Mysterious hangs, now it looks like loss of mouse, keyboard

[sonoferu]

XP Pro SP3

For months now, once or twice a week I come to my computer, first in the morning or after work, and the sleep state wont wake up. I can wiggle the mouse, click, hit any key, C-A-D, nothing wakes it up So I hit the reset button on the case. Medium size pain in the ...

Now I think I know what's happening but have no idea what it means. I was using it, just plain using it and suddenly the mouse froze, keyboard did nothing, it was as if I had pulled out the mouse and keyboard so nothing can be done.

So I am pretty sure that's whats been happening when I come in and it won't wake up. It doesnt detect my mousing/keyboard inputs so of course it doesnt wake up.

What does it mean if BOTH mouse and kbd just plain stop their inputs??

thx

 

[Bubbaleone]

Open Device Manager (run as Administrator), and expand "Universal Serial Bus controllers".

Right-click USB Root Hub and then click "Properties".

In the USB Root Hub Properties dialog box, click the "Power Management" tab.

Remove the check from the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" check box.

Repeat for each USB Root Hub listed in the Device Manager.

Reboot.


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[sonoferu]

guess not. Tried it and rebooted, went off for a while. Came back to find my floating/rotating text screensaver frozen on the screen, and mouse/keyboard dead.

Your idea was that the usb's where they are plugged in were shutting down?

Alas ... but thanks for the suggestion. This is a pain

 

[Bubbaleone]

The first test was to see if reinstalling the drivers for the Root Hubs alone would solve it. Next step is to again expand "Universal Serial Bus controllers", right click on each USB device listed, and select "Uninstall". Ignore warnings to reboot, uninstall everything, then reboot. Be sure no other USB devices besides mouse and keyboard are connected, when performing this step.

 

[sonoferu]

OK, but when I uninstall all of them, how will I get out? I wont have a keyboard or mouse to do anything?

Uninstalling - do you mean that when it boots it will find them and reinstall? Asking because I dont know.

Also a curious thing which I forgot about, havent thought of this for years. The keyboard is my old favorite from long ago and it is NOT a USB, it's the old style, whatever it is called. A round plug into a round hole with pins.

So if the problem is one of the USB's, how would the keyboard be dead, would not the keyboard work to wake it up when I come in?

Rookie questions

 

[Bubbaleone]

OK, but when I uninstall all of them, how will I get out? I wont have a keyboard or mouse to do anything?

Uninstalling a device in Device Manager edits the registry. No changes occur until you reboot.

Uninstalling - do you mean that when it boots it will find them and reinstall? Asking because I dont know.

Yes.

Also a curious thing which I forgot about, havent thought of this for years. The keyboard is my old favorite from long ago and it is NOT a USB, it's the old style, whatever it is called. A round plug into a round hole with pins.

The PS/2 connector is a 6-pin Mini-DIN connector used for connecting some keyboards and mice to a PC compatible computer system. Its name comes from the IBM Personal System/2 series of PCs, with which it was introduced in 1987.

So if the problem is one of the USB's, how would the keyboard be dead, would not the keyboard work to wake it up when I come in?

Verify this setting: open Device Manager, expand Keyboards, right-click and select Properties, click the Power Management tab, then select "Allow this device to bring the computer out of standby". Do this at the same time you uninstall all USB devices, then reboot.

Make sure your BIOS Power Management settings are set to S3 standby. For detailed info on S3 see: S3 Standby Done Right



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[sonoferu]

Uninstalling a device in Device Manager edits the registry. No changes occur until you reboot.

I have 7 USB Root Hubs showing in DM. When I uninstalled the 4th one the mouse froze up. Sounds like uninstalling did make a change

Still, after reboot they all were "Found" and set up again

And the keyboard already WAS set to "Allow this device to bring the computer out of standby". So it should have, right?

Actually I wonder about the Power Options in Control Panel. I have had it set to monitor off in 30 minutes, disk off in 45, standby in one hour. Before I posted here I left the monitor at 30 and changed the others to Never. So .... how did they go into standby anyway? With the monitor off, which has always been reliable at 30, how do I know what the state is later?

In any case, with standby and disk set to Never, it still froze up overnight. I was making what I thought was a reasonable guess when I saw the mouse/keyboard freeze up in the middle of a live session once, but that is still just a guess, no matter how reasonable.

I have 4 USB ports, by the way, on the motherboard, 2 pairs, and a separate USB card with 4 more, which makes me wonder how that makes for 7 Root Hubs.

If one of the USB ports is the cause, it would be nice if just identifying it and not using it any more would be the answer here

thanks for staying with this

 

[Bubbaleone]

Verify the BIOS Power Management S3 setting first (Read the link I posted so that you know what S3 does) Standby has to be enabled prior to disk off.

If uninstalling USB devices disables the mouse; shutdown, connect a PS/2 mouse, reboot and then uninstall USB.

 

[Bubbaleone]

....I have 4 USB ports, by the way, on the motherboard, 2 pairs, and a separate USB card with 4 more, which makes me wonder how that makes for 7 Root Hubs.

If one of the USB ports is the cause, it would be nice if just identifying it and not using it any more would be the answer here...

These two utilities: USBView and USBDView should help you sort out your USB configuration.


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[styrafoam]

How old is the computer? I have seen faulty usb ports as an early sign of a motherboard dieing from faulty capacitors on more than one occasion.

 

[sonoferu]

OK, I will prove my rookie status.

I shut down and went to BIOS and had no idea where to look for Power Management. Finally looked up ACPI and found that must be it, right?

But inside there is no S3 option, so I looked that up and found on Wikipedia

S3: Commonly referred to as Standby, Sleep, or Suspend to RAM. RAM remains powered

So in my BIOS there is a "Suspend to RAM" option that offers Power Off / Auto. I am guessing I set it to Auto?

And a couple of other comments

Standby has to be enabled prior to disk off.

Meaning I should set standby to happen BEFORE disk off? So

monitor 30
standby 45
disk off 1 hour

would be ok?

and

If uninstalling USB devices disables the mouse; shutdown, connect a PS/2 mouse, reboot and then uninstall USB.

I realized I could use the keyboard to navigate and finish up. doh

and

How old is the computer?

6.5 years now. I was hoping it would last forever

 

[sonoferu]

Another followup curiosity

Make sure your BIOS Power Management settings are set to S3 standby. For detailed info on S3 see: S3 Standby Done Right

That site said among other things

If you are lucky, your computer might already be configured properly to enter S3 Standby mode. Why don’t you check and see. Click your standby button (Start – Shutdown – Standby). Now, once the computer is in standby, check the fans on your computer. Are they still spinning? If so, you are not taking full advantage of S3 standby mode. S3 standby mode turns off all the components inside your system except the memory


But I have mine set to what <I think> is S3 and the fan still spins in standby, whether I call for standby or let it time out to standby ....

???

 

[Bubbaleone]

Assuming you've followed through on the suggested generic XP fixes thus far, and are still experiencing the same problem, it would be helpful if you'd list the specific mother board mfg./model#, and which XP service pack you're running. Do you have the XP Pro installation CD and a valid key or COA?


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[Zaap]

How old is the computer? I have seen faulty usb ports as an early sign of a motherboard dieing from faulty capacitors on more than one occasion.

THIS.
Before driving yourself nuts, crack the case and check the mobo throughly for blown or bulging capacitors. At least rule it out. I've seen it a million times, and all the same sort of seemingly random mayhem it causes.

 

[sonoferu]

I have tried the steps given, correctly as far as I know. It hasnt hung since, but it sometimes goes a week without. Hope and intermittency go hand in hand

This is XP Pro / SP3, on an ASRock Dual-SATA2. I dont know model # detail more than that. I put it together myself but that was the first and only time I ever tried, and got LOTS of help from this forum ...

I dont have the install disk. I worked for a company back then that had a group XP license, and since I worked from home a lot they let me install with one of their licenses here. It was accepted so I presume that is valid. But I dont have the key here any more and would not get it, the company has gone under.

And this will REALLY prove my rookie cred. Bulging capacitor? What size/shape/color of thing do I look for?

 

[Bubbaleone]

Glad you're running again. One last step for some preventive maintenance; open a Command Prompt and run chkdsk.

At the Command Prompt type: chkdsk C: /x /v /f /r (then press Enter)

When asked to schedule for next restart, type: Y (then press Enter)

At the next blinking cursor type: exit (then press Enter) to close the Command Prompt window.

Restart the PC and chkdsk will automatically run prior to booting into Windows. No keyboard input is required from you. Be patient; this will take some time depending on the size of the HDD.

See Pics of bulging blown capacitors for examples of what to look for on your mobo, to see if that's even an issue.


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[styrafoam]

And this will REALLY prove my rookie cred. Bulging capacitor? What size/shape/color of thing do I look for?

The first ones to die are almost always the ones in the area next to the atx power plug on the motherboard. Follow the bundle of wires from the power supply to where it plugs into the mainboard and look at the caps in that general area. Bad ones will be "puffy" or even burst on the top or tilted slightly to the side from having burst on the bottom. A good one will be completely flat, if you look through those images you will see a couple of comparison photos of good and bad ones. The age of your computer puts it squarely in the time line when pretty much every computer sold had this problem.

 

[sonoferu]

Guess I would have to say ... bulging caps it is. After looking at the pics, it was pretty clear with a flashlight [at a small angle, not direct overhead] that 5 of them are bulging. Looking at the diagram in the mobo manual, one is just above the ULI M1567 chipset [heat sink over it], one below the third RAM slot, and a tight cluster of 3 at the lower end of the first RAM slot. No sign of corrosion, but a definite gentle belly-out curve to them.

So time for new, yes?

And I have done chkdsk in the past, so at least that I know. But I didnt mention that the first time I did the BIOS to set to S3, it restarted with an odd sequence - about 10 minutes of shutting down Windows [normal is well under a minute], then at restart it ran chkdsk, but unlike what I am used to - the long slow progress with the % counter and all. It was a handful of rather quick checks whose names I didnt know, and I cant take a screen shot or copy text and I couldnt find a pen and paper and cant remember now. In any case it was an odd one, and finally the restart stalled so long that I gave up and left -- I had to be somewhere. It was finished when I got back, but it had sat there at "Loading your personal settings" for at least 15 minutes. Since then all has been ok, but jeez, that was odd

BTW, is there such a thing as a laptop that will run dual monitors? I'm thinking thats the way I may go. It was kind of fun back then to buy the parts and put my own together, but I have no serious need to do that for fun again, and back then I was poor and now have more money than time and headspace. Laptop would have some advantages but not if it wont do 2 monitors.

Thanks to all for your help

 

[styrafoam]

Its hard to say how long the board will go on working, could be weeks, could be months. You will probably start to see random bluescreens/shutdowns before it completely gives up. The caps can be replaced by someone who is handy with a soldering pen, but unless you are really attached to the comp then i would probably just use it as an excuse to upgrade.

For the laptop, most come with vga and hdmi out. If you want to run 2 external monitors you will need to have ones with inputs to match. Some higher end models(ones with dedicated video cards) will also come with mini displayport out. If you have a specific setup (laptop x plus monitors y & z) you want to run you should probably ask in the video forum before you spend any money to be 100% certain.

 

[sonoferu]

OK

thanks all, this seems to resolve the mystery