My Ubuntu Experience

[imported_dingdong]

Originally posted by: Brazen
It takes me about 2 hours going from bare-metal to having Ubuntu installed, fully-updated, customized and my favorite software installed.

To get Windows XP installed, find drivers, get all updates from Windows Updates, customize it and install an equivalent set of software takes about 10 hours.

Just saying. I use them both depending on the situation.

10 hours.. are you retarded?

 

[imported_dingdong]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

thats because your likely already knowledgeable about linux and windows, to a point where you think everyone else is retarded in this area.

You used the word retarded, not me.

you cant believe?

Ok sorry, I find it hard to believe.

but pretend your a noob and go to distrowatch.org and tell me if you really think any of that stuff on that site would make a lick of sense to anyone who's used to using windows on their HP or something.

Nice strawman, nowhere in your OP did you mention distrowatch or installing the distro at all. I was merely talking about the UI after it's installed, whether you did the installation or not is orthogonal.

but IF, linux was so similar to windows then how come OEM's arent preinstalling it on every PC?

Because they get Windows virtually for free in their OEM deals and it's what people expect. But that's changing, Dell and WalMart have both started offering Linux desktops.

how come people are spending hundres for windows if its exact clone...as you apparantly think it is....is free?

The only people spending hundreds for a Windows license are idiots and people buying Windows Server. Everyone else is getting an OEM license either with their box or with some cheap piece of hardware.

windows on theother hand is ready. almost everything has a simple help and support link.

Now that's one of the funniest things I've ever read. The last time I installed XP on this machine right here I spent probably two hours finding and installing drivers because it doesn't support any hardware out of the box and I had to use a second box to do it because it didn't have drivers for my NIC. It was anything but simple.

heck i couldnt figure out why a paint prog is called Gimp..what a stupid name

And I can't figure out why MS Paint is so gimped, it's practically useless.

to sum it up: put windows and Linux in front of a noob....which one will the learn the fastest?

Depends on the person. If they have no previous experience with either system then it's a coin toss.

are you having communication problems or something? Learn to grab the general idea from a post and post in full paragraph. Is it that hard for you?
I think the you just blame your incompetence to windows, in fact, switching to linux might fool you to feel better but your problems are still there.

 

[Nothinman]

ubuntu is actually slower than windows. and because of the poor driver support, you are not getting the most from your hardware, what is the point of using such thing?

In boot speed maybe, but that's about it and that'll likely be gone in a release or two when they switch init systems.

are you having communication problems or something? Learn to grab the general idea from a post and post in full paragraph. Is it that hard for you?

If you're going to critique my posting style at least use proper capitlization, punctuation, etc yourself.

I think the you just blame your incompetence to windows, in fact, switching to linux might fool you to feel better but your problems are still there.

No, I'm perfectly competent with Windows and Linux but Windows makes everything much more difficult. With any Linux install I boot up and instantly 99% of my hardware is running because all of the drivers are included and loaded automatically on bootup. With Windows you have to install a half-dozen or more drivers from 3rd parties and if your NIC isn't supported out of the box (and that's the case in just about every machine bought in the last 5 years) you have more hoops to jump through since you can't download those drivers because your NIC doesn't work yet.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

It needs to be able to set up itself and download and install all drivers without user intervention,

It already does this a thousand times better than Windows.

it needs to offer out-of-the-box compatibility with Windows applications (games including).

No, it needs developers to port their apps to Linux. Relying on WINE won't help anyone in the long term.

If I became super rich, I'd start a PC gaming company that ran everything off of OpenGL/OpenAL, focused on game play and story at least as much as graphics and sound and force my programmers to release windows, linux, and mac versions.

Anyone wanna give me some money? The first thing I'm gonna need is a driver

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: dingdong
ubuntu is actually slower than windows. and because of the poor driver support, you are not getting the most from your hardware, what is the point of using such thing?

I tried on vmware, it was a pain in the ass

Using a new account so you don't get vacationed by the soon-to-be *nix forums mod?

 

[Nothinman]

If I became super rich, I'd start a PC gaming company that ran everything off of OpenGL/OpenAL, focused on game play and story at least as much as graphics and sound and force my programmers to release windows, linux, and mac versions.

That company used to be id (although with less emphasis on story). :/

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: dingdong

are you having communication problems or something? Learn to grab the general idea from a post and post in full paragraph. Is it that hard for you?
I think the you just blame your incompetence to windows, in fact, switching to linux might fool you to feel better but your problems are still there.

It's imprudent for someone with 3 posts to their username to be criticizing the posting style of a Lifer. It is especially so when that Lifer is about to become a moderator.

 

[tommo123]

i tried ubuntu and kubuntu in the last few weeks. ubuntu i found fairly intuitive but still has a learning curve. it seems to expect you to know certain things without giving you a clue e.g installing something and had to do it via terminal - then i get a message saying i have to do it as a superuser. ok. how?

thankfully my google skills arent weak and found the answer. but can anyone say how 'sudo su' means anything?

kubuntu was totally different and I didnt have a clue what i was doing with that thing.

god bless vmware - and also wubi. cool little thing that

 

[Cl1ckm3]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

thats because your likely already knowledgeable about linux and windows, to a point where you think everyone else is retarded in this area.

You used the word retarded, not me.

you cant believe?

Ok sorry, I find it hard to believe.

but pretend your a noob and go to distrowatch.org and tell me if you really think any of that stuff on that site would make a lick of sense to anyone who's used to using windows on their HP or something.

Nice strawman, nowhere in your OP did you mention distrowatch or installing the distro at all. I was merely talking about the UI after it's installed, whether you did the installation or not is orthogonal.

but IF, linux was so similar to windows then how come OEM's arent preinstalling it on every PC?

Because they get Windows virtually for free in their OEM deals and it's what people expect. But that's changing, Dell and WalMart have both started offering Linux desktops.

how come people are spending hundres for windows if its exact clone...as you apparantly think it is....is free?

The only people spending hundreds for a Windows license are idiots and people buying Windows Server. Everyone else is getting an OEM license either with their box or with some cheap piece of hardware.

windows on theother hand is ready. almost everything has a simple help and support link.

heck i couldnt figure out why a paint prog is called Gimp..what a stupid name

And I can't figure out why MS Paint is so gimped, it's practically useless.

to sum it up: put windows and Linux in front of a noob....which one will the learn the fastest?

Depends on the person. If they have no previous experience with either system then it's a coin toss.

nice way to overlook the truth and provide no real answers.

Now that's one of the funniest things I've ever read. The last time I installed XP on this machine right here I spent probably two hours finding and installing drivers because it doesn't support any hardware out of the box and I had to use a second box to do it because it didn't have drivers for my NIC. It was anything but simple.

i installed xp and found drivers by searching google, clicking download and presto. some were found by right clicking on device and clicking update.

funny though, i spent maybe a total of 10 hours with linux and never figured out the part of installing drivers. granted i didnt spend the whole time trying to learn just that of course, but the fact remains after 10 hrs or more of use i never had them. i remember the nvidia instructions for video drivers was very confusing to me. but i'm not an uber tech guru, i try to have time to live a life instead of learning how to do every little thing.

 

[nerp]

I personally like Windows a lot and think Vista is awesome but I'm very glad that there are free alternatives gaining momentum. I've always loved Linux for what it can do in terms of server roles. I see no reason to bash Linux now that Ubuntu and other flavors are getting more usable for the average person. The more the merrier. I personally have no plans to switch to Linux as a primary OS. But I've got some spare hardware lying around and having the ability to throw a complete dekstop OS on it for free and it actually being useful and straighforward is a big plus.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: Cl1ckm3

funny though, i spent maybe a total of 10 hours with linux and never figured out the part of installing drivers.

That's because all the drivers are already there. And the few that aren't, you install via the regular package manager - Synaptic. The problem isn't that it's too difficult, the problem is that it's so simple, you overlooked it.

 

[Nothinman]

nice way to overlook the truth and provide no real answers.

Exactly what truth did I overlook?

i installed xp and found drivers by searching google, clicking download and presto. some were found by right clicking on device and clicking update.

That's difficult to do when you've already done the installation and are sitting at an XP install with no NIC drivers.

 

[KeypoX]

Originally posted by: Brazen
It takes me about 2 hours going from bare-metal to having Ubuntu installed, fully-updated, customized and my favorite software installed.

To get Windows XP installed, find drivers, get all updates from Windows Updates, customize it and install an equivalent set of software takes about 10 hours.

Just saying. I use them both depending on the situation.

wow thats funny. you people really seem to have alot of problems with windows ... you should just stick to your ubuntu

 

[Nothinman]

wow thats funny. you people really seem to have alot of problems with windows ... you should just stick to your ubuntu

I definitely try to stick to Linux whenever possible but it's not always possible so I end up fighting with Windows fairly regularly. But that's beside the point, the main point was that Windows isn't nearly as easy as people say and in some areas it's a lot more difficult than Linux.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Chosonman
I had Ubuntu on my laptop on the release before dapper drake. Everything was cool but there was very little driver support especially for my wireless connection. I'm sure they've improved by now.

I am excited about the next release of Ubuntu (8.04: Hardy Heron), I hear it finally fixes the lack of sound with my Toshiba (P105 line).

Update: Installed the alpha and it is fixed:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Ubuntu has officially become my main desktop OS. Wine and steam run terrific. I was able to play cs, tf2 and css without anyissues.

since theyre the games i mostly play I am very pleased.

the only issue i came across though was lack of space. steam is a big folder and i ran out of room, so I'm stuck trying to figure out how to get steam/wine to install into another directory by default.

 

[Rottie]

I tried Ubuntu 7.10 on my laptop and it doesn't work I guess it sucks anyway.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: rasczak

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

:thumbsup:

Ubuntu has officially become my main desktop OS. Wine and steam run terrific. I was able to play cs, tf2 and css without anyissues.

since theyre the games i mostly play I am very pleased.

the only issue i came across though was lack of space. steam is a big folder and i ran out of room, so I'm stuck trying to figure out how to get steam/wine to install into another directory by default.

[/quote]

If only my x1950 Pro AGP played nicely with my nforce3 ultra (just tried the latest ATI linux driver and it still does not work properly) on my desktop in Linux (still cant seem to get 3D to work and 2D is very choppy to the point where it is borderline unusable)

Does not surprise me though, ATI has had driver issues with their AGP cards even in Windows for a while, leaving us with Hotfixes.


Oh well, at least my notebook's hardware works properly now albeit an alpha version. So I am happy about that.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Cl1ckm3
nice way to overlook the truth and provide no real answers.

i installed xp and found drivers by searching google, clicking download and presto. some were found by right clicking on device and clicking update.

funny though, i spent maybe a total of 10 hours with linux and never figured out the part of installing drivers. granted i didnt spend the whole time trying to learn just that of course, but the fact remains after 10 hrs or more of use i never had them. i remember the nvidia instructions for video drivers was very confusing to me. but i'm not an uber tech guru, i try to have time to live a life instead of learning how to do every little thing.

I sympathize with your position, as I once held the same, but I still think you're a little too dismissive of Linux. Here's a quote from a somewhat well-known web page, which I think is relevant here:

And Windows users who try to use their existing skills and habits generally also find themselves having many issues. In fact, Windows "Power Users" frequently have more problems with Linux than people with little or no computer experience, for this very reason. Typically, the most vehement "Linux is not ready for the desktop yet" arguments come from ingrained Windows users who reason that if they couldn't make the switch, a less-experienced user has no chance. But this is the exact opposite of the truth.

This is quite profound. In fact, it's a major problem not just for Linux, but also Windows and Mac OS. Mac users who try Windows are upset that certain things don't work the same way. Windows users who try Macs are just as frustrated when Mac OS is too different from Windows. And, as we all know, when we're accustomed to a certain way of doing things, different almost always means worse.

The thing is, though, different is *not* always worse. You just need to take the time to overcome the initial learning curve that comes along with a new operating system platform. If you don't have both the time and the patience to do that, then Linux probably isn't for you. However, if you think migrating to Linux can offer you some real benefits over sticking with Windows (and it usually can), it may be something to consider.

One of the major gripes with Linux is driver support. It is true that Linux is more picky about hardware than is Windows. I can't run Ubuntu on my main rig, for example, because it lacks full support for my Audigy LS. However, this tends to be less of an issue the newer your system.

If a driver is proprietary, then Ubuntu won't install it by default. However, it will identify the hardware and offer to install the proprietary drivers if you give the OK. You can do this by going to System > Administration > Restricted Drivers Manager. In my experience, if Ubuntu doesn't install the driver automatically, and you can't install it manually from Restricted Drivers Manager, then Linux probably doesn't support that particular piece of hardware. Even so, it's a good idea to ask around (e.g. at ubuntuforums.org) before you give up.

And of course lack of hardware support is a perfectly understandable reason to reject Linux. In fact, that's precisely the reason I never used it on my main rig. It wasn't until I built a second PC for my bedroom that I permanently installed Ubuntu. It took me a few weeks to get the hang of it, but now that I have I enjoy it immensely!

Another big complaint about Linux is the lack of point-and-click installation of software. In Windows, you browse individual web sites to find *.exe or *.msi files, and then go through a little installation wizard where you're asked a few questions. Ubuntu works completely differently. Nothing exists for Linux even close to an *.exe/msi file. Confusingly, web sites often imply otherwise. For example, to install Audacity in Windows you go to the Audacity download page and follow the appropriate links. However, there is also a link for Linux users. This implies that to install Audacity, you go to the same download page and follow the links, just like you would in Windows. That is not at all how it works, though. Instead, you install Audacity from within Ubuntu, without ever opening a web browser. Just go to System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager. If that sounds strange, consider that it's exactly the same way you install 99% of the software for Ubuntu. No web browsing is required.*

I was a little bit skeptical of Synaptic Package Manager the first time I used it. From my perspective, I thought that the idea of a single list of programs would mean less software support. That is, if a program could work on Ubuntu, I should be able to install it without an "official," as it were, stamp of approval by SPM. In principle, this seems like a valid concern, but I quickly found that in practice it's not a hindrance at all. I rarely want to install a program not supported by SPM, and when I do, it's a simple matter of figuring out the command-line jargon to type in terminal. Usually it's something simple like "sudo apt-get install audacity".

*- You still need an open internet connection, though.