N. Korea vs S. Korea Rnd 2 (update 3-6)

[Lemon law]

Vector in one US air craft carrier and also work with China, no one wants to see NK bite off more than it can chew.

Hopefully its nothing more than delusional saber rattling. But if it is not, SK is very vulnerable if NK tanks storm the DMZ, the SK capital is right next to the DMZ.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
NK I doubt would get anywhere. There are still thousands of US troops in the immediate area and of course it's watched closely with satellite for any troop movements. I'm positive that if they started to amass many by the border that the US would have ample time to do something about it.

I would do some reading. Our token force in SK could be crushed very quickly. It is only there to deter them, not for actual defense.


This is not good news.

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Skoorb
NK I doubt would get anywhere. There are still thousands of US troops in the immediate area and of course it's watched closely with satellite for any troop movements. I'm positive that if they started to amass many by the border that the US would have ample time to do something about it.

I would do some reading. Our token force in SK could be crushed very quickly. It is only there to deter them, not for actual defense.

This is not good news.

Token force? Are you serious?

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Elias824
There is an article on his supposed death. No one really knows though
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...sia/article4692472.ece

Also what is the difference in military power between N, and S Korea. During the war it was mainly china that gave the north an advantage, but I doubt they would help the 2nd time around.

North Korea has more man power.
North Korea likely couldn't conquer South Korea though.
But they've got enough artillery to annihilate its major cities. Old school weaponry like that is hard to stop.

The Western Allies had no answer for these tanks other than to drop a 1000 lb bomb on them.

I thought the typical allied response was more along the lines of pointing an artillery cannon at it (mounted on whatever they could manage at the moment) and blowing it away.
Though the tigers were such complicated pieces of machinery, there were apparently more lost to mechanical failures than Allied firepower.

Overrated, the FF's one claim to fame was killing Wittmann. Other than that, the FF was still a death toaster that was the #1 priority of Axis armor.

The Firefly actually faired better than the normal Shermans. Rather few were lost, probably due to their positioning away from the frontlines of the battle and typically in hidden positions. AFAIK, it was the only Allied vehicle on the Western front capable of taking down a tiger while also being present in large quantities.

Well, it might work for modern tanks, but the tanks from the '60s and '70s literally have no chance of penetrating a modern tank today, even from the side, even from the rear.

Haven't modern tanks been lost to handheld rocket launchers and land mines?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Skoorb
NK I doubt would get anywhere. There are still thousands of US troops in the immediate area and of course it's watched closely with satellite for any troop movements. I'm positive that if they started to amass many by the border that the US would have ample time to do something about it.

I would do some reading. Our token force in SK could be crushed very quickly. It is only there to deter them, not for actual defense.

This is not good news.

Token force? Are you serious?

CIA Factbook:


Fit for service military-age males for NK 5,141,240

As of 2001 1,003,000 active ground forces (wiki)




US Deployment in South Korea:

"the total number of troops declined by 5,000, to a total of 22,500 Army soldiers." Global Security.org



Yes, token.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JS80
yea but he wouldn't dare pull this shit under W. Carry a big stick and take a wack at the bitches.

This is a chance to show the world that we can indeed solve problems. I hope Obama has his ink and paper ready!

 

[EagleKeeper]

The ME and Obama are dominating the headlines.

Unacceptable to NK.

 

[fskimospy]

The question is not if we could defeat North Korea's army, or if North Korea could occupy the South. We could crush their army, and their logistical support is so poor at this point that they cannot operate outside of North Korea for any meaningful period of time, particularly in the face of certain US/SK attacks on their supply lines. The problem with a North Korean attack would be the amount of damage that they could do to Seoul and other parts of SK before they lost.

That all being said, it is exceedingly unlikely the North Koreans would pull anything like that. Their primary goal is the survival of the current regime, period. They will only engage in an armed conflict if they think the regime's survival is at stake, because they know as well as we do that once they open fire, the chances of their regime in NK being destroyed along with their army is quite high. This is yet another round of saber rattling that they engage in about every year in order to get more foreign aid to prop up their failing state. Sorry if I'm not impressed.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The question is not if we could defeat North Korea's army, or if North Korea could occupy the South. We could crush their army, and their logistical support is so poor at this point that they cannot operate outside of North Korea for any meaningful period of time, particularly in the face of certain US/SK attacks on their supply lines. The problem with a North Korean attack would be the amount of damage that they could do to Seoul and other parts of SK before they lost.

That all being said, it is exceedingly unlikely the North Koreans would pull anything like that. Their primary goal is the survival of the current regime, period. They will only engage in an armed conflict if they think the regime's survival is at stake, because they know as well as we do that once they open fire, the chances of their regime in NK being destroyed along with their army is quite high. This is yet another round of saber rattling that they engage in about every year in order to get more foreign aid to prop up their failing state. Sorry if I'm not impressed.

You are forgetting the bigger picture here Eskimo. It isnt just about NK. It is about NK's master.

The Chinese have a big interest in NK. As I'm sure you know, we were fighting Russian pilots in the Korean War.

The US may be over the whole cold war mentality, but the remaining communist countries are not.

And while it is unlikely that China would directly defend NK if they started an assault, they are our funding source. How could we afford such a disaster right now?

 

[irishScott]

Tactically we could own North Korea in an all out conflict. Two Words: Air Superiority. Against a conventional Army it's extremely effective. IIRC the carrier USS George Washington is in Japan now, and it carries about 70 aircraft, along with an additional 130 Fighters on Japan iteslf. We'd have air superiority within hours.

Combine that with about 40000 net Marines in Japan + SK and you have a very formidable defensive force. The South Korean military is nothing to scoff at either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_South_Korea

Available for military service: 12,483,677 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Fit for military service: 10,115,817 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Reaching military age annually: 344,943 (2005 est.)
Active personnel: 687,000 (ranked 6th)
Reserve personnel: 4,500,000

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The question is not if we could defeat North Korea's army, or if North Korea could occupy the South. We could crush their army, and their logistical support is so poor at this point that they cannot operate outside of North Korea for any meaningful period of time, particularly in the face of certain US/SK attacks on their supply lines. The problem with a North Korean attack would be the amount of damage that they could do to Seoul and other parts of SK before they lost.

That all being said, it is exceedingly unlikely the North Koreans would pull anything like that. Their primary goal is the survival of the current regime, period. They will only engage in an armed conflict if they think the regime's survival is at stake, because they know as well as we do that once they open fire, the chances of their regime in NK being destroyed along with their army is quite high. This is yet another round of saber rattling that they engage in about every year in order to get more foreign aid to prop up their failing state. Sorry if I'm not impressed.

You are forgetting the bigger picture here Eskimo. It isnt just about NK. It is about NK's master.

The Chinese have a big interest in NK. As I'm sure you know, we were fighting Russian pilots in the Korean War.

The US may be over the whole cold war mentality, but the remaining communist countries are not.

And while it is unlikely that China would directly defend NK if they started an assault, they are our funding source. How could we afford such a disaster right now?

China has a slightly closer economic relationship with the US than they did in say 1950. NK is a backwards hell hole that gives them nothing besides illegal immigrants and a semi-convenient prod in the region. If NK initiates I think the Chinese will be more than content to sit back and relax while the US/SK pummel it out of existence.

China holds about 20% of our foreign owned public debt. Overall foreign ownership of US public debt is only about 25% of the entire total.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Tactically we could own North Korea in an all out conflict. Two Words: Air Superiority. Against a conventional Army it's extremely effective. IIRC the carrier USS George Washington is in Japan now, and it carries about 70 aircraft, along with an additional 130 Fighters on Japan iteslf. We'd have air superiority within hours.

Combine that with about 40000 net Marines in Japan + SK and you have a very formidable defensive force. The South Korean military is nothing to scoff at either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_South_Korea

Available for military service: 12,483,677 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Fit for military service: 10,115,817 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Reaching military age annually: 344,943 (2005 est.)
Active personnel: 687,000 (ranked 6th)
Reserve personnel: 4,500,000

Not good enough. The North could breach the DMZ very quickly. They have arty ready to decimate the border. It would be a human-wave assault.

50K troops in Japan are no comfort if you are in Seoul.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
He's just doing it to try and get more concessions out of the new administration and the international community. Even he knows that a war would be a BAD idea for his country. Obama and other world leaders should stick to their current positions and not change one iota. We shouldn't be putting up with this crap.

yea but he wouldn't dare pull this shit under W. Carry a big stick and take a wack at the bitches.

Well, actually they did, not this exact move, but they did wave the big nuke stick around, waited for Condi to show up, write them a check for a few million (or was it billion) and then go about thier merry way.

Whatever happened to "Millions* for defense, but not a sixpence for tribute!"? Seriously, F*** North Korea and this "diplomacy" game. They want ransom. Call their bluff. Better now than later.

*trillions+ in today's dollars, but who's counting? 😛

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The question is not if we could defeat North Korea's army, or if North Korea could occupy the South. We could crush their army, and their logistical support is so poor at this point that they cannot operate outside of North Korea for any meaningful period of time, particularly in the face of certain US/SK attacks on their supply lines. The problem with a North Korean attack would be the amount of damage that they could do to Seoul and other parts of SK before they lost.

That all being said, it is exceedingly unlikely the North Koreans would pull anything like that. Their primary goal is the survival of the current regime, period. They will only engage in an armed conflict if they think the regime's survival is at stake, because they know as well as we do that once they open fire, the chances of their regime in NK being destroyed along with their army is quite high. This is yet another round of saber rattling that they engage in about every year in order to get more foreign aid to prop up their failing state. Sorry if I'm not impressed.

You are forgetting the bigger picture here Eskimo. It isnt just about NK. It is about NK's master.

The Chinese have a big interest in NK. As I'm sure you know, we were fighting Russian pilots in the Korean War.

The US may be over the whole cold war mentality, but the remaining communist countries are not.

And while it is unlikely that China would directly defend NK if they started an assault, they are our funding source. How could we afford such a disaster right now?

I really don't think I am. The reason China entered the Korean war was largely to exert influence in the region after the Chinese civil war. They had no functional relationship with the US (as we didn't even recognize that they existed), and having US/UN troops on their borders in multiple locations was a strategic threat that the ultra-paranoid Mao wasn't going to go for.

Currently the US relationship is China's single most important one. They will do almost anything they can to keep it generally positive outside of a few national honor/fuck you things. Considering how vital we are to their economy, the current state of their economy (growth declining) and the corresponding unrest that this has generated, scrapping the US/China relationship due to North Korea launching an invasion of South Korea simply isn't going to happen.

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: irishScott
Tactically we could own North Korea in an all out conflict. Two Words: Air Superiority. Against a conventional Army it's extremely effective. IIRC the carrier USS George Washington is in Japan now, and it carries about 70 aircraft, along with an additional 130 Fighters on Japan iteslf. We'd have air superiority within hours.

Combine that with about 40000 net Marines in Japan + SK and you have a very formidable defensive force. The South Korean military is nothing to scoff at either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_South_Korea

Available for military service: 12,483,677 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Fit for military service: 10,115,817 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Reaching military age annually: 344,943 (2005 est.)
Active personnel: 687,000 (ranked 6th)
Reserve personnel: 4,500,000

Not good enough. The North could breach the DMZ very quickly. They have arty ready to decimate the border. It would be a human-wave assault.

50K troops in Japan are no comfort if you are in Seoul.

So you think 1M N. Koreans are suddenly going to pop up at the border without anyone noticing they moved there?
As far as the "token force" goes, you need to step away from simple numbers and consider what "force" is there. I happen to believe our F-16s (at least 40) and A-10s right there at Osan would easily wipe out plenty of troops before they even got a round off. As those units are taking care of business, the others from Kunsan would be there in minutes to join the fight, with units from Japan not far behind. Let's not forget the Navy is there with plenty more fire power.. Army is also there to fight and defend from the ground. Oh, can't forget the S. Koreans also have a pretty good military. One that is far more advanced and better equiped than N. Korea. We also have plenty of defense systems in place at Osan. That is their primary mission after all: "DEFEND THE BASE".
Of course, those NK troops need to travel 50 miles before they even reach us, and I don't see N Korea trucking them all there.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

So you think 1M N. Koreans are suddenly going to pop up at the border without anyone noticing they moved there?
As far as the "token force" goes, you need to step away from simple numbers and consider what "force" is there. I happen to believe our F-16s (we have at least 40 there) and A-10s right there at Osan would easily wipe out plenty of troops before they even got a round off. As those units are taking care of business, the others from Kunsan would be there in minutes to join the fight, with units from Japan not far behind. Let's not forget the Navy is there with plenty more fire power.. Army is also there to fight and defend from the ground. Oh, can't forget the S. Koreans also have a pretty good military. One that is far more advanced and better equiped than N. Korea. We also have plenty of defense systems in place at Osan. That is their primary mission after all: "DEFEND THE BASE".
Of course, those NK troops need to travel 50 miles before they even reach us, and I don't see N Korea trucking them all there.

Well I think it is fairly well conceded that in any war with North Korea, Seoul is going to be decimated. They simply have too much firepower concentrated already within range of it not to do some pretty heavy damage to the city.

Like I said, it's not a question of who will win, but how much damage North Korea does on its way out.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: irishScott
Tactically we could own North Korea in an all out conflict. Two Words: Air Superiority. Against a conventional Army it's extremely effective. IIRC the carrier USS George Washington is in Japan now, and it carries about 70 aircraft, along with an additional 130 Fighters on Japan iteslf. We'd have air superiority within hours.

Combine that with about 40000 net Marines in Japan + SK and you have a very formidable defensive force. The South Korean military is nothing to scoff at either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_South_Korea

Available for military service: 12,483,677 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Fit for military service: 10,115,817 (2005 est.), age 15?49
Reaching military age annually: 344,943 (2005 est.)
Active personnel: 687,000 (ranked 6th)
Reserve personnel: 4,500,000

Not good enough. The North could breach the DMZ very quickly. They have arty ready to decimate the border. It would be a human-wave assault.

50K troops in Japan are no comfort if you are in Seoul.

So you think 1M N. Koreans are suddenly going to pop up at the border without anyone noticing they moved there?
As far as the "token force" goes, you need to step away from simple numbers and consider what "force" is there. I happen to believe our F-16s (we have at least 40 there) and A-10s right there at Osan would easily wipe out plenty of troops before they even got a round off. As those units are taking care of business, the others from Kunsan would be there in minutes to join the fight, with units from Japan not far behind. Let's not forget the Navy is there with plenty more fire power.. Army is also there to fight and defend from the ground. Oh, can't forget the S. Koreans also have a pretty good military. One that is far more advanced and better equiped than N. Korea. We also have plenty of defense systems in place at Osan. That is their primary mission after all: "DEFEND THE BASE".
Of course, those NK troops need to travel 50 miles before they even reach us, and I don't see N Korea trucking them all there.

Well to tell the truth I could actually see them mass-tunneling under most of the DMZ. NK is probably the only country in the world crazy enough and brainwashed enough to actually do it. 😛

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: AFMatt

So you think 1M N. Koreans are suddenly going to pop up at the border without anyone noticing they moved there?
As far as the "token force" goes, you need to step away from simple numbers and consider what "force" is there. I happen to believe our F-16s (we have at least 40 there) and A-10s right there at Osan would easily wipe out plenty of troops before they even got a round off. As those units are taking care of business, the others from Kunsan would be there in minutes to join the fight, with units from Japan not far behind. Let's not forget the Navy is there with plenty more fire power.. Army is also there to fight and defend from the ground. Oh, can't forget the S. Koreans also have a pretty good military. One that is far more advanced and better equiped than N. Korea. We also have plenty of defense systems in place at Osan. That is their primary mission after all: "DEFEND THE BASE".
Of course, those NK troops need to travel 50 miles before they even reach us, and I don't see N Korea trucking them all there.

Well I think it is fairly well conceded that in any war with North Korea, Seoul is going to be decimated. They simply have too much firepower concentrated already within range of it not to do some pretty heavy damage to the city.

Like I said, it's not a question of who will win, but how much damage North Korea does on its way out.

That was along the lines of my point. In an "all-out war" with NK, we would come out ahead. This would be at the expense of thousands of US Soldiers and who knows how many South Koreans.

This is something I do not think we are ready for. Just like when China decides to take Taiwan back, I hope we back out of our treaty.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: AFMatt

So you think 1M N. Koreans are suddenly going to pop up at the border without anyone noticing they moved there?
As far as the "token force" goes, you need to step away from simple numbers and consider what "force" is there. I happen to believe our F-16s (we have at least 40 there) and A-10s right there at Osan would easily wipe out plenty of troops before they even got a round off. As those units are taking care of business, the others from Kunsan would be there in minutes to join the fight, with units from Japan not far behind. Let's not forget the Navy is there with plenty more fire power.. Army is also there to fight and defend from the ground. Oh, can't forget the S. Koreans also have a pretty good military. One that is far more advanced and better equiped than N. Korea. We also have plenty of defense systems in place at Osan. That is their primary mission after all: "DEFEND THE BASE".
Of course, those NK troops need to travel 50 miles before they even reach us, and I don't see N Korea trucking them all there.

Well I think it is fairly well conceded that in any war with North Korea, Seoul is going to be decimated. They simply have too much firepower concentrated already within range of it not to do some pretty heavy damage to the city.

Like I said, it's not a question of who will win, but how much damage North Korea does on its way out.

The very fact that we know about their art emplacements more or less assures that they'll be the first things taken out the moment they open up. Seoul itself also goes through it's share of air-raid/bombardment drills. It'd fare better than most people think IMO.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: irishScott

The very fact that we know about their art emplacements more or less assures that they'll be the first things taken out the moment they open up. Seoul itself also goes through it's share of air-raid/bombardment drills. It'd fare better than most people think IMO.

They will be the first things taken out. Unfortunately our estimates put as many as 10,000+ pieces that we have to destroy. Ten thousand or more artillery pieces can cause an awful lot of damage in a very short period of time.

I'm sure that the South Koreans have taken extensive steps to minimize casualties in the event of a war, it doesn't mean that the city will not sustain large scale damage.

 

[Arkaign]

It's all Obama's fault!!!

<--- lol j/k, but just throwing that out there, it seems the trendy thing to do.

 

[ccryder]

The last report I read on a NK invasion was 5 or 6 years ago, authored by US generals, and it predicted NK troops in Seoul in a matter of hours, the NK offense finally slowed around the 37th parallel, with the U.S. use of conventional nuclear weapons. The SK strategy was not offensive in nature, but included retreat and the destruction of SK bridges and highways behind them to slow the NK advance, and although I may be mistaken, some bridges are maintained prewired with explosives for this scenario. It was not a rosy report, and hopefully things have changed.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: ccryder
The last report I read on a NK invasion was 5 or 6 years ago, authored by US generals, and it predicted NK troops in Seoul in a matter of hours, the NK offense finally slowed around the 37th parallel, with the U.S. use of conventional nuclear weapons. The SK strategy was not offensive in nature, but included retreat and the destruction of SK bridges and highways behind them to slow the NK advance, and although I may be mistaken, some bridges are maintained prewired with explosives for this scenario. It was not a rosy report, and hopefully things have changed.

It sounds like the report was outdated even when you read it.

South Korean actually has one of the most powerful armies in the world today, with close to around 3,000 tanks among other pieces of equipment. While they used to be more outdated tanks like upgraded versions of the M48 and M47, today they have already to a great degree been replaced by tanks which are quite modern and capable. South Korean's K2 tank which should enter service in the next couple years can make a serious argument as being the most capable tank in the world at that point. By contrast, North Korea's tank force consists of T-62s and the bulk of the force still being T-55 tanks. (The number actually represents the model year those tanks first came out in Soviet service.)

South Korea simply has an increasingly massive equipment quality advantage in their favor.

Seoul would get really hurt by longer ranged artillery, but the North Korean ground forces wouldn't get very far and and certainly wouldn't actually take Seoul.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Smart move as we load troops, tanks, and trucks onto ships headed home from Iraq. Next stop SK.

I dont think the NK has the technology or training to be a serious threat. The days of swarming your enemy are done. Plus I bet if the SK troops offered bread in exchange for surrender it would be a success.

But all joking aside I dont see NK being able to take SK. Especially if we can get troops on the scene in a matter of days. If anything I could see China taking an opportunity to crush a pita and show a little military force in the region at the same time.

North Korea has enough artillery pointed at Seoul, SK alone to flatten it with conventional artillery. Even if we did a pre-emptive strike on over a thousand artillery locations it would not stop there ability to turn Seoul, SK into a wasteland. North Korea is extremely dangerous... If you got some kamakazi mentality in the leadership over there it could start WW3.

But for South Korea, a more immediate danger may be North Korea's artillery.

The capital Seoul, only 60 km (37 miles) south of the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone that has divided the peninsula since the end of the Korean War in 1953, has long been within range of one of the world's most powerful artillery batteries.

South Korea's Defense Ministry said the North had amassed more than 13,000 pieces of artillery and multiple rocket launchers, much of it aimed at Seoul.

Jane's International Defense Review estimates that if North Korea launched an all-out barrage, it could achieve an initial fire rate of 300,000 to 500,000 shells per hour into the Seoul area -- home to about half the country's 48.5 million people.

The biggest are 170-mm self-propelled artillery guns and 240-mm multiple rocket launchers. It also has hundreds of Scud missiles that could hit any part of South Korea.

North Korea is also thought to have been working to attach chemical and biological weapons to its long-range artillery.

http://www.boston.com/news/wor...esent_danger_to_south/

Most of North Korea's artillery is hidden in the forest and fortified into the land. It would be an impossible task for the U.S. to take them all out unless they dropped a nuke big enough to wipe all of north korea out... (which is impossible because they would destroy half of SK with it and not to mention nuclear fallout). Rumor has it that North Korea has potentially some nuclear tipped artillery. Its just about impossible to stop artillery from impacting its targeted area once fired.

 

[kage69]

Yep, right on cue Kim Jong Il decides to recalibrate the attention factor back towards the Korean peninsula. Given the sorry state that country has been in since losing that Old Russian Cloak, it's an amazing show of gall. Last 2 wars in Iraq were cold buckets of water in the face of regimes like North Korea. I'm sure that pudgy lil bastard has nightmares in 'munition transmission format.' "TLAM! Nooorrrrr11!!!

I hear a lot of people giving props to the South Korean military, and that's a good thing. ROKs are badass, make no mistake. South Korea is a land of cutting edge technology too, this alone counts for a lot when added to their progressive views on military tactics (robotics, etc) Their military is modern, well trained and motivated. Trained reserves are beefy as well.

As many have already noted, the sheer number of huge bore artillery pieces pointing at Seoul is the main issue here. Whooole lot of people gonna die. The US presence at the Korean DMZ is one similar to the one maintained in Germany, i.e. 'the speed bump that gives you the excuse to go full-throttle' concept. I forget the actual DoD estimate, but the time it would take to level Seoul is measured in minutes I believe, and that's just with normal munitions. If a regime tests brews of chemical and biological agents on political prisoners, then you can pretty much expect a version of their use if this regime ever feels like "it's now or never."

The NKs are hard people. Unless you're talking about a select few, NKs get by without amenities most of us couldn't live without (food being just one) and know scarcity and hardship every day of their lives.
Then some of them train for war and are psychologically groomed to fight with the utmost hate.

Yes their tanks are outdated, yes they aren't equipped like our guys, but remember that it's the man before the weapon, not the other way around.
If it comes to war I don't think it will be a cake walk like some are guessing. Far from it, in fact even in the best case scenario (short of a coup anyway) where the UN actually would stand up and just say "look, you have to go" and gets unanimous support (i.e, China and Russia pitching in) I still think it would be a hard fight. That country has been in a state of constant fortification enhancing and preparation. Even with their meager military budget that says something. It's population is kept mind washed and locked up, and in a constant state of fear over invasion. And then there's Stalin's popular "Quantity has a quality of it's own" aspect to it all. Yikes.




I hope this is the just the little man throwing another tantrum, but part of me thinks we're due a naval encounter any day now so Kim can underscore his point to the world. I fear that Kim, famous for his tastes in all things Western, has been paying attention and noticed that we have anti-mortar technology being deployed. He knows, or has been told anyway, that it's only a matter of time before the same concept is tweaked and improved thus making it effective with artillery. Combined with the surgical strikes the US is now famous for (depending on who you talked to I suppose) it could mean Kim won't have the Seoul Hand to play, or least not all of it. This is where things get scary...