My Uncle was racist, but was he bad? YART

[Emos]

Great posts by Hayabusa and Geosurface to start out this thread. Nice to see some thoughtful consideration of the subject (before, as usual, it all went downhill.)

Agreed. Growing up in rural NE Ohio, I have known several extended family members and acquaintances with the mindset of Hay's uncle...would use the N word if discussing cultural politics or seeing crime news on TV but would literally give the shirt of their back to an actual flesh-and-blood person regardless of color if they were in need.
When I was a young teen I remember heading over to someones house for the first time (I briefly met the woman previously) and an aunt took me aside beforehand and said "She is married to a black man, will you have a problem with that?" I remember feeling sadness at that, first because it was a question that had to be asked (early 80s) and that it might be assumed that I harbor those feelings. Anyhow, they were a lovely couple but I could not but help to notice that a family friend who I assumed was a flaming racist (would use the N word constantly and I remember not liking him much because of it. Before questions are asked why I let it slide, first I was a kid at the time and secondly this dude was a biker, some of my uncles and their friends were part of biker culture FWIW) was actually at the gathering and was talking and hanging out with this black gentleman like they were best buds! Needless to say, mind blown!

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Agreed. Growing up in rural NE Ohio, I have known several extended family members and acquaintances with the mindset of Hay's uncle...would use the N word if discussing cultural politics or seeing crime news on TV but would literally give the shirt of their back to an actual flesh-and-blood person regardless of color if they were in need.
When I was a young teen I remember heading over to someones house for the first time (I briefly met the woman previously) and an aunt took me aside beforehand and said "She is married to a black man, will you have a problem with that?" I remember feeling sadness at that, first because it was a question that had to be asked (early 80s) and that it might be assumed that I harbor those feelings. Anyhow, they were a lovely couple but I could not but help to notice that a family friend who I assumed was a flaming racist (would use the N word constantly and I remember not liking him much because of it. Before questions are asked why I let it slide, first I was a kid at the time and secondly this dude was a biker, some of my uncles and their friends were part of biker culture FWIW) was actually at the gathering and was talking and hanging out with this black gentleman like they were best buds! Needless to say, mind blown!

yea blacks call each other n****r all the time

 

[brandonb]

My dad was very racist against blacks. I remember asking him when I was a child, be it 7-10 years old. Why didn't he like blacks? I don't even remember his answer, but it was something like "Because they are black"...

A friend of mine was married to a woman who was also very racist against blacks. I remember asking her why. She said "because they are black."

I remember bringing up both of these people to another friend of mine, who is also very racist, and he called them both idiots. He said people who hate for no reason are just stupid. On the other hand, he defended his racism with reasons why he was racist. And he said doesn't ever judge anybody one on one. He only stereotypes the group as a whole based on their behavior. Saying that stereotypes exist for a reason, and then compared groups of people to breeds of a dog. Saying pitbulls are generally more aggressive, retrievers like to swim in water, etc and saying people are the same.

My guess is the uncle is sort of like the last one I just mentioned. Maybe judged them collectively rather than individually.

 

[Emos]

yea blacks call each other n****r all the time

Umm the guy who I was talking about was a Caucasian biker!

 

[Darwin333]

People consider me racist because I hate muslims and think even if they are not actual terrorists, they support their terrorist heroes. I also don't think they should be allowed to immigrate to Canada or ever travel through Canada until this whole Islam thing is destroyed.

But that's safety and a healthy hate against your enemy is a good thing.

I don't consider myself racist because I like other cultures like the Japanese, the Chinese. I'm neutral on blacks though. I like Obama and a lot of black music but the people's culture... well if they really did build pyramids maybe. But I don't believe that, every country controlled by blacks is a Shit hole. Every neighbourhood where blacks are dominant, I wouldn't dare walk through.

To have anything other than a positive opinion seems to label you as a racist. So be it.

Just thought that I would let you know that "Muslim" isn't a race.

 

[SheHateMe]

So basically, some of you come from shitty families populated with racists and bigots. Good to know. Helps to respond to your posts in the future whenever race is brought up since I already know what your perspective is.

 

[Steeplerot]

I would have left home asap if I had to deal with assholes like that. How do you all condone such people? This is how racism/rationalization works and is passed down through codependency.

The responses here are very telling. No wonder. It's like the abusive alcoholic dad the older brother sticks up for. Creepy. Get some self esteem and call out fucked up people. If you cannot depend on family, then who is going to do it?

If you ever in your life sit someone down and talk about the strawmen that make us racist rationalizations, its family. Not many other people will have the influence to pierce the ego's self defense mechanism (and that only works occasionally -if the person is capable of being honest with him/herself)

 

[Emos]

So basically, some of you come from shitty families populated with racists and bigots. Good to know. Helps to respond to your posts in the future whenever race is brought up since I already know what your perspective is.

For what it's worth, I believe that I'm very sensitive to racial and socioeconomic inequities and have been called to the carpet in other threads where I agree with your positions more then disagree!

 

[Emos]

I would have left home asap if I had to deal with assholes like that. How do you all condone such people? This is how racism/rationalization works and is passed down through codependency.

The responses here are very telling. No wonder. It's like the abusive alcoholic dad the older brother sticks up for. Creepy. Get some self esteem and call out fucked up people. If you cannot depend on family, then who is going to do it?

If you ever in your life sit someone down and talk about the strawmen that make us racist rationalizations, its family. Not many other people will have the influence to pierce the ego's self defense mechanism (and that only works occasionally -if the person is capable of being honest with him/herself)

To be honest, when it comes down to it I said nothing even though I was a kid at the time. I knew it was wrong and made me feel uncomfortable but didn't say anything. If some of you want to call me a coward yes it's true and I own it

EDIT: I just try to live my life the best way possible and to never judge a person until I get to know then as an individual, so I guess I learned from it, that and having a severe speech disfluency back then let me know first hand what it's like to be judged and dismissed for something beyond my control.

 

[Steeplerot]

To be honest, when it comes down to it I said nothing even though I was a kid at the time. I knew it was wrong and made me feel uncomfortable but didn't say anything. If some of you want to call me a coward yes it's true and I own it

It shouldn't be up to children to teach adults. But then kids know when it comes to these things since they have not been indoctrinated yet by a unhealthy culture to assume the obvious contradictions are just "the way it is" and resigned themselves.

You cannot blame yourself for the past, but you can change the world by not falling for easy solutions/justifications and being a good person from a personal level first.

The fact that you are not about excuse making shows you rose above and took the tougher road. May your path lead by example then.

 

[Steeplerot]

yea blacks call each other n****r all the time

The way humans cleanse/digest old racism and personal/cultural bias is through irony and humor. (peacefully, there is always genocide but I am not gonna go there)

Them calling themselves this is a FU to a culture and society based/founded on racism. (although most just do it because others are)

The best way to deal with others insanity is to laugh at them to show them how absurd they are.

A lot of racism is peer related. Remove the rewards of "fitting in" and the rationalizations become far less attractive.

Notice how fast people drop the bullshit when surrounded by people they judged before.

Racism is a farce. Humans by nature are territorial, but understand shared interests when put into a situation.

The OPs dad's story is a good example in this case.

If you are dealing with a sociopath type, I dunno. Thats a whole other story. These people need help/a big dose of reality.

 

[Geosurface]

I grew up in a family that was strongly anti-racist, my mother raised my brother and I to value liberalism, education, evolution, women's rights, gay rights, and we were taught white guilt very strongly. Movies that called attention to the suffering of minorities at the hands of whites were treated with great reverence, and were seen as important for us to watch and absorb the message of.

My mother is still that way, my brother is.

In later years, I learned that my father, who I saw less frequently and who I didn't get into deep political or philosophical discussions with until into my 20's, was an atheist like myself but unlike me he was fairly homophobic and seemingly a bit racist. It wasn't entirely clear how racist, he had black friends and such but he seemed to have a dislike for Obama, despite being a lifelong democrat himself, which I couldn't attribute to anything but racism.

In 2008 I was telling him (before Obama got the nomination) how I wanted it to be Obama, or Hilary, then when Hilary did some nasty campaign tactics when it was down to just the two of them which I felt were racist, I strongly rejected Hilary and her tactics just solidified my support for Obama even more. I actually was excited about Obama before most people knew his name, back with his electrifying speech at the 2004 DNC, I kept track of him from then on. I was one of those people in 2004, and moving forward from then, actively hoping he'd run and be elected.

Make no mistake, a big part of why I wanted it to be either Hilary or Obama was that they would represent a dramatic change, progress, etc. I had a lingering fondness for the Clintons also.

My next door neighbor as I grew up was a black man married to a white woman and he and I were very good friends. I was a child then a teen, while he was very well into his adulthood, but in the absence of my own father he took me under his wing in a few instances, built me a club house in my backyard, showed me how to pour a concrete floor for it. He was a construction guy and he always had a tool if I needed to borrow it, he kept dobermans and when I got my first and only dog at 13, he made sure we didn't take it inside covered in fleas and ticks. We'd bought it from a farm outside of town and it would've been disastrous. He brought a big wash basin and dog shampoos, flee killing shampoos, etc, and helped us in our driveway. He died of cancer in 2002 and I attended his funeral and I cried for his loss.

My mother's best friend's sister, whom she lived with, was married to a black man and they had 3 half-black half-white children. A daughter and two sons. I grew up playing with them, on occasion, it wasn't frequent. Every month or so maybe I'd end up seeing them from like age 8 maybe on to late teens. My first crush may have been on their daughter. Memory fails a bit. She and I walked together at our high school graduation ceremony.

I pushed my father to vote Obama, and to warm to him. Now, he's warmer to him than I am. He's had some progress on his homophobia thanks to Rachel Maddow whom he loves to watch every time her show is on.

I seem to be going in the other direction... the Trayvon case was the spark. It raised my attention to some things I'd always perceived about people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the mainstream media. I became extremely disgusted with how Huffington Post, and The Young Turks, and MSNBC were covering it. Ignoring key evidence, drumming up a racial narrative. These were my absolute top, favorite news sources before this happened.

It soured me on my fellow liberals, it got me thinking about black on white crime, it got me looking up statistics which all confirmed things I'd always intuitively or anecdotally understood. They were figures and statistics I'd brushed with before, but filed away. They were intuitive understandings I had worked so hard to suppress.

When I joined the Navy, which was before this happening... I expected to deal with a lot of idiot conservatives, and there were plenty of conservatives. They weren't as dumb as I'd assumed. This helped lay the groundwork. There were a lot of intelligent, informed conservatives and it got me thinking. Some of their arguments got through to me to some degree. Two of the best friends I made while in the Navy were black guys. One of whom I drove through Manhattan traffic and nasty parts of New Jersey to get him to where the Navy could ship his car to Hawaii where he was being stationed, I was going to Washington state. I drove him many places before he got that car, we hung out a lot, he was a very intelligent, nice, well mannered guy. The other black guy I became fast friends with was a computer gaming nerd like me. Great guy. Wish I was still in touch with them.

As it stands now I am no longer voting Obama again. I may or may not vote Romney.

I wouldn't call myself racist now, I'd just call myself aware and fed up. I'm fed up with the permissive attitude in the black community about violence and criminality, especially that directed at whites or any non-blacks. I'm tired of the "stop snitchin'" attitude and the knockout king game and 12% of the population committing so much of the crime. I'm aware of some of the historical reasons for certain things we see today... and I'm done giving a shit and done making excuses.

Black people who share my values, are more than okay with me. If anything, I enjoy befriending them even more than white people who share my values. That's not who I'm talking about. My only beef with them is they aren't numerous enough.

So it's not about hating blacks.

It's about being sick of what a disturbingly large percentage of the black community is like. I've heard plenty of black people, comedians or more serious commentators... express the same sentiment. Responsible black people are sick of what black culture is like. I'm with them.

And frankly I do think there may be a genetic basis for some of the differences we see in populations... whites and asians underwent an agricultural revolution, that selects for certain traits, certain impulse control, planning, different breeding strategies, conflict resolution, etc than groups who didn't undergo the same selection pressures. That's just how nature works, and I've seen a lot of data to support this.

Plus, there is neanderthal and denisovan genetics within all population groups except sub-Saharan Africans. That's right, genetic mixture from what we consider to be a different SPECIES, existing in all but one racial group today.

What's the significance of that? Just this, there are real, genetic differences between populations. They faced different selection pressures, in different environments, and we shouldn't be shocked when they exhibit differences.

So in other words, there are absolutely brilliant, fantastic black people, there are absolutely white people who are complete criminal pieces of shit. It is just that from a genetic perspective, from a realist, fact-based, natural-selection perspective... we should not expect the PERCENTAGES of each type of person, to be the same in each group. That's a distinction many have trouble wrapping their minds around, but reality does tend to be complex.

 

[Steeplerot]

That's right, genetic mixture from what we consider to be a different SPECIES, existing in all but one racial group today.

This is utterly untrue pseudo-science from racists. You have been very misled.

Genetically Speaking, Race Doesn't Exist In Humans


http://wupa.wustl.edu/record_archive/1998/10-15-98/articles/races.html

"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," Templeton said. "Evolutionary history is the key to understanding race, and new molecular biology techniques offer so much on recent evolutionary history. I wanted to bring some objectivity to the topic. This very objective analysis shows the outcome is not even a close call: There's nothing even like a really distinct subdivision of humanity."



The difference you see is poverty, lack of education, and cultural isolation. There are socioeconomic reasons for all this, the "gangster mentality" has been encouraged by the corporate establishment for whatever reasons.

Take you pick as to their motives. Personally I see it as a short sighted profit motive thing.

Whats funny is that for all the racist/sexist gangster records sold, like 75% of them are sold to white suburban kids. Once again showing corporate America will eat its own for that $. If the african American community is kept in the background, all the better to be used as cultural stereotypes to sell more junk under the guise of whats "hip" because it comes from the "ghetto".

It's a self perpetuating cycle of fail and destructiveness. But then the white establishment was scared shitless in the early 80s as the african american community was not buying into the game anymore.

One thing corporate America and capitalism itself is good at, emulating that which threatens the status quo to package it into bland tasteless garbage to keep profits/society playing its game. (asking questions and realizing how bad the little guy is getting screwed is bad for profits short term)

This is why we don't have "movements" anymore. We have "labels" compartmentalized and divided into neat little packages for consumer cultural consumption.

 

[SheHateMe]

what's the significance of that? Just this, there are real, genetic differences between populations. they faced different selection pressures, in different environments, and we shouldn't be shocked when they exhibit differences.

o rly?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So basically, some of you come from shitty families populated with racists and bigots. Good to know. Helps to respond to your posts in the future whenever race is brought up since I already know what your perspective is.

What shitty people are related to you?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

o rly?

As you say you are a minority you might consider giving a considered opinion on the subject at hand. People are going to say thing that we disagree with, but that's in the nature of a discussion, not the purpose of having one, which in this case is an exploration of a facet of how humans react to race in word and deed and that they do not always match up as people are more complex than that. You may have a constructive perspective to add to what has been said so far.

 

[yllus]

That's a very interesting anecdote. I think it makes sense - most people are principled (even when it's evil principles like racist leanings) intellectually, but emotionally they instantly relate to everyone else on Earth who bleeds red blood. You have to have your ideology top of mind or to have really let that ideology define you not to commiserate with your fellow man due to politics, gender or race.

 

[SheHateMe]

What shitty people are related to you?

Oh, I have uncles, cousins, etc who are pretty crappy people..but none of that was because they were racist. It's because they have terrible personalities, are selfish, mean-spirited,etc.


One of my Uncles died last year and I did not feel sorry. I didn't go to his funeral and I didn't go and see him in the hospital. Why? Because all he did to me when I was growing up was bully me, pull my hair, tell me I was ugly/stupid/etc. When he was diagnosed with Congestive Heart Failure and died a slow death, I didn't shed a tear. In retrospect, I wasn't being any better than he was..but thinking back, there was no way in hell I was going to go and visit him and shed tears when he made me feel worthless.


And I separate myself from those types of people...

Even if I had a racist uncle, I wouldn't be telling people not to judge him as a racist because hes REALLY a nice guy..as long as you're black and injured.

As you say you are a minority you might consider giving a considered opinion on the subject at hand. People are going to say thing that we disagree with, but that's in the nature of a discussion, not the purpose of having one, which in this case is an exploration of a facet of how humans react to race in word and deed and that they do not always match up as people are more complex than that. You may have a constructive perspective to add to what has been said so far.

Nothing I could ever say here from my perspective as a minority would matter. As the guy stated above, we blacks have a culture that teaches us to be nothing. You all are obviously set in your ways and it is not my job to convince some of you that there is no fucking "culture" in the black community teaching certain blacks to be bad people, we aren't genetically different from everyone else, etc.

What I have to say doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. You guys continue on with your discussion.

 

[Geosurface]

This is utterly untrue pseudo-science from racists. You have been very misled.

Genetically Speaking, Race Doesn't Exist In Humans

With all due respect, I have paid a great deal of attention to this topic for a long time, not always with the mindset I have now, but I have always been interested in evolution, genetics, etc. I can't claim expertise, but I am very aware of the issue.

I believe the pseudo-science is that which says that "human races don't exist" or "race is a social construct" and this should be obvious even without having to look at hard data. Why would natural forces which lead to differences in average height, skin color, hair type, eye color possibilities, genital size, center of gravity, rate of twin births, voice depth... etc etc etc, (things which nobody denies because they are immediately visible at a glance in most cases) why would such natural forces somehow be magically prohibited from acting on behavior and the brain?

There is no way or reason they would be. Nature doesn't do equality, and nature didn't give the human brain a "get out of natural selection free" card at the moment populations diverged.

It is a fact that neanderthal and denisovan genes are still within some populations, and not others. That is a genetic difference right there.

It is a fact that you can find out a person's lineage, even down to things they were unaware of... by testing their genetic sequence. I STRONGLY encourage you to watch the PBS show "Finding Your Roots" hosted by Henry Louis Gates (the professor Obama went to bat for) - it is very illuminating in this regard. If "genetically speaking, human races don't exist" such a show WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE. Nor would it be possible for CSI technicians to determine the race of an offender based on finding semen or blood alone.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/finding-your-roots/

and here is Steven Pinker talking about the myth of the blank slate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuQHSKLXu2c

So, why do I believe what you mentioned is the real pseudo-science? What motive would there be for people to falsely assert that race is a social construct or genetically meaningless if the scientific data doesn't support it?

Well, whenever there is an incentive for certain views to be reinforced by "science", rest assured you will get such support cropping up. Financial incentives ensure that some percentage of scientists (thankfully small) will deny climate change.

Political and societal pressures, which are a much, much more prevalent force in this case, where the MAJORITY want to hear race isn't real or meaningful, will ensure that "science" surfaces to back this up.

Why did Steven J. Gould lie about his measurements of skulls? To protect peoples' feelings. To sustain the current religion of diversity and political correctness.

For those brave enough to seek it, and open-minded, the science is clear.

 

[blankslate]

He was ignorant. In the neutral sense of the word. Everyone has some innate prejudices. These prejudices are generally born out of ignorance or lack of information about those things a person is prejudiced about.


However more information and being exposed people from different backgrounds should allow people to largely set aside their prejudices or at least be aware of them and try to let go of them as much as possible.


If you want to hold on to those prejudices and adopt racist attitudes after being exposed to people from different backgrounds as you (ethnic and otherwise) that's bad.

What's worse now is that somehow it's harder to talk about today than it was before...

As an example a movie like Blazing Saddles could not be made today.


A lot of people seem to have their own personal story that informs them on how they view race and regard their story as having more weight than another person's experience.


As a mental exercise consider a radio show I heard a relatively local talk show host talk a show he did in the past which illustrates assumption some people make.

He had an illegal immigrant as a guest. Long story short it people made assumptions about the identity and origin of this guest and it turned out she was a Canadian national working as a server in a restaurant. She overstayed a visa and she thought it may have been easier for her to do so since she came from up North.

Needless to say, some people where thrown off because they made a particular assumption which turned out to be wildly off the mark.


In short I think the best solution for conundrum presented by race and prejudice is to become less ignorant by gathering more information and being exposed to people who are different than you. Everyone starts out ignorant if you choose to remain so then that's on you.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Even if I had a racist uncle, I wouldn't be telling people not to judge him as a racist because hes REALLY a nice guy..as long as you're black and injured.

If that's what you thought my point was you haven't understood. What I did us use him as an example of someone who says one thing then does another seeing no inconsistency. Applied more generally that something we see in people all the time, indicating that we're more complex than any label connotes. This is an exploration of one of those contrary qualities namely how people react to race and indeed the discussion of it. My uncle was as has been pointed out someone with a bad mouth- someone who spoke ill of blacks (and Jews and Mexicans and just about everyone else including whites from the north- I suppose because I was related I was an exception) but when faced with a situation his reaction was to disregard what he had learned about differences and help. There's no justification. He was what he was, for good and ill, and merely an example.

Conversely one can consider those around him. Those who wouldn't be racist, but didn't care if the person lived or died. Why is that the case? Why do people who have no racial consideration whatsoever associated with another fail to act? That's another contradiction.

You all are obviously set in your ways

Who are "you all"? Think about that for a minute. Not all of us are participating by asking questions or challenging commonly held notions, but some of us are. We're attempting a dialogue about what has been a difficult subject to explore without accusations or derailment. I will not chide you on your reluctance to participate. I can understand some of your points, but on the other hand "we all" aren't all alike either.

The truth is that you have by your reaction added to the interaction and given something to consider as well. That's not an insult, but how any of us react to a concept or idea, whether to enlighten or resist or obscure is a statement. It just harder to get the true significance, but there is one.

 

[SheHateMe]

The truth is that you have by your reaction added to the interaction and given something to consider as well. That's not an insult, but how any of us react to a concept or idea, whether to enlighten or resist or obscure is a statement. It just harder to get the true significance, but there is one.

I am not resisting adding something meaningful to the conversation because I don't have anything to say or because I'd rather not be exposed to the "truth" (which Geo has claimed he has been ordained to do..expose people to the truth from "a white mouth"). I am refusing to participate because I have already been on AT long enough to know that what I say makes little difference here. After all, I AM a minority and I wouldn't be surprised to find more AT posters coming in here and echoing the thoughts of people like Geo and Northern Lawn.

Why bother?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I am not resisting adding something meaningful to the conversation because I don't have anything to say or because I'd rather not be exposed to the "truth" (which Geo has claimed he has been ordained to do..expose people to the truth from "a white mouth"). I am refusing to participate because I have already been on AT long enough to know that what I say makes little difference here. After all, I AM a minority and I wouldn't be surprised to find more AT posters coming in here and echoing the thoughts of people like Geo and Northern Lawn.

Why bother?

Well I'm genuinely sorry for that. Since I've never been in your shoes I don't have an empathy based on experience, but it's not hard to understand why you feel as you do. That's why I decided to ask your opinion, but again there is no compulsion or ill thought on my part for not doing so.

Some things are virtually impossible to discuss, and race is at or near the top of the list. We were once taught that it was plainly obvious that Whites were the superior to everyone else and even built entire social constructs around that belief.

I've included the commentary which prefaced the poem by Kipling:

“The White Man’s Burden”: Kipling’s Hymn to U.S. Imperialism

In February 1899, British novelist and poet Rudyard Kipling wrote a poem entitled “The White Man’s Burden: The United States and The Philippine Islands.” In this poem, Kipling urged the U.S. to take up the “burden” of empire, as had Britain and other European nations. Published in the February, 1899 issue of McClure’s Magazine, the poem coincided with the beginning of the Philippine-American War and U.S. Senate ratification of the treaty that placed Puerto Rico, Guam, Cuba, and the Philippines under American control. Theodore Roosevelt, soon to become vice-president and then president, copied the poem and sent it to his friend, Senator Henry Cabot Lodge, commenting that it was “rather poor poetry, but good sense from the expansion point of view.” Not everyone was as favorably impressed as Roosevelt. The racialized notion of the “White Man’s burden” became a euphemism for imperialism, and many anti-imperialists couched their opposition in reaction to the phrase.

Take up the White Man’s burden—

Send forth the best ye breed—

Go send your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need

To wait in heavy harness

On fluttered folk and wild—

Your new-caught, sullen peoples,

Half devil and half child

Take up the White Man’s burden

In patience to abide

To veil the threat of terror

And check the show of pride;

By open speech and simple

An hundred times made plain

To seek another’s profit

And work another’s gain

Take up the White Man’s burden—

And reap his old reward:

The blame of those ye better

The hate of those ye guard—

The cry of hosts ye humour

(Ah slowly) to the light:

"Why brought ye us from bondage,

“Our loved Egyptian night?”

Take up the White Man’s burden-

Have done with childish days-

The lightly proffered laurel,

The easy, ungrudged praise.

Comes now, to search your manhood

Through all the thankless years,

Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,

The judgment of your peers!

That kind of reasoning was common among the intelligentsia of the day. In a bizarre way it represented the Progressive thought of many. Given that Whites are superior, what could be more natural and kind than to embrace our forever less able members of humanity and care for them. It was The Greater Good of the day. Imperialism was the secular humanism of the day, or part of it to Kipling and others of like thought.

Well there's more on that but time to make the stir fry! Just don't take my ending this specific post is an endorsement of Kipling.

 

[peonyu]

Yet Another Race Thread.

We've had a few of those recently, and I've thought about my own family in that context.

The background-
My uncle (for whom I had genuine affection) did have an annoying habit of being very vocal about his racism. He was a dirt farmer from down south and he repeated what he had heard over and over and that was blacks are untrustworthy and lazy. When Obama ran the first time he said "I'll never vote for a ******". Yes, I said "that word", because that's how he spoke.

Now I'd never seen him mistreat in any way someone who was black, and if he knew them personally he never had a bad word to say. Curious case, my uncle.

So one time when I was visiting, his daughter (my cousin of course) told me to ask him about something that had just happened a day or two before. Something about a black guy being hurt.

Well I don't remember if it was a fall or a car accident or just what, but he was driving through Little Rock "in the wrong kind of neighborhood" and there was a black man who was clearly injured. The majority of people there were black and they just walked past him. The few whites did too. So he pulled over, gave him first aid, had someone call an ambulance and waited until they came and was attended to. Yeah a black guy.

So I asked him the obvious question "Why did you help him"? His response was one of confusion and said this as if I were stupid as could be. "He was hurt and no one was helping him." That was it. He saw an injured person who needed help and stepped in and even afterward he didn't see the irony.

That's not an approval of all my uncle does, but people are complex and strange creatures. Some will say all the right things and do wrong, and some will do the opposite.

I have to say I was pretty proud of the old man that day.

Just a ramble, but we use terms (not just racist, again this wasn't a defense of how he spoke) that create a box so we can put people in. Blacks voting for blacks aren't automatically doing so because of racism, white for whites for that matter.

Might be best to not be too hasty in making judgements based on what we call them.

White people are micro analyzed for racism, whereas non whites get a free pass. Its common to hear white people talk about their racist relative which is good, but its almost unheard of to hear of a black person talking that way about one of their relatives. If racism is ever going to go away it needs to be a two way street and not the one way street that it is today.

 

[werepossum]

Yet Another Race Thread.

We've had a few of those recently, and I've thought about my own family in that context.

The background-
My uncle (for whom I had genuine affection) did have an annoying habit of being very vocal about his racism. He was a dirt farmer from down south and he repeated what he had heard over and over and that was blacks are untrustworthy and lazy. When Obama ran the first time he said "I'll never vote for a ******". Yes, I said "that word", because that's how he spoke.

Now I'd never seen him mistreat in any way someone who was black, and if he knew them personally he never had a bad word to say. Curious case, my uncle.

So one time when I was visiting, his daughter (my cousin of course) told me to ask him about something that had just happened a day or two before. Something about a black guy being hurt.

Well I don't remember if it was a fall or a car accident or just what, but he was driving through Little Rock "in the wrong kind of neighborhood" and there was a black man who was clearly injured. The majority of people there were black and they just walked past him. The few whites did too. So he pulled over, gave him first aid, had someone call an ambulance and waited until they came and was attended to. Yeah a black guy.

So I asked him the obvious question "Why did you help him"? His response was one of confusion and said this as if I were stupid as could be. "He was hurt and no one was helping him." That was it. He saw an injured person who needed help and stepped in and even afterward he didn't see the irony.

That's not an approval of all my uncle does, but people are complex and strange creatures. Some will say all the right things and do wrong, and some will do the opposite.

I have to say I was pretty proud of the old man that day.

Just a ramble, but we use terms (not just racist, again this wasn't a defense of how he spoke) that create a box so we can put people in. Blacks voting for blacks aren't automatically doing so because of racism, white for whites for that matter.

Might be best to not be too hasty in making judgements based on what we call them.

I once read that the default position in the South is to be racist against blacks as a race, but to treat black individuals just like anyone else. I think there's some truth to that too, so perhaps your uncle isn't so strange. Also, there are human tendencies to blame others for one's own problems and to look down on someone to make you feel better about yourself, whether that manifests in looking down on blacks/Mexicans/Yankees/etc. or blaming "the man" for your own lack of a career or home or whatever.

Considering that we have a Supreme Court Justice who openly believes her race to make superior judgments simply by virtual of race, can't feel too bad about your uncle.