My thought on Windows 8: Lacks polish and integration

[BigToque]

In many ways, Windows 8 is giving me the same feeling I got from Vista. I'm sure the underlying code is fine, but the UI needs a lot of fine tuning. There's just this big disconnect between the desktop and Metro interfaces, and it doesn't flow well.

To make things worse, parts of the desktop configuration have been removed for no real reason. An example of this is that desktop applications have massively think borders. In Windows 7 it's easy enough to configure elements of the window decorations. The dialog box for these modifications seems to have been removed. The code to make the modifications is still there (since I could make the change in the registry), they've just hidden the window. Why did they remove it?

Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. I guess we need to wait for Windows 9 to see what Windows 8 was supposed to be.

 

[tommo123]

i agree. windows defender is less integrated than in win7 and the look? uch. why take away aero in desktop mode? looks like xp again. ugly ugly ugly

 

[HeXen]

mine looks fine, just not sure which I like better

 

[lopri]

You can make changes in registry to make windows borders thinner. Why MS removed that option from Display control panel is beyond me.

http://www.askvg.com/registry-tweak-...-in-windows-8/

Edit: oops. Reading failure. You already knew.

 

[Hugo Drax]

i agree. windows defender is less integrated than in win7 and the look? uch. why take away aero in desktop mode? looks like xp again. ugly ugly ugly

They had to because Microsoft is focusing on tablets. So you need to remove features that could potentially slow down low power CPUs and consume battery life.

This is why it's now flat shaded 2d vs aero.

 

[Auric]

Does W8 have a Windows Classic theme?

 

[blurredvision]

i agree. windows defender is less integrated than in win7 and the look? uch. why take away aero in desktop mode? looks like xp again. ugly ugly ugly

I don't see where Windows Defender is less integrated. If anything, it's more integrated, since they don't even offer Microsoft Security Essentials for Windows 8 since WD has taken its place. WD is always there and running from the get-go.

 

[tommo123]

dugo drax - makes no sense on a PC though. i have no interest in their plans for tablets/phones. i only care about the experience on a PC.

BV - it's not in the context menus. i have to go to metro (yeuch) run it there and then selectively scan folders? in win7 i could right click and choose to scan.

 

[Sheep221]

In many ways, Windows 8 is giving me the same feeling I got from Vista. I'm sure the underlying code is fine, but the UI needs a lot of fine tuning. There's just this big disconnect between the desktop and Metro interfaces, and it doesn't flow well.

To make things worse, parts of the desktop configuration have been removed for no real reason. An example of this is that desktop applications have massively think borders. In Windows 7 it's easy enough to configure elements of the window decorations. The dialog box for these modifications seems to have been removed. The code to make the modifications is still there (since I could make the change in the registry), they've just hidden the window. Why did they remove it?

Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. I guess we need to wait for Windows 9 to see what Windows 8 was supposed to be.

Well, Vista featured pretty much alot improvements and changes to interface that were positive while keeping the older ones still available for those who wanted it. Vista was known as bad rather for performance than the design. Although I considered it as innovative system back in 2007.

Despite the lacking start menu(which now can be added via third party addon) windows 8 terribly lacks functionally, in both productivity and accessibility, there is no way to custom the interface and appearance. Which leaves user to look at very low-contrasted and too bright mix of pink blue and green colors that will haunt your eyes over short period of time.
Shadows around windows and transparency were removed as well and straight lines are now flat instead of 3D(the 3D appearance was used since windows 3.1). There is also no connection between metro and desktop part.

Does W8 have a Windows Classic theme?

No, classic, basic and aero themes were removed.

 

[blurredvision]

BV - it's not in the context menus. i have to go to metro (yeuch) run it there and then selectively scan folders? in win7 i could right click and choose to scan.

Ahh, gotcha. Might I suggest installing Malwarebytes to add some layered security? Buying a license for Malwarebytes Pro and have it running beside WD would be a very good option, plus that would integrate into the shell for scanning from context menus. At the very least, install the free version, which won't give you active protection but does integrate into the shell.

I'd rather scan with Malwarebytes than Windows Defender anyway.

 

[Hugo Drax]

dugo drax - makes no sense on a PC though. i have no interest in their plans for tablets/phones. i only care about the experience on a PC.

BV - it's not in the context menus. i have to go to metro (yeuch) run it there and then selectively scan folders? in win7 i could right click and choose to scan.

It does not matter what you want. Microsoft is now going to optimize its os for the lowest common denominator hardware. Microsoft failed trying to shoehorn the desktop onto tablets. So they figure do the opposite, try to shoehorn the tablet on to the desktop.

 

[makken]

I've been using it all weekend, and the UI definitely feels clunky and needs refinement. I agree with you on the whole disconnect between the Metro and Desktop aspects of the UI. The flip side to this is that I can basically stay completely in desktop mode and ignore the Metro stuff all together.

I still haven't find a way in the UI to change the default user / pre login lockscreen. and that ugly picture of seattle is a real eyesore.

the store needs massive help.

and I'm still figuring out how the Microsoft account works. Is there any way to have different login passwords per machine if I link my user to a MS account? (I would like different login passwords on my desktop and laptop, even if both users are linked to the same MS account)

 

[foghorn67]

mine looks fine, just not sure which I like better

How do you activate this?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Those are just desktop backgrounds.

Personally I think the lockscreen on a desktop is beyond stupid. Its like they just pasted the code off the phone software. Just dumb

 

[hasu]

Windows 8 should have been named Windows Surface and should have been a different product. Or at least there should have been two different version for Windows, Windows 8 Desktop and Window 8 Surface. That would have made things simpler without taking away Windows 7 functionality people already familiar with. Two, totally different, interfaces to a single underlying system adds a lot of confusion. For example, you can install Skype for Metro and/or Skype for Desktop! So what happens if you install both? There is no need for Metro UI on a desktop machine - especially for power users. It is completely wrong to assume that every body can use a tablet for all their work (I mean real work).

 

[cmdrdredd]

Windows 8 should have been named Windows Surface and should have been a different product. Or at least there should have been two different version for Windows, Windows 8 Desktop and Window 8 Surface. That would have made things simpler without taking away Windows 7 functionality people already familiar with. Two, totally different, interfaces to a single underlying system adds a lot of confusion. For example, you can install Skype for Metro and/or Skype for Desktop! So what happens if you install both? There is no need for Metro UI on a desktop machine - especially for power users. It is completely wrong to assume that every body can use a tablet for all their work (I mean real work).

Well...I guess I can see where someone only has a laptop and that laptop comes with Windows 8 and has a touchscreen. Your kid knows the touchscreen, from his usage of an android or iphone/ipod etc. So he/she understands how to touch something to open it and knows what angry birds and cut the rope are. So Metro could be a simple interface they can use that includes a web browser, access to a messenger to talk to friends, music and things like that. Then when you go to work on it you log in your account and swap to the desktop and have more functionality. It is harder (not impossible) to get into the control panels and device manager from metro. So less chance of the young one uninstalling your network card or something by accident.

I guess I can see a use for it in some respects. However it does indeed seem forced in there for no real reason. Most people who have used a computer are already familiar with Windows in a general way. Enough to find their way around the desktop. The addition of an interface that is both new and requires a learning curve is a bit strange to me when I think about it from a perspective of a power user. When most people on desktop computers are not using touch screens it makes Metro a bit harder to use. The fact that they actually put a lock screen in there is pretty ridiculous. It's like they forgot that a desktop computer is not a phone.

 

[augiem]

Two, totally different, interfaces to a single underlying system adds a lot of confusion.

Which is part of the reason why I feel MS failed big time with Windows 8. Who was their target audience? Was it the casual user who "just wants it to work"? If so, they failed. The UI requires too much tutoring because it hides so much information off-screen and uses too many cryptic gestures. And the dual-nature of the OS is going to confuse the heck out of casual users. You simply can't just pick it up and figure it out in 20 minutes like you can iOS, which is exactly what you want if you're targeting the casual user. I don't even want to imagine trying to teach my mom or dad Windows 8. GUI = graphical user interface, but Windows 8 feels more like an IUI, invisible user interface, all in the name of pretty graphic design.

Windows 8 UI breaks all of the conventions everyone's come to learn in user interfaces which I feel is going to be a serious problem for the casual user. Don't forget, everyone out there uses the web, which is nothing more than collection of UI's used to access data. Most web design makes use of a common design language. Everyone has been taught to see something and interact with it (which is instinctual), but now they're asking people to remember that the thing they want to interact with is invisible, and that it may change based on the context of the screen they're in. This applies to both the corners/sides/charms and the "just start typing" mechanic for searching. It's akin to telling everyone to start using and remembering hotkeys for everything. Power users can do it, casual users will not. And it's not that there aren't enough pixels on the screen to handle all these functionalities, it's that they simply did not want to clutter the negative space. (In my mind, a sure sign of a bad designer is one who regards form more highly than function.)

Can you imagine what the web would be like if web designers started using all kinds of invisible navigation and gestures?

Was their target audience power users? Clearly not. Business? I don't think so. They missed their target if they even had one to begin with.

 

[HeXen]

How do you activate this?

Start8

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

 

[augiem]

Start8

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Here's an open source alternative. (This one is more like XP/Vista start menu it looks like.)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

I haven't tried it yet.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Which is part of the reason why I feel MS failed big time with Windows 8. Who was their target audience? Was it the casual user who "just wants it to work"? If so, they failed. The UI requires too much tutoring because it hides so much information off-screen and uses too many cryptic gestures. And the dual-nature of the OS is going to confuse the heck out of casual users. You simply can't just pick it up and figure it out in 20 minutes like you can iOS, which is exactly what you want if you're targeting the casual user. I don't even want to imagine trying to teach my mom or dad Windows 8. GUI = graphical user interface, but Windows 8 feels more like an IUI, invisible user interface, all in the name of pretty graphic design. (Oooo! Look at all that purdy negative space!)

Windows 8 UI breaks all of the conventions everyone's come to learn in user interfaces which is going to be a serious problem for the casual user. Don't forget, everyone out there uses the web, which is nothing more than collection of UI's used to access data. Most web design makes use of a common design language. Everyone has been taught to see something and interact with it (which is instinctual), but now they're asking people to remember that the thing they want to interact with is invisible, and that it may change based on the context of the screen they're in. This applies to both the corners/sides/charms and the "just start typing" mechanic for searching. It's akin to telling everyone to start using and remembering hotkeys for everything. Power users can do it, casual users will not. And it's not that there aren't enough pixels on the screen to handle all these functionalities, it's that they simply did not want to clutter the negative space. A sure sign of a bad designer is one who regards form more highly than function and that's clearly what happened here.

Can you imagine what the web would be like if web designers started using all kinds of invisible navigation and gestures?

Was their target audience power users? Clearly not. Business? I don't think so. They missed their target if they even had one to begin with.

Have you used Windows 8 Pro on a touch screen? I'm still waiting to be able to do that. However, I have Windows 8 on my desktop and it is far from the mess you claim it to be.

Why do I get the feeling most people with negative comments probably haven't used Windows 8 very much and just looked at it and said "it's ugly" and drew conclusions based on that? Not saying that's you but I get the distinct impression a lot of the negativity is from first impressions without usage.

I used to hate Metro and said it was stupid for a desktop. I decided to buy Windows 8 for $40 so I knew what it was about in case I needed to help someone with it and you know what? All the stuff I thought about it turned out to be wrong when I actually started using it. The stuff under the hood that I've read about also really sounds solid. I thought it would be a mess and unusable without a touch interface, I was wrong. I thought it'd be slow, it's faster. I thought stuff wouldn't work, stuff works the same and in some cases better. I thought I'd have to figure out new stuff about driver installs and DRM issues, there are no issues for me.

Everyone is entitled to dislike it but I do feel like everyone should give it a real try somehow before deciding they outright hate it.

 

[HeXen]

Here's an open source alternative. (This one is more like XP/Vista start menu it looks like.)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

I haven't tried it yet.

its more bloated, doesn't have the start screen as a menu, rather 7/xp/98 styles. Other than that its great, works fine and its free. But Start8 is only $5, $4.49 with coupon code, petty cash, most people spend more than that for a trip to the 7/11, but more practical if you prefer having the new start screen as a menu. size options available too

 

[augiem]

Have you used Windows 8 Pro on a touch screen?

Yes, I have. Generally, it's quite a bit nicer an experience than with a mouse. Less cludgy.

I'm still waiting to be able to do that. However, I have Windows 8 on my desktop and it is far from the mess you claim it to be.

Imagine you're not a savvy computer user... or better yet. Ask a friend who doesn't know much about computers (or a parent) to sit down and try using it with no tutoring at all. I have done this. It's pretty funny and sad.

Why do I get the feeling most people with negative comments probably haven't used Windows 8 very much and just looked at it and said "it's ugly" and drew conclusions based on that? Not saying that's you but I get the distinct impression a lot of the negativity is from first impressions without usage.

I downloaded the beta no less than 3 times during development and installed in on several computers. I've got the final on dual boot on my main machine right now. No, I have used Windows 8 extensively. I bought it so I could develop for Windows Store. I am not speaking from "ignorance" like everyone on the DailyTech comments likes to accuse anyone who doesn't think Windows 8 is the bee's knees. Sorry but it's really irking me to have to answer this question every single time I comment on Windows 8.

My post above is speaking from a designer's perspective. I happen to be one. I have a BFA and have been designing for the web for about 16 years and software for the past 8. I've also done graphic design (apart from web) for around 8 years. Designers must think about their audience. I try to examine things more deeply than just to ask "does it work for me."

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yes, I have.



Imagine you're not a savvy computer user... or better yet. Ask a friend who doesn't know much about computers (or a parent) to sit down and try using it with no tutoring at all. I have done this. It's pretty funny and sad.



I downloaded the beta no less than 3 times during development and installed in on several computers. I've got a dual boot on my main machine right now. No, I have used Windows 8 extensively. I am not speaking from "ignorance" like everyone on the DailyTech comments likes to accuse anyone who doesn't think Windows 8 is the bee's knees. Sorry but it's really irking me to have to answer this question every single time I comment on Windows 8.

I had my sister try using metro, actually figured things out by moving the mouse around and finding the hot corners. Simple. Not saying that's all there is to it, but...yeah. Anyway if you gave it a try for longer than a couple minutes and didn't care for it that's fine, you gave it a fair shot. I don't hate it...starting to really like it.

Still when someone mentions something they don't like and someone says "Oh download this and try it or you can press these keys" someone comes back with "that's stupid you have to do it like that". It's back and forth too much and is as bad as Intel vs AMD, or AMD vs Nvidia or iOS vs Android.

 

[augiem]

I had my sister try using metro, actually figured things out by moving the mouse around and finding the hot corners. Simple.

I'm curious how long it took her to figure out how to close a program.

Still when someone mentions something they don't like and someone says "Oh download this and try it or you can press these keys" someone comes back with "that's stupid you have to do it like that". It's back and forth too much and is as bad as Intel vs AMD, or AMD vs Nvidia or iOS vs Android.

I don't recall saying anything of the sort. If you're reading my comment as such, I suggest you re-read it. The entire post is about casual users and the removal of UI elements in favor of gestures and hidden elements, the dual nature of Modern UI on top of desktop, and how all these things will confuse the casual user.

If you interpret my having the opinion that using visual UI elements is simpler and more natural than invisible ones for the casual user as saying "that's stupid you have to do it like that" and starting an a pointless debate of ideologues, you're reading between the lines.

I happen to believe there are efficient/effective ways of doing things and ways that are less so depending on the task and the intended audience. If we are just supposed to accept that every way as equally good and effective, then there's no point in having an opinion and there's certainly no point in being a designer, no point in studying ergonomics or usage patterns, etc. Of course some people will like it. But it is my opinion that they missed the mark for the presumed audience, the casual user. We'll find out with Windows 9.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm curious how long it took her to figure out how to close a program.



I don't recall saying anything of the sort. If you're reading my comment as such, I suggest you re-read it. The entire post is about casual users and the removal of UI elements in favor of gestures and hidden elements, the dual nature of Modern UI on top of desktop, and how all these things will confuse the casual user.

If you interpret my having the opinion that using visual UI elements is simpler and more natural than invisible ones for the casual user as saying "that's stupid you have to do it like that" and starting an a pointless debate of ideologues, you're reading between the lines.

Why do you insinuate I even meant you? Other people read the forum too.