCSI and I don't have any of those. Using a very minimal WM would be in my best interest (if I got it working at all).

 

[Sunner]

I actually got a Sparcstation 1+ and a Sparcstation 5, but I said no thanks to both of them, I don't have the room for them at home, especially now that I have my trusty Ultra 1

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Sunner
I actually got a Sparcstation 1+ and a Sparcstation 5, but I said no thanks to both of them, I don't have the room for them at home, especially now that I have my trusty Ultra 1

Ok, well my ss10 has a 36mhz cpu, 32MB ram, and I think an 8bit display. Using KDE wouldn't quite work out too well

 

[Nothinman]

You forgot enlightenment =)

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
You forgot enlightenment =)

No I didn't. It's not available via ports. Did .17 ever get released? I'll get around to installing it eventually, just didn't want to fiddle with it the other day

 

[Nothinman]

Still no E17, I believe work picked up again recently but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Still no E17, I believe work picked up again recently but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I've used E16 before. It was fine. Maybe when E17 comes out I'll try it again. If I don't get bored and install it before then.

 

[Flatline]

Enlightenment is pretty nifty; it kind of reminds me of the *box WMs with a few more bells and whistles. I switch around my WMs and DEs constantly, but I always seem to get back to fluxbox, blackbox, and enlightenment (although the gf requires KDE or Gnome, even though she thinks the others are "neat in a geeky kind of way"). One of these days I'll get around to playing with Waimeia and see whether I think it's worth the hardcore devotion some of its fans give it.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Eh, waimea has a lot of annoying bugs, and it has had zero development for well over a year now. I use it because I am so familiar with it, but only with some of my own tweaks

 

[drag]

Ratpoison rocks. Well for my laptop.

Using the pad is annoying and on my laptop I got it for screwing around with programming and such and using the mouse all the time is silly.

It's just more conveniet for me. Plus I have all the screen realistate for a program. I use all my programs at full screen size anyways so this isn't a problem, and is actually a strength. Instead of reaching up to the mouse all the time to shift thru the different windows/virtual desktops all the time, I just hit ^tn or ^tp to navigate. That way I don't loose my hand positions on the keyboard also.

On my desktop I Gnome + Openbox. Which is much nicer.

 

[civad]

I have given many of the wms a try, but I haven't gotten around to replacing fluxbox with anything else (for good) so far...
I think I might give ratpoison a second look..

 

[Sunner]

Good point on the pad, I hate pads.
Well, actually I don't like notebooks much at all, but if I have to use one, I make sure I have a proper mouse to go along with it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Touchpads rule. I hated them for a long time, but it's more convenient than a mouse when I'm out and about. I got used to it, and pretty much only use a mouse at work.

 

[Nothinman]

Same here, I can't stand nipple mice but touchpads are great.

 

[drag]

I like the eraser head much more then the mouse pad personally.

Our S/390 machine here has a fullsize keyboard with a erase head mouse stuck right their in the middle and the 2 mouse buttons on the bottom of the keyboard under the space bar.

I want a keyboard like that, but knowing IBM it probably costs 300 dollars and requires a yearly support contract for upkeep and maintanance.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Trying to use a nipple pointer makes me want to murder.