Mythbusters to take on "the plane and the treadmill" conundrum?

[Amused]

Folks, the wheels merely have to be able to spin at twice their normal speed for takeoff.

Something over-designed aircraft landing gear could probably handle easily.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: jimbob200521
Plane Answer

^For those who have signatures turned off...

ah but that is assuming there is no friction between the plane and the treadmill. Wheels maybe low friction but they aren't frictionless.

Very true, but the amount of speed required to counter the plane's thrust would be so great that the treadmill would most likely fail before it got there, not to mention the wheels on the plane and many other things I'm sure I can't think of right now.

BUT assuming that the treadmill could move that fast and nothing mechanical would fail, doesn't the original problem state that the treadmill moves in the opposite direction at the same speed the plan is moving forward? That means the treadmill would not move at the speed needed to stop the plane...

And to address your point of the friction that would be applied, although I can not state it as a fact, I highly doubt that that friction would be enough to make any real difference on the planes movement.

If the treadmill is only moving backward at the same speed as the plane then it definitely takes off. I really dont even remember the original question at this point.

 

[nweaver]

die......


if you haven't figured this out yet, then I vote for a ban

 

[OOBradm]

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: OOBradm

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: jimbob200521
Plane Answer

^For those who have signatures turned off...

ah but that is assuming there is no friction between the plane and the treadmill. Wheels maybe low friction but they aren't frictionless.

so the plane needs a little more thrust than usual? it'll still take off, once it reaches the right velocity

But what if the treadmill was going backwards faster than the plane could push forwards? If the treadmill was moving fast enough the friction between the wheel and the jet would keep it from moving. I realize the wheels would just snap off at some point but then the plane would just fall on the tread mill and and definitely wouldn't take off.

I hope we both agree if there was 0 friction then all the force generated by the jets/propellers would go towards moving the plane forward.

Now, you're saying - but what about friction??

Friction will only take away a percentage of the thrust, and all the leftovers would still go towards moving the plane forward. If the friction took away all the force, then the plane wouldn't move even on normal ground!

 

[foghorn67]

I'm not going to read the replies, but can someone answer me on this?

Most planes need airflow over the wings to take off.
How would you get around that?

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: foghorn67
I'm not going to read the replies, but can someone answer me on this?

Most planes need airflow over the wings to take off.
How would you get around that?

hahah. Its cause the wheels spin freely so the treadmill going backwards wouldn't be more negative force on the plane than the positive force of the jet thrust.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

So on tha tnote, why don't they have treadmills on aircraft carriers? That would be interesting huh? =P

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
So on tha tnote, why don't they have treadmills on aircraft carriers? That would be interesting huh? =P

cause it wouldn't make any difference. The plane still has to go just as far if not further.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: DLeRium
So on tha tnote, why don't they have treadmills on aircraft carriers? That would be interesting huh? =P

cause it wouldn't make any difference. The plane still has to go just as far if not further.

I realized that as I pushed "Reply." Maybe I shoulddo an edit to not look so stupid =P

 

[MasonLuke]

ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

 

[kthroyer]

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

LOL

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: OOBradm

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: OOBradm

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: jimbob200521
Plane Answer

^For those who have signatures turned off...

ah but that is assuming there is no friction between the plane and the treadmill. Wheels maybe low friction but they aren't frictionless.

so the plane needs a little more thrust than usual? it'll still take off, once it reaches the right velocity

But what if the treadmill was going backwards faster than the plane could push forwards? If the treadmill was moving fast enough the friction between the wheel and the jet would keep it from moving. I realize the wheels would just snap off at some point but then the plane would just fall on the tread mill and and definitely wouldn't take off.

I hope we both agree if there was 0 friction then all the force generated by the jets/propellers would go towards moving the plane forward.

Now, you're saying - but what about friction??

Friction will only take away a percentage of the thrust, and all the leftovers would still go towards moving the plane forward. If the friction took away all the force, then the plane wouldn't move even on normal ground!

Wrong. First off all forces don't go towards moving things, they go towards accelerating things. Second for the plane to take off it must both provide enough force to accelerate the plane to take off speed and accelerate the angular velocity of the wheel to take off speed.

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

nice troll to get things started up again.


If a plane had skis and was on ice, would it not take off because there's no grip for the plane to take off? is this what you're saying?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: loic2003

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

nice troll to get things started up again.


If a plane had skis and was on ice, would it not take off because there's no grip for the plane to take off? is this what you're saying?

Skies are nothing like wheels because as you may notice they don't rotate.

 

[MasonLuke]

i love it how you kids add or change the assumptions.

kids, dont be retards. thank you.

 

[jimbob200521]

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

Well aren't we going about this in a mature way...

The main flaw in your "logic" (and I use that term loosely) is that the plane would move forward. The THRUST from the engines THRUST the plane forward. THE WHEELS HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (unless the treadmill can produce and equal amount of FORCE, NOT SPEED, to counter the planes movement, that is).

And thank you for the kind PM on the subject, btw.

 

[MasonLuke]

Originally posted by: loic2003

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

nice troll to get things started up again.


If a plane had skis and was on ice, would it not take off because there's no grip for the plane to take off? is this what you're saying?

stupid is what stupid writes

 

[Phokus]

If a plane and a treadmill crash in a forest, does it make a sound?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

Well aren't we going about this in a mature way...

The main flaw in your "logic" (and I use that term loosely) is that the plane would move forward. The THRUST from the engines THRUST the plane forward. THE WHEELS HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (unless the treadmill can produce and equal amount of FORCE, NOT SPEED, to counter the planes movement, that is).

And thank you for the kind PM on the subject, btw.

Ok you figure out what is required to make your answer correct now show that a treadmill turning wheels does not apply a force to the plane?

 

[Phokus]

why don't we just email a phycisist and/or aerospace engineer and ask them for the damn answer?

 

[MasonLuke]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

Well aren't we going about this in a mature way...

The main flaw in your "logic" (and I use that term loosely) is that the plane would move forward. The THRUST from the engines THRUST the plane forward. THE WHEELS HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (unless the treadmill can produce and equal amount of FORCE, NOT SPEED, to counter the planes movement, that is).

And thank you for the kind PM on the subject, btw.

no problem.

the basic assumption was that the treadmill moves in the exact opposite direction as the wheels. when the plane tries to go forward, it cant because of this "treadmill" And if the plane cannot move forward, it will NOT FLY. PERIOD.

 

[kthroyer]

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

MasonLUke,

1. Please read this post without any animosity.
2. Your logic would apply if we were talking about a wheel driven vehicle.
3. The force that drives an airplane forward is not the wheels.
4. The propeller(s) or jet engines apply the forward thrust, the wheels spin freely, at whatever speed the plane is travelling in relation to the ground or treadmill.
5. The friction between the wheels and the axle will slow down the airplane, but not near enough to make a difference in the overall speed of the airplane. This is assuming that the treadmill cannot move at speed approaching the speed of light.
6. Think about a rollerskate on a treadmill, if you hold the rollerskate from behind with your finger, and turn on the treadmill. You can push the skate forward pretty easily. This is the same principle involved here.

Take a second to think about it. If you are not trolling, I'm sure it will make sense.

Have a pleasant day.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: kthroyer

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

MasonLUke,

1. Please read this post without any animosity.
2. Your logic would apply if we were talking about a wheel driven vehicle.
3. The force that drives an airplane forward is not the wheels.
4. The propeller(s) or jet engines apply the forward thrust, the wheels spin freely, at whatever speed the plane is travelling in relation to the ground or treadmill.
5. The friction between the wheels and the axle will slow down the airplane, but not near enough to make a difference in the overall speed of the airplane. This is assuming that the treadmill cannot move at speed approaching the speed of light.
6. Think about a rollerskate on a treadmill, if you hold the rollerskate from behind with your finger, and turn on the treadmill. You can push the skate forward pretty easily. This is the same principle involved here.

Take a second to think about it. If you are not trolling, I'm sure it will make sense.

Have a pleasant day.

No that is not the same principal because the treadmill does not increase its speed to compensate for you pushing harder.

 

[kthroyer]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: kthroyer

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

MasonLUke,

1. Please read this post without any animosity.
2. Your logic would apply if we were talking about a wheel driven vehicle.
3. The force that drives an airplane forward is not the wheels.
4. The propeller(s) or jet engines apply the forward thrust, the wheels spin freely, at whatever speed the plane is travelling in relation to the ground or treadmill.
5. The friction between the wheels and the axle will slow down the airplane, but not near enough to make a difference in the overall speed of the airplane. This is assuming that the treadmill cannot move at speed approaching the speed of light.
6. Think about a rollerskate on a treadmill, if you hold the rollerskate from behind with your finger, and turn on the treadmill. You can push the skate forward pretty easily. This is the same principle involved here.

Take a second to think about it. If you are not trolling, I'm sure it will make sense.

Have a pleasant day.

No that is not the same principal because the treadmill does not increase its speed to compensate for you pushing harder.

See number 5.

 

[jimbob200521]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
ok kids, i never explained why the plane wont fly, because to me, it seems so obvious. listen kids, i will say this once and once only.

1.plane turns on trust/power to go forward in order to fly.
2.it cant move forward because when the wheels start to turn, the treadmill turns in the equal and opposite direction.
3.in order for a plane to fly, it needs movement of the plane. plane doesnt move bc of 2
4.air over/under wings creat life. no lift because plane is not moving.

kids, the key here is the plane is always standing still. the more power that is used, the faster the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction keeping the plane in the same place. you ever see a plane take off without a runway besides the harriers? no. no. no.

this is final and anyone who doubts are not BAI, but rather fvking retards.

Well aren't we going about this in a mature way...

The main flaw in your "logic" (and I use that term loosely) is that the plane would move forward. The THRUST from the engines THRUST the plane forward. THE WHEELS HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (unless the treadmill can produce and equal amount of FORCE, NOT SPEED, to counter the planes movement, that is).

And thank you for the kind PM on the subject, btw.

Ok you figure out what is required to make your answer correct now show that a treadmill turning wheels does not apply a force to the plane?

I did not say, or at least did not mean to say, that the treadmill does not apply any force to the plane. The point I was getting at is that the treadmill, in the way that the original problem was stated, would not apply enough force to counter the plane's forward movement.

For those that say that the plane would not take off, do you realize that you are saying that a plane is driven via it's wheels?