My personal irritation with FEAR 2 and Steam...

[Gunbuster]

So lets see here, ubiquitous internet lets me buy games without leaving home, reinstall whenever I want, pay lower prices, and always have the latest patch...

I hate copy protection as much as the next guy but come on now, stop being a princess. If you want it cheap wait a month or two and buy on sale.

 

[ayabe]

I guess I'm in the minority but I've never sold a game, never even considered it.

But I'm pretty selective so I normally only buy games that I know I will like and want to keep.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: MarcVenice

How about you BUY it, and download it, then remove the illegal version, and resell ^^

Nobody will buy boxed Steam games because there's absolutely no guarantee they haven't been activated already.

I think he means buy it and don't open the box so it can be resold as a new copy of the game. Not a bad idea really. Once I have a copy of the game in hand, I have a license to use it. I'm sure this method violates Warner Bros. EULA, but I think the 1st sale doctrine would invalidate it anyway.

Of course, I could still be charged with violating the DMCA since I'm circumventing the DRM in the game. I hope the FTC reads all 700 anti-DRM comments that end users made when they requested feedback on the issue awhile back.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...ell-the-ftc-no-drm.ars

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
So lets see here, ubiquitous internet lets me buy games without leaving home, reinstall whenever I want, pay lower prices, and always have the latest patch...

I hate copy protection as much as the next guy but come on now, stop being a princess. If you want it cheap wait a month or two and buy on sale.

This. All I'm hearing is people whining because in the end they don't want to be out $50-60 for an SP gaming experience. You can talk about your rights as a consumer all you want... all it comes down to is greed. I don't support DRM, but I also don't support whiners who basically want all their games to come with a $20 mail-in rebate. :roll:

IMHO a good game is WELL worth that price tag. But then, I'm the nostalgic type. I never resell my games, and if they're good I always play through them again after they've collected dust and I've forgotten about them.

 

[Ryland]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
So lets see here, ubiquitous internet lets me buy games without leaving home, reinstall whenever I want, pay lower prices, and always have the latest patch...

I hate copy protection as much as the next guy but come on now, stop being a princess. If you want it cheap wait a month or two and buy on sale.

The games from steam are usually only cheaper than full retail if you catch them on a sale. More often than not you can buy a game cheaper through a retail channel and then just punch its code into steam (I did that with Orange Box).

Have to register FEAR-2 on my Steam account kills it. I thought the first game was only "ok" and am not about to pay a bunch for a game that I can't resell afterwards.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster

pay lower prices,

Lower prices? What a load of nonsense. Fear 2 is currently $59.95 on Steam. What a total and utter rip-off.

I got mine from my local store for ~$44, 12% off the regular price of $49.99. Tell me, how exactly is Fear 2 cheaper on Steam?

That and after buying it, you still have to wait hours to download 12 GB. By the time you finish downloading, it?s quite possible someone with the optical version has already finished the game.

reinstall whenever I want,

You can?t reinstall whenever you want. If you reinstall when you have no internet access or Steam is down, you can?t do jack shit.

Edit: corrected misquote.

 

[Gunbuster]

Hey guess what? if internet is down I wont be doing much on my PC anyway. Did you miss my part about it being ubiquitous?

Left 4 Dead was on sale this past weekend, tons of other games have been too. You just have to wait a few months. Media products demand high prices when the launch, that's the business model. Cake and eat it too...

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
So lets see here, ubiquitous internet lets me buy games without leaving home, reinstall whenever I want, pay lower prices, and always have the latest patch...

I hate copy protection as much as the next guy but come on now, stop being a princess. If you want it cheap wait a month or two and buy on sale.

This. All I'm hearing is people whining because in the end they don't want to be out $50-60 for an SP gaming experience. You can talk about your rights as a consumer all you want... all it comes down to is greed. I don't support DRM, but I also don't support whiners who basically want all their games to come with a $20 mail-in rebate. :roll:

IMHO a good game is WELL worth that price tag. But then, I'm the nostalgic type. I never resell my games, and if they're good I always play through them again after they've collected dust and I've forgotten about them.

I think the basic issue is about comparing the PC version to the PS3/360 versions of the game. I'm pretty sure the bean counters at Warner Bros. looked at all DRM options and decided on the one that effectively eliminates the 2nd hand game market, since all forms of game copy protections are pretty much defeated by pirates on day 1 (including FEAR 2). From a business standpoint it makes perfect sense. It's the same reason PSN/Xbox Live Arcade games don't have optical disc versions, because they are physical goods which can be resold.

If anyone is greedy here, it's Warner Bros.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
Hey guess what? if internet is down I wont be doing much on my PC anyway. Did you miss my part about it being ubiquitous?

Left 4 Dead was on sale this past weekend, tons of other games have been too. You just have to wait a few months. Media products demand high prices when the launch, that's the business model. Cake and eat it too...

I've got no problem paying launch day pricing? I just want to be able to resell my game when I'm done with it, and I want my PC purchase to have value as a used product like the PS3/360 versions. What is so hard to understand here?

I personally feel that licenses to play games (aka Steam only releases), should be steeply discounted on day one due to the fact you can't resell your purchase. The math is simple really.

PS3/360 Used = Probably $40+ I can recover easily. Price of admission is ~$25.

PC Version Used = $0 I can recover. Price of admission IMHO should be about $25.

Stamp "This version cannot be resold once installed." on the box and see how many less people buy it.

 

[zagood]

Just something to add - if you buy the retail boxed version and authorize once via steam, you can then play offline.

https://support.steampowered.c...php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

I'd rather have a game tied to steam than have some other rogue DRM f'ing with my OS. My 2c.

-z

 

[Gunbuster]

You are gaming the system, when you resell it takes longer for the publisher to reach target numbers and drop prices or have sales. YOU keep retail prices high.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
You are gaming the system, when you resell it takes longer for the publisher to reach target numbers and drop prices or have sales. YOU keep retail prices high.

You mean that publishers base their prices on the total amount sold, and not on the rate of sale? So basically when WoW:WotLK reaches eleventy billion sold, the price will automatically drop?

OP, thanks for the heads up on DRM in Fear 2. I am sad because I really enjoyed Fear 1 and was planning on picking up Fear 2, but now I won't.

Steam = resale market killer. It has very little to do with restricting piracy.

 

[Koudelka]

I never resell my games. I like to keep them around incase i decide to replay through them someday. Also, I refuse to trade-in any old games or games i no longer play. It's an insult to trade in a practically brand-new game for $20 i just paid $60 for.. and watch it be resold at $55.

My only gripe with steam.. is that if you have an account issue, its 99% of the time you will never receive any kind of response from them or actually have the issue resolved.

I didnt realize how much i hated steam until a few weeks ago when i tried to purchase MTW2: Kingdoms expansion on Steam when i had already owned the MTW2 retail box version for a long time. Lo and behold, Steam will not let you purchase any expansion for a game if you do not own the original version.. from steam.

It's either ignorance on their part or one hell of a twisted marketing tool.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: pmv
I'm so glad the music industry is technologically clueless. If they'd been as technologically knowledgeable as the software industry we'd now be in the situation where whenever you wanted to play a music track you'd have to connect your stereo/mobile-phone-mp3-player to the internet and get 'permission'. And probably get charged per play. And you'd have to agree to a 1000 line EULA everytime you bought an album.

FEAR2 can join the list of games I'm not buying.

It'll only be a matter of time when all electronic media will be bio-bound to your SOUL.

I suspect we'll start seeing more games "linked" to a digital service that requires you to register the PC game first before it will install.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
Hey guess what? if internet is down I wont be doing much on my PC anyway. Did you miss my part about it being ubiquitous?

Left 4 Dead was on sale this past weekend, tons of other games have been too. You just have to wait a few months. Media products demand high prices when the launch, that's the business model. Cake and eat it too...

WTF does the internet being on have to do with playing my games, unless it's some crap tied to something like, say steam.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: ayabe
I guess I'm in the minority but I've never sold a game, never even considered it.

But I'm pretty selective so I normally only buy games that I know I will like and want to keep.

I've never sold any of my games either but it's a valid complaint.

 

[zagood]

Originally posted by: lupi
WTF does the internet being on have to do with playing my games, unless it's some crap tied to something like, say steam.

Hi, my name is Offline Mode, do you want to cyber?

<rant>

I've purchased retail copies of 99% of the games in the last 5 years that are worth playing, and I've NEVER had a problem with DRM or these mysterious "I can't play the game" problems. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe my low-midrange system kicks ass, or maybe I just know how to troubleshoot, but the bitching about PC games that are actually really fun to play just PISS ME OFF.

Do you want to be able to buy, much less play games on your PC? Then stop bitching and help with the solution. The solution being...
</rant>

"99%? So, like, two games?"

-z

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: zagood
I've purchased retail copies of 99% of the games in the last 5 years that are worth playing, and I've NEVER had a problem with DRM or these mysterious "I can't play the game" problems.

I've had problems with DRM, I've even had problems with Steam. But this thread is one scenario where I will never agree. I understand there is a large # of people who justify the cost of games by reselling them, just like there are a large number of people who justify the cost of video cards by reselling their old ones and only ever paying the differences.

Valve will ultimately have to answer for this and take a side. Whether that is, "no we will never let you resell" or "yes we are working on it". There is a valid case for both answers but ultimately I think the inability to resell could drive away too much of the audience that they need to capture to become a solid standard.

Personally, I'd rather see everyone pay $40 for a game then everyone pay $60 and some people resell their games for $20. But I also acknowledge that Steam isn't there yet and can't be there until all of the developers using Steam completely break free from B&M stores, because until that happens they have to keep their prices fixed if they want shelf space.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: zagood
I've purchased retail copies of 99% of the games in the last 5 years that are worth playing, and I've NEVER had a problem with DRM or these mysterious "I can't play the game" problems.

I've had problems with DRM, I've even had problems with Steam. But this thread is one scenario where I will never agree. I understand there is a large # of people who justify the cost of games by reselling them, just like there are a large number of people who justify the cost of video cards by reselling their old ones and only ever paying the differences.

Hi, I'm also part of the group that justifies $300 video cards (actually more like $200 since the 4850 came out) by reselling my old "used to be $300, but is now worth a little less" club. I figure it is worth a one time expenditure to get something near the very best available, and then upgrade somewhere between "out with the old" and "in with the new". I'd rather pay $100 twice a year than $200 once a year, because I can have the absolute best performance by doing a little more work. Ok, that was completely off topic.

I do definitely justify the price of short SP experiences (e.g. F.E.A.R. 2, Bioshock) by buying and reselling quickly in many cases. This is due to the fact that comparable products give me much more for the same amount of cash. Good examples are RPGs, fighting games, or games with significant MP aspects.

 

[Ryland]

I typically do the same thing. I use the proceeds from selling one game to offset the purchase of the next one. I have played very few games more than once and have been picking those up cheaply later on (usually from FSFT). A good portion of our economy (along with some of our laws) are based upon the ability to resell something when you are done with it.

 

[Koudelka]

I think the whole situation with piracy and reselling is like a double-edged sword. One party or the other is going to get screwed.

They try to eliminate some piracy with things like Securom and everyone gets upset because half the time it malfunctions and just causes problems for the consumer. Steam will fix an issue that software such as Securom provides, but now limits ability to resell the game and upsets even more people.

Seems like we're just stuck with either Securom, DRM, etc. or we're stuck with Steam, D2D, etc.

Give all your thanks for not being able to resell your games to technology, piracy and the future I feel your pain though.

 

[Stg-Flame]

My only gripe is when I buy a game, and then I must be connected to the Internet at some point to play the game. Far Cry and Crysis Warhead being the two games that I had to find and download a cracked .exe just to play the game because I was unable to get Internet where I was living at the time. With F.E.A.R 2 requiring you to install it via Steam, that already sets the game in a bad light with me.

To me, I think that game developers should just realize that there will always be people out there who would rather keep the mind-frame of "Pfft. Why should I pay for a game when I can just download it for free?" who will always be the first to download and then brag about pirating the game - all the while mocking others for paying for it. Limited activations is another hassle that devs should do away with. I am one of those people who will install the game, play it, beat it, probably play it again if it is good enough, uninstall it, and then shelve it until I want to play it again in the future. Activating the game a limited number of times will ultimately screw me in the end as I will have to watch how many times I install a game per reformat and upgrade.

I vote developers take a long hard look at the basics and what was produced in the past as opposed to what is being produced now. Games like Unreal Tournament will always shine (in my eyes) as opposed to UT3 because developers tried to add a story to a game where a story did not belong (criminals killing one another to see who's the best > four people whose home world was attacked seek vengeance [it sounds like a JRPG]).