My take on Islam

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ntdz
I have no problem with Islam as a religion. It only teaches good principles and values. However, I DO have a problem with the clerics and terrorists taking the whole religion and Koran out of context and using it to brainwash the arabs. It's total bullshit, and I think the people "in charge" of Islam have totally corrupted it and it's followers.

Oddly enough, this is exactly the same kind of problem I have with Christianity in this country. Not to anywhere near the same extent of course, but I think the difference in degreee of manipulation and behavior is more due to circumstances than religion. I'm almost positive that if the religions were swapped, the terrorists would still be terrorists.

But, you see, the difference is that "brainwashed" Christians here in this country aren't blowing themselves up to kill innocent people and get rid of democracy. They are normal people who live their lives, and have a strong faith in god. What's the harm in that? Priests aren't going out and telling their people they should go kill innocent people and declare war on Islam are they? Hell no. They preach a positive, peaceful message. MANY islamic clerics, or whatever they are, tell their constituants to go out and oppose democracy, oppose American troops, kill innocent people.

That's exactly my point, Christians here are fine (for the most part) because they are here. The Middle East is a much different set of circumstances, and I think that we would be pretty much the same if everyone here was Muslim instead of Christian, and the terrorists would still be terrorists even if they were Christians. I don't think religion in this case is a cause or a reason, it is simply a tool.

I think the potential for very bad things is there for any group of people devoted to following religious leaders instead of religions, no religion is immune.

There are plenty of indiviuals who do claim to "christian" and are using their religion as political tool. Look the past 10 years with the abortion clinic bombings and pastors kicking democrats out of their churchs. There are plenty of crazy christian zealots who are trying to change our goverment into a religious one. It's just that most of us aren't allowing these people to get to these positions. While our fundamentalists christians aren't going a "crusade" they've done plenty of things I absolutely dispise.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: ntdzMANY islamic clerics, or whatever they are, tell their constituants to go out and oppose democracy, oppose American troops, kill innocent people.

Are you serious right there?

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: blodhi74

Originally posted by: Tab
Is it true the Koran can't be translated to english as it would be a crime. I'd like to read it over the summer.

no. It can be translated to any language but all the prayers that reference Quran or are taken from Quran have to be recited in arabic . All muslims recite Quran and say their prayers in Arabic

obviosly you dont much about the Quran. Yes the Quran can be translated but it would lose most of its "between the lines" meanings.

ding ding correct. I have a copy of an english arabic quran and there is more paraphrase and trying to explain what was lost in conversion than there is actual text. There is nothing wrong with a Quran in other languages and it sounds ridiculous to force everyone to read it, but at the same time it is insisted that the original arabic text is presented next to the translated version at BARE minimum...

Why are we poor when our country is sitting on one of the top five largest oil reserves on Earth? The West. Not the corruption amongst our own leaders, surely.

Yup its their own leaders that are the fault. Not us. Nevermind the fact we will trin and support and give military and financial assistance to these leaders....Yllus I can't beleive you said that...I agree that the Middle East can EASILY be one of the richest areas in the world, but when we are the ones that are actively supporting dictatorships that repress the people there it becomes short sighted to say "It isn't our fault, you are the one with a corrupt dictator"

 

[RabidMongoose]

Yup its their own leaders that are the fault. Not us. Nevermind the fact we will trin and support and give military and financial assistance to these leaders....Yllus I can't beleive you said that...I agree that the Middle East can EASILY be one of the richest areas in the world, but when we are the ones that are actively supporting dictatorships that repress the people there it becomes short sighted to say "It isn't our fault, you are the one with a corrupt dictator"

So should the US invade those dictatorships then? Or impose sanctions?

I guess it's a lose-lose situation. How nice...

 

[magomago]

How about stop supporting them? I know, amazing concept.

Though right now I'd doubt that the'd fall because these oppressive dictators already have toys from us...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: magomago
How about stop supporting them? I know, amazing concept.

Though right now I'd doubt that the'd fall because these oppressive dictators already have toys from us...

It's too childish of a concept unless you can go into more detail than that.

Yes, let's cut off all contact with them and watch the countries crumble.

Shifting all the blame to the US avoids the main problem. Personally, I don't even feel that it's the main problem, just a scapegoat.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: magomago
How about stop supporting them? I know, amazing concept.

Though right now I'd doubt that the'd fall because these oppressive dictators already have toys from us...

How does the US uniquely support these countries and thus seem to deserve all of the blame? Are you trying to say that trade is supporting another country?

Like CoW said, you need to get into specifics. I think you like to think of the actions in a vacuum.

No, one of the main reasons these countries are horrible is because of religious extremism within the populations. The US and almost every other country in the entire world may have some blame in this situation just like many others, but not nearly as much as other factors within the country and history.

 

[SuperTool]

I think there is a difference with sympathising with some of the grievances that Islamic terrorists have against the west, and sympathising with the tactics. I would say a lot of Muslims sympathise with the grievances against Israel, Russians in Chechya, US interventions in the middle east, etc. I don't think most Muslims sympathise with actions like killing schoolchildren at Beslan for example.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Tab
Is it true the Koran can't be translated to english as it would be a crime. I'd like to read it over the summer.

i have an english copy

 

[Aimster]

90% is kind of woah.

Depends on who you hang out with and what part of the world you are from.

 

[Conky]

Muslims have no desire for peace.

If peace occured most of them would have to get real jobs and quit pretending to be part of any "jihad".

They are worse than the lowest form of welfare fraud people in the US and ain't it always easy to blame the man? :roll: