My run in with the cops

[PrinceofWands]

I would have told him, "then arrest me now because I'm going to keep looking". Then sue the entire department into the stone age.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I would have told him, "then arrest me now because I'm going to keep looking". Then sue the entire department into the stone age.

B/c it's legal to go onto private property and case them?

 

[HannibalX]

So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I would have told him, "then arrest me now because I'm going to keep looking". Then sue the entire department into the stone age.

B/c it's legal to go onto private property and case them?

Because the cop was an ass. By placing a 'for sale' sign you have invited lookie-loos who are not trespassing UNTIL the owner asks them to leave. Or rather, if you are arrested for trespassing that is your claim and I'm betting it would stick. Hell, my county wouldn't prosecute two thieves because our gate didn't shut all the way, thereby inviting anyone to come onto our property. Sure, the cop can think it might be casing, and he's free to take down your info. But in that situation he was just being an unreasonable dick.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

That's your opinion. There's a reason why a phone number is listed on a For Sale Sign for a House.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

Okay so a criminal can case any house with a for sale sign because that's an invitation to go check out the back yard, etc?

 

[manowar821]

That's idiotic. Nobody is required to have a real-estate agent.

The cop is stupid, pure and simple.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

That's your opinion. There's a reason why a phone number is listed on a For Sale for a House.

I think you'd need to qualify what they were doing there. Coming up to the sign to look for flyers? Walking around the outside of the property? Looking in through a second story window? That goes a long way to sorting it out.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

Okay so a criminal can case any house with a for sale sign because that's an invitation to go check out the back yard, etc?

No, you knock on the front door and get some info. If nobody answers, you take the number and leave, with plans to call them later.

Snooping around is one thing, it doesn't sound like the OP was snooping. Were you OP?

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

That's your opinion. There's a reason why a phone number is listed on a For Sale Sign for a House.

The phone number is so you can call me and make an offer. I put the sign up so you would come and look at the place. Stop chasing off my customers.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: thepd7
Okay so a criminal can case any house with a for sale sign because that's an invitation to go check out the back yard, etc?

No, you knock on the front door and get some info. If nobody answers, you take the number and leave, with plans to call them later.

Snooping around is one thing, it doesn't sound like the OP was snooping. Were you OP?

Read the OP's posts. I believe he mentions walking into people's backyards. And obviously it was suspicious enough that someone called the police on him. And long enough, that he was still walking around the property between the call and police officer driving over to check it out.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

That's your opinion. There's a reason why a phone number is listed on a For Sale Sign for a House.

The phone number is so you can call me and make an offer. I put the sign up so you would come and look at the place. Stop chasing off my customers.

You're going to make an offer on a house without going inside the house? You're not going to call and ask for a showing? You think it's okay to look into someone's windows to case the house?

 

[Regs]

I can wip out my law book but I'm pretty sure that's tresspassing. Before you can step foot on anybodies land you need permission of the guardian or owner.

No Tresspassing signs are for the owners protection of liabilities in case someone gets injured on it. Like if I had 10 square miles of land with no fence around it, and someone got injured on it thinking it was public land, I could get sued.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: ElFenix

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

Okay so a criminal can case any house with a for sale sign because that's an invitation to go check out the back yard, etc?

reading is FUNdamental

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

That's your opinion. There's a reason why a phone number is listed on a For Sale Sign for a House.[/quote]obviously you can't get inside without either calling the number or knocking on the door.

Originally posted by: Regs
I can wip out my law book but I'm pretty sure that's tresspassing. Before you can step foot on anybodies land you need permission of the guardian or owner.

read your book. it'll tell you about implied invitees.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
If the OP was on the property then he was trespassing and the cop was absolutely in the right to run him off.

If you want to see the property then you need to either get an agent or have the listing agent show the property to you.

FYI... and this will save you a lot of headache... buyer's agents don't cost the buyer anything. Get yourself an agent and avoid jail.

Where I live only the land owner must be present and is the one who can demand a trespass, with out his permission the cops cannot or will not do anything.

Where I used to live you could get shot for doing that. Legally.

Sounds like you live in Texas.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Regs
I can wip out my law book but I'm pretty sure that's tresspassing. Before you can step foot on anybodies land you need permission of the guardian or owner.

read your book. it'll tell you about implied invitees.

I thought I did read that awhile ago. Implied invitees would be mail men, deliveries, or someone offering a service on your behalf like PS&G. I do not think a for sales sign without an open house invite would imply a stranger offering no service to the owner free reign over their property.

I believe the other condition for entrance is if there was an emergency, obviously.

I'll double check when I get home. Nef at work at the moment.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

Right, because that's the same.

From Wiki:

"Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter, and therefore be a trespasser."

Checking it out because you might want to buy it does not make you a licensee. Going up to the door to knock and talk to the owner, yes. Going around the back and side and checking it out, no.

In you example people are going into Wal-Mart with the intent to possibly purchase goods.

Although you can be warned about going back to certain stores (criminal trespass warning, normally used for shoplifters). There is still a Best Buy by my old house I can't go to becasue of me stealing something from them over 10 years ago, if I did it would be trespassing.

you can be an implied invitee. that is what someone looking at a house that has a for sale sign out front is if the person is inspecting the house because he might purchase it.

That's your opinion. There's a reason why a phone number is listed on a For Sale Sign for a House.

The phone number is so you can call me and make an offer. I put the sign up so you would come and look at the place. Stop chasing off my customers.

You're going to make an offer on a house without going inside the house? You're not going to call and ask for a showing? You think it's okay to look into someone's windows to case the house?

I'd call for a showing. Got me there.


I think it's okay to walk around an empty house(vacant or lived in) and peek in a window or two.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I would have told him, "then arrest me now because I'm going to keep looking". Then sue the entire department into the stone age.

You wouldn't get anywhere with that lawsuit. After being told to leave and refusing, you're committing criminal trespass.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

I think it's okay to walk around an empty house(vacant or lived in) and peek in a window or two.

I agree that it's somewhat common, I have done it.

However, I am not so ignorant that I think it's my right or that if a cop tells me to stop he is in the wrong. I fully recognize that legally I am trespassing and me looking around to buy looks the exact same as a criminal casing a house.

If it was legal then any criminal could case houses with for sale signs, even ones currently being occupied under the premise of looking to buy a house, that's obviously unacceptable.

 

[Descartes]

For what it's worth, I once looked at a house with my agent, and someone in the neighborhood called the cops on us. The cop ripped into the yard, jumped out and drew his gun. He demanded we throw up our arms until he could get to us. We were able to explain our situation a little and offer identification, and after that he apologized for the interruption and left.

In the end, they're just doing their job. I would rather cops be more paranoid than assume everyone walking around a house is looking to buy it. You can't be too careful these days, imo.

[edit]I should note that in my situation we walked to the house, so there was no car in the driveway. That might have helped indicate to whomever called the cops that it was a realtor.[/edit]

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
So do I need permission to walk into Wal-Mart and look at the things they have for sale? That is private property. I guess if I don't call first I must be casing the place.

The law treats residential and commercial private properties differently.

 

[Fern]

Tresspassing?

That's under state law. Can't get (properly) arrested here without at least a warning from the owner, etc. Check your own state law. But otherwise sounds like BS to me.

Sales Agent? BS again. You don't need one. State rules here again, but getting your own agent won't cost you anything. The seller's agent has to split the commission with them (buyer's agent).

But when looking for a house, I go by myself. I can tell by looking at the outside if I wanna even bother. The sales people wanna yak and BS and try to sell me on the place. I would only take them when I'm serious about a property. I.e., like you, I go by myself at first.

Next time, might try knocking on the door before you wander around. Maybe carry around a newspaper/real estate listing paper and note pad so you actually look like you're visiting homes for sale for a legit purpose (just a prop, I know)

Fern

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: ryan256

Originally posted by: waggy
not sure on that.

he was traspassing.

Yes.. I was on the property. But if you are trying to sell your house are you going to threaten people that come to look at it with trespassing? Don't you want them there? As for looking inside, yes I would contact the agent for that because going inside is a different matter. But just walking around the front yard?

A For Sale sign on my property is not an invitation for random people off the street to wander onto my property. Real estate agents generally arrange appointments ahead of time with the owner before visiting a property, unless of course its an open house.

QFT and </thread>.

somebody obviously called his ass in. those homes probably weren't vacant and he looked like a burglar, scoping out houses.