I didnt' say that. But i don't think that a full fledged war is a good option either. I still think we need more world support on this, particularly the U.N.'s.
I didnt' say that. But i don't think that a full fledged war is a good option either. I still think we need more world support on this, particularly the U.N.'s.
more U.N. support means more world respect.
It means playing by the de facto rules of the civilized world.
It means a step away from our bullying tactics, such as the No Fly Zones that we artificially created, and not recognized by the U.N.
It means playing by the de facto rules of the civilized world.
It means a step away from our bullying tactics, such as the No Fly Zones that we artificially created, and not recognized by the U.N.
More respect for what? How has the UN helped the Isreal/Palestin issue over the past 20+ years? Do they respectfully help? Sure, but it sure does not solve anything.
The UN has no teeth to make anything happen, and what teeth is does have belong to the US military.
So what do you propose the UN do to diffuse this situation? Should we continue playing the weapons inspection shell game? Do we let the UN keeping writing useless resolutions that condemn terrorist nations?
Or do we step up and act. I vote we step up and act.
Charrison, if you didn't realize, most of the world is not with us on this one. More respect meaning people will start empathizing with us more, instead of ridiculing our foreign policy. I'm not talking specifically about Israel or Palestine, i'm talking right now about Iraq.
What do we do? We do whatever the U.N. wishes we do. We dont' blame Iraq before the inspections are fully over. We dont jump to conclusions. We dont (as Rumsefeld has tried) look far and wide desperately searching for ANY connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda to justify an invasion of the country. We play it by ear. Sometimes we blow hot, sometimes we blow cold. We have patience, we see what happens, then, we strike when the iron is hot. Right now is NOT a good time, with Al Qaeda still strong and running, with a lack of world support (by Asia and Europe in particular), and with our economy on thin ice.
Bah, we waited 10 years, worst mistake ever. Iron was hot then, they shoulda finished the job. As far as those pansies in Europe and Asia, we need to start cashing in on some IOUs FROM WW2 .
Chiz
We should have finished it off. I still dont know why we never did. The PGW was stupid if we couldn't reach our objective, right when we were at the the entrance of Baghdad. By not finishing it off, we were ethically and morally irresponsible (according to Machiavellian thought)
That does not make us wrong.
Yes I know, but I was just pointing out the UN has a terrible track record for fixing problems.
I refuse to be governed by an organization that we do not elect.
Willing to wait another 10 or 20 years to judge? We have trying the inspection route for 12 now.
I think the goverment should be looking for such connections with any country, not just iraq. Snippet I heard on the radio the other day, the US goverment has over 100 credible reports of iraq and Al queda working together. Should we ignore reports like this because iraq says they are not true, or should we investigate them more?
My patience for counties that openly support terrorist is gone.
If not now, when? Today is bad, but tommorow is better?
The key word there is running, and we need to keep them on the run.
I could care less how europe and asia thinks we should handle countries that support terrorists. If Europe and Asia want to submit to Islamic radical, that is their problem.
House sales remain strong
Unemployment is flattening out
consumer confidense is up
inventories are shrinking
productivity up 5% last quarter
Economy grew at 3.1% last quarter
Walmart has record sales of $1.4B friday after turkey day.
Most economist agree this will not be a double dip recession.
what is this thin ice you are talking about?
But we did reach our objective, which was to free Kuwait, although it should have been topple Saddam, but I believe Bush was wise to end the war when he did. Else we would have been fighting a war with ever changing objectives, which we already done and lost in the 60s and 70s.
We never did because we bowed to UN and world pressure. So should we bow again so you can complain again later?
world support aint going to get us into Baghdad, it still going to need the grunts that's going to occupy a very large city in a hostile environment. But I agree with you, we should have done it, had it been a clear objective in the beginning. But I doubt the American public would have the support for it before 9/11
I just had to chime in about someone posting earlier in the thread saying how we should not attack without full UN support out of respect for the UN....well, the UN, thanks to Iraq and other nations that blatantly violate its mandates, is slowly becoming a non-entity, and so the people who swear by the UN better hope that the US gets up and holds countires accountable (Iraq's violatons of multiple UN mandates for example), lest we have another LON on our hands.
last post of the night...
1) Does'nt make us wrong, but SHOULD make us think. Definitely means that we aren't clearly right, either.
2) We took part in creating the U.N. in 1945 with a charter signed by us, China, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and France. How can, as a model nation, expect others to follow U.N. guidelines if we do not?
3) You heard of 100 credible reports of a connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq? I have yet to hear one. I think most people on here have yet to hear of one. If you have any links it would be appreciated. If there is a positive link, then my feelings may change on this matter. Until then, i still believe what i have said.
5) Al Qaeda is hardly running. They have successfully implemented about 5 world attacks since 9/11. They are still going strong, and apparently our best efforts are doing little to stop them.
6) Regarding Europe and Asia comment, we still dont know if Iraq supports terrorists. I would like to see some evidence before i say that.
7) Yeah, i'lla gree our economy is improving, but improving doesn't meant it is healthy. The economy still sucks by and large. I know lots of young people my age that are jobless, and they are smart people. A lot of them have been forced to go directly into grad school after undergrad because the jobs just aren't there. Large companies are still declaring bankruptcy every day.
support for the initial invasion, but I bet the support will wither away as CNN televise the street to street fighting our troops will face.
But I'm interested, what's your thought on North Korea?
/gets on soapbox
I personally believe that in the next decade, not only will we have to committ troops in North Korea to keep them from blowing all of us up, china will probably make a move on taiwan. Asia to me seems like the new powder keg, waiting to go off.
/gets off soapbox
1. This country would not exist if the founding fathers had taken the easy route and stuck with the majority. The majority did not want to break away with England and cause war. The world is currently wrong and we are currently right.
2. What part of the UN charter are we not following. Every country has the right to defend itself.
3. I have personally heard several reports of Iraq/Al queda connections. They are not smoking guns, but it is without a doubt mounting circumstantial evidence. It would not surprise if the goverment had over 100 credible reports of al queda/iraq connections. Credible does not mean the report the is true, but conversly means it is not false and needs further investigation.
5. So what country is AL queda currently operating in without harrasment? How many AL queda leaders have been killed or picked up lately? Their ability to operate has been degraded.
6. Hussein cuts checks to the family of every suicide bomber. This is more than enough evidence for me.
7. I agree the economy is not perfect, but it still not on thin ice. Unemployment is 6%, most economist call full employment at 5%. The tech sector was hardest hit and will need longer to recover, but overall things are looking up. To say otherwise is being a pessimist.
IN case you dont know we already have about 40k troops in South Korea and it has been that way since the "end" of the Korean war. North korea is on the virge of collapse and probably only need a little kick to make it happen.
China is interesting. We stop imports we kill 1/2 their economy. Their military by most reports is getting worse because lack of modernization of equipment.
That's what worries me, a stable north korea probably wouldn't try to cast its dice in a game of chance, but one that's near collapse, its leadership might just try it. But china, I don't know if the import sancition would do anything major, by sheer numbers they might be able to make it to taiwan, hell if not, they do have a good number of nukes and the ability to hit taiwan with them.
Nukes??? You'd crater Taiwan with 1, its like the size of Long Island. China's into saber rattling. Give 'em another 10 years and one of the last bastions of communism will fall.
Chiz
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
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Excuse me, but collateral damage (non-military installations destroyed) was unavoidable when Iraqi communications centers revolved around there installations. Special forces had all but destroyed any remote communications targets and F-117s hit the most hardened centers so quickly that Iraqi commanders were desperate to rebuild their communications network. Every attempt ended in a quick decapitation of the network. They resorted to burying their communications network around their civilian facilities as but another desperate attempt. The U.S. showed its resolve by hitting these civilian centers; military targets - even surrounded by human shields - are fair game in war-time.
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