n00b car audio questions

[Special K]

I recently made my first car audio purchase - a JVC KD-HDR70 HU. I mainly bought it for the features, but it seems like the sound quality/power doesn't sound much different than my factory stereo did. I guess I was expecting to hear more of a difference. The JVC HU advertised 22W RMS - what does a typical factory stereo put out?

My question mainly concerns what additional upgrade(s) would give me the most improvement. Would buying new speakers make much difference? I called Crutchfield (same place I bought the HU) and the CSR recommended these:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SPS5...Brand%7cAlpine

Would adding those with no amp make much difference? If so, should I replace the front and back speakers, or is replacing the back speakers a waste?

I should also mention that right now, I'm using a factory setup of 6 speakers - 2 in the rear and 4 in the front. Does that mean that I should get a component speaker system so I can replace all 6 speakers in the car (or at least the 4 in the front?) I don't think they sell individual car tweeters, so doesn't that mean that if I don't buy the component speakers now, I would have to buy a set down the road in order to upgrade the factory tweeters that are in my car now?

The Crutchfield CSR said not to bother with a component setup unless you are also buying an amp, because most factory stereos and aftermarket HU's can't effectively drive a component speaker setup. Is that true?

 

[jlee]

What do you have for a car, and what audio system does it have stock?

Many component setups will be very happy to take much more power than a typical head unit can put out. Depending on your goals, you might be okay just running four speakers off your new head unit. On the other hand, you might not be happy 'till you have amp'd components and a subwoofer.

I actually have a set of Polk Audio db601 components and a 4x50w Rockford Fosgate amp that I'd consider selling, if you'd be interested and if they'd fit in your car. That was the old setup in my MR2 until I upgraded.

The forums broke your link - what's the model on the speakers?

 

[QueBert]

Alpine speakers tend to be power hungry, they might sound better than your stock, but if they do I definitely wouldn't say it would be a big difference. To properly push some decent 6x9's you need an amp. You don't have to spend a lot, you can get something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer...2157437&sr=8-1 it would make a world of difference. For the price I don't think anything can come close to touching that Infinity. It was around $300 when it came out.

For more you could get this Polk Momo amp, which sounds crazy nice.

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-4-C...0&sr=1-1-fkmr0

For 6x9's the Alpines you linked to sound really clean when ran thru a decent amp. No head unit will have anything above a crappy amp that works okay for stock speakers.

If you ever want to add a sub here's something to think about, they have some pretty good 5 channel amps. You could power your front/rear & sub all with a single amp.

 

[Zap]

I recently made my first car audio purchase - a JVC KD-HDR70 HU. I mainly bought it for the features, but it seems like the sound quality/power doesn't sound much different than my factory stereo did.

Why would it sound different? Maybe a tiny bit louder or more in control, but it should sound as close as possible to the source.

Speakers - capable of changing sound the most because, well, they physically produce what your ear hears!

Amplifier - they have to drive the speakers, so they can affect the sound by how accurately they drive the speakers and how well they control speaker movement without distortion.

Source - unless you use built-in equalizers to actively change what the sound sounds like, the source should just pass the audio along.

 

[CVSiN]

There is also alot more to good sound than slapping in those speakers and tossing in an amp..
Speaker enclosures also make a difference and alot of times from the factory they are not idea for higher end pieces.

Also Insulation/Dynamat makes a difference as well.
keeps the sound going the right direction and keeps vibes down..

There is alot to car audio and making it sound good..
be prepared to spend alot of money if you are an Audiophile.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I recently made my first car audio purchase - a JVC KD-HDR70 HU. I mainly bought it for the features, but it seems like the sound quality/power doesn't sound much different than my factory stereo did. I guess I was expecting to hear more of a difference. The JVC HU advertised 22W RMS - what does a typical factory stereo put out?

Stock head units have come a long way. A stocker's probably not much more than 8W, but a clean 8W is pretty good for mids and highs.

Would adding those with no amp make much difference? If so, should I replace the front and back speakers, or is replacing the back speakers a waste?

May or may not make much of a difference. Really depends on how good your factory speakers are. And it won't make as much of a difference as if you had an amp.

As for replacing the rear speakers... it depends. Usually rear deck would be worth it. Rear doors are iffy. When I ran my old Jimmy with MB Quarts off a 50x4 Fosgate, I was severely disappointed with the rear door speakers. I ended up disconnecting them and just screwing 6x9 enclosures to the top of my sub box with some $99 Kenwood 4-way's. MUCH better. (Although now I'm sitting here at 35 with hearing loss . 1100W into three 12W6's is especially not good on the ears)

I should also mention that right now, I'm using a factory setup of 6 speakers - 2 in the rear and 4 in the front. Does that mean that I should get a component speaker system so I can replace all 6 speakers in the car (or at least the 4 in the front?) I don't think they sell individual car tweeters, so doesn't that mean that if I don't buy the component speakers now, I would have to buy a set down the road in order to upgrade the factory tweeters that are in my car now?

Need to know more about your setup. If they're in parallel you'll need 8 ohm speakers. (which is what you'll get in a component setup)

The Crutchfield CSR said not to bother with a component setup unless you are also buying an amp, because most factory stereos and aftermarket HU's can't effectively drive a component speaker setup. Is that true?

Meh. A component setup designed for higher power may not be as sensitive as one for lower power (you can get away with more mass in the cone and you'll have more mass in the voice coil), but it's not something that'll give you sound quality issues.
They suggested you 88dB 5x7's, which is actually worse than most component speakers.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Also Insulation/Dynamat makes a difference as well.
keeps the sound going the right direction and keeps vibes down..

This.
If you're on the cheap, get some Quick Roof from Home Depot. 12 sq ft is like $18. Dynamat is $100.

 

[Special K]

What do you have for a car, and what audio system does it have stock?

2006 Ford Fusion - I'm not sure what brand the stock speakers are, and the stock stereo was Ford branded - I'm not sure who made it.

The forums broke your link - what's the model on the speakers?

Alpine SPS-517

 

[hanoverphist]

most aftermarket head units are pushing at least 22W RMS and 50 max per channel. while a speaker meannt for higher power systems will falter on that, there are plenty of types that will give a great sound. i have a mid level kenwood HU pushing 4 speakers, 2-way memphis in the front and components in the back. it is clear, loud and sounds good at high volume. this was in preparation to adding my planetaudio 300W amp and a 10" sub with a monoblock amp tho.

 

[0roo0roo]

2006 Ford Fusion - I'm not sure what brand the stock speakers are, and the stock stereo was Ford branded - I'm not sure who made it.



Alpine SPS-517

lol brand of stock speakers?
generic paper chinese cones


kinda like the earbuds that come with ipods..garbage.

you can hook them up to 10k worth of amps for all that mattered, it would sound like crap.

 

[Special K]

Alpine speakers tend to be power hungry, they might sound better than your stock, but if they do I definitely wouldn't say it would be a big difference. To properly push some decent 6x9's you need an amp. You don't have to spend a lot, you can get something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer...2157437&sr=8-1 it would make a world of difference. For the price I don't think anything can come close to touching that Infinity. It was around $300 when it came out.

Thanks for the recommendation.

For more you could get this Polk Momo amp, which sounds crazy nice.

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-4-C...0&sr=1-1-fkmr0

Thanks for the recommendations.

For 6x9's the Alpines you linked to sound really clean when ran thru a decent amp. No head unit will have anything above a crappy amp that works okay for stock speakers.

I'm confused here. What exactly do you mean by this?

If you ever want to add a sub here's something to think about, they have some pretty good 5 channel amps. You could power your front/rear & sub all with a single amp.

I assume it would be cheaper to buy a single 5 channel amp once than buy individual amps later on as you expand the system?

 

[Special K]

Why would it sound different? Maybe a tiny bit louder or more in control, but it should sound as close as possible to the source.

Speakers - capable of changing sound the most because, well, they physically produce what your ear hears!

Amplifier - they have to drive the speakers, so they can affect the sound by how accurately they drive the speakers and how well they control speaker movement without distortion.

Source - unless you use built-in equalizers to actively change what the sound sounds like, the source should just pass the audio along.

So upgrading the speakers alone would have a large impact on sound quality in my case?

I guess I thought I would get more bass and midrange from the increased power of the HU, and was somewhat disappointed by the result.

 

[Special K]

Need to know more about your setup. If they're in parallel you'll need 8 ohm speakers. (which is what you'll get in a component setup)

How would I figure this out?

Meh. A component setup designed for higher power may not be as sensitive as one for lower power (you can get away with more mass in the cone and you'll have more mass in the voice coil), but it's not something that'll give you sound quality issues.
They suggested you 88dB 5x7's, which is actually worse than most component speakers.

So would it be a bad idea to buy those Alpines I linked to without an amp? Would they sound bad unamped because of their sensitivity?

Also do you guys install amps yourself? I was comfortable installing the HU myself, but I've been reading about what's involved in a typical amp installation and I'm not sure I have enough confidence in my abilities to attempt that.

 

[0roo0roo]

So upgrading the speakers alone would have a large impact on sound quality in my case?

I guess I thought I would get more bass and midrange from the increased power of the HU, and was somewhat disappointed by the result.

Yes.

Feeding cheap weak speakers more power doesn't get you much of anything cept more bad sound


How much of an improvement depends on the dampening of the car to begin with, if you have a road noise leaking car the speakers have to fight over that noise floor, not good. It is why folks dynamat and such their doors and under the carpet sometimes as well, in any case if you can install a head unit, installing speakers is easy.

Extra amp can always be added later, in any case if you add an amp youd have to have new speakers anyways, so you might as well take this step first.

 

[Special K]

Yes.

Feeding cheap weak speakers more power doesn't get you much of anything cept more bad sound


How much of an improvement depends on the dampening of the car to begin with, if you have a road noise leaking car the speakers have to fight over that noise floor, not good. It is why folks dynamat and such their doors and under the carpet sometimes as well, in any case if you can install a head unit, installing speakers is easy.

Extra amp can always be added later, in any case if you add an amp youd have to have new speakers anyways, so you might as well take this step first.

Do those alpines I linked to above have too low of a sensitivity to be driven by my HU?

 

[DominionSeraph]

How would I figure this out?

Find a wiring diagram or trace them out.
But it's almost certainly parallel. I found a diagram for the 2010 Fusion with Sony premium package and the front components were parallel. (Series would complicate the wiring, anyway -- not something a car manufacturer would do)

So would it be a bad idea to buy those Alpines I linked to without an amp? Would they sound bad unamped because of their sensitivity?

Not bad, just not as loud as a more sensitive speaker, regardless of whether it's attached to a more robust amp.

Also do you guys install amps yourself? I was comfortable installing the HU myself, but I've been reading about what's involved in a typical amp installation and I'm not sure I have enough confidence in my abilities to attempt that.

Connections are stupidly easy. It's just routing the wiring that's the pain.
If you have a nice car it's better to let someone who knows what they're doing (and is insured) rip it apart.

 

[CVSiN]

This.
If you're on the cheap, get some Quick Roof from Home Depot. 12 sq ft is like $18. Dynamat is $100.

really that roofing stuff works?

 

[exdeath]

Audio systems are like electric guitars, a high quality amp is where you want to spend the money first. A good amp will make mediocre speakers liveable, but there is nothing you can do to make a shitty amp sound better.

 

[KIAman]

From experience, the amplifier makes the biggest difference in sound for a car.

When do you listen to music? When you are parked with the engine off or when you are commuting on the freeway going 80mph?

Good HU and good speakers contribute nicely to the sound but once you crank your speakers up past the ambient noise, the sound goes to absolute shit without something decent driving them and you'll wonder why you spent so much money on the HU and speakers.

Summary: You need something that can drive your sound past ambient noise cleanly. HU and speakers won't do that for you. Trust me, you won't be able to tell the difference between chinese paper cone speakers and high quality polycarbonate speakers when you turn them up and getting amp distortion. They will both sound like crap.

 

[DominionSeraph]

really that roofing stuff works?

Yup. It's great stuff.

 

[jlee]

Yup. It's great stuff.

How heavy is it? I'm wondering if it might be worth putting in the doors in my MR2...hate to put 50lb of stuff in there, though.

 

[DominionSeraph]

How heavy is it? I'm wondering if it might be worth putting in the doors in my MR2...hate to put 50lb of stuff in there, though.

It's got some heft to it -- that's why it works. Going off memory, I'd say it's around 15lbs for 12 sq ft. That should be plenty for both doors, since you don't have to cover them in the stuff. I just knock on the sheetmetal and put some wherever it sounds unsupported, and especially track down any buzz.
Two 2 foot by 6 inch strips, with a square behind the speaker should do the trick. That should leave you plenty for other troublesome areas, like the firewall and wheel wells.

 

[Smoove910]

You roof is where a lot of road/wind noise comes from... I used stuff called V-blok on my car. Paints on, but dries like cement.
http://www.cascadeaudio.com/automotive_audio_enhancement/dampers_for_cars.htm

The key is to make everything dense so no vibrations occur.

 

[jlee]

You roof is where a lot of road/wind noise comes from... I used stuff called V-blok on my car. Paints on, but dries like cement.
http://www.cascadeaudio.com/automotive_audio_enhancement/dampers_for_cars.htm

The key is to make everything dense so no vibrations occur.

rofl, I'm hopeless then. :awe:

 

[Special K]

So from reading the thread, it looks like an amp would be a better investment than a set of speakers at this point. Once I see how my factory speakers sound with an amp, then I can decide whether or not to upgrade those.

Would it make sense to just buy a 6 channel amp now, that way I won't have to worry about adding another amp in the future? 6 channels would allow for front speakers + rear speakers + a sub, correct?