My niece has boyfriend from Pakistan

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
They met on some online dating service, she went over to meet him in Dubai, actually several times, they fell in love, then she got him over here by using a lawyer (which is another long horror story in itself), and now they are legally American married.
The thing is.... he is such a nice guy. Extremely intelligent, speaks english quite well, the most decent fellow I've met in a long time.
Naturally he misses his family back in Pakistan, but they do video conference every day.
And his mom really misses him. She worries that America is treating him ok.
And his two sisters, one a teacher and the other in school, both are incredible pretty.
I was amazed at how they dress, and so very colorful.

My niece new hubby lived in some small village over in Pakistan, with his entire family, and listening to his stories about life over there is something everyone should experience.
Americans are so damn sheltered from the outside world.
And we eat up all the crap politicians tell us to believe....
Take their language, they speak two versions commonly.
It would be compared to our speaking a proper educated english vs speaking street slang.
One language spoken as quite respectful, while the other disrespectful.
Instance... Like speaking to a stranger, "Miss, may I ask how you are today?", as the respectful version.
Compared... "Hey you! How ya going?", as some might say here.
It is taught to address the stranger with respect, that is if correctly taught the by the parents.
To set a good example.

He is quite interesting to listen to.
I asked what he thinks of Trump, and he compared that to different fingers on the hand.
Where you have some fingers that are more pronounced, while other fingers are not.
He compares it to people that might be more vocal and opinionated, compared to others less so.
Like fingers on the hand. All are different. Better to be accepting and tolerant.
He's very easy going and doesn't let much upset him. He accepts differences and understands that some people will be more harsh and opinionated, while others more down to earth.
As with fingers on the hand, everyone is different. Really quite interesting way of putting it.

He is amazed how isolated people over here in America really are in comparison to the rest of the world. Our lack of knowledge for other cultures and of other peoples.
He learned english in Pakistan by working as a painter in homes with english speaking owners and working with english speaking Pakistani co-workers.
He has another little story or comparison using an elephant as the example.
He talks about a baby elephant with it's foot chained to a tree.
The baby can not break the chain. But as the elephant grows to adult, the adult elephant could easily break away but is conditioned with thinking the chain still controls it.
Conditioned to think it doesn't have the strength to break away.

He compared the isolation of Americans to the elephant.
All we know is our way of life, and we really have no idea of how other cultures operate or care to learn, other than what politicians might occasionally brain wash us into believing.
He didn't say that himself, but I got the point.
That a politician like Trump can come along and convince everyone that all middle eastern's are murders, rapist, and terrorist.
And we eat it up as truth because we just don't know any better.
We never cared to learn outside the box. Were never taught or educated to believe anything different.
And the same goes internally with our understanding of minorities, of anyone different.
Many whites are brain washed into thinking blacks are inferior, that gays are evil, and Mexicans are all criminals. Talk about dense.
Americans believe this because we have always been confined within our little world.
We grew up in all white neighborhoods, attended all white schools, and that was the way it was.
And while a lot has changed internally, not much has changed externally as far as the world operates.
To simply put it, we're idiots and too lazy to care or learn. (my words, not his)

Take guns....
Over in Pakistan you must have a permit.
Anyone can own a gun, as long as they have a current permit.
The thing is.... you can not take that gun around in public unless you have a good reason.
For instance, his father in Pakistan is a jeweler and he carries a gun, legally.
He owns a shop and carries jewels and money for his business.
His carrying a gun outside of the home is justified.
But if you are a Pakistani gun owner but have so legitimate reason to carry your gun around in public, you can not do that.
Should you own a gun, the permit must be current, not expired.
Kind of makes sense that you can own a gun for protection in the home, but that gun must remain inside the home unless you have a damn good and legitimate reason to take it outside in public.
And naturally, they have very little gun violence over there.
No mass shootings, no school shootings, no killing of cops.

Take their laws for crime and punishment over in Pakistan.
Over here, for murder we lock the criminal like Charles Masson up for 40+ years.
We the taxpayer feed him, provide the roof over his head, give him free healthcare and free internet.
Compared to Pakistan, over there if you commit a crime you are punished, and not only severely but quickly.
No wasting the taxpayer years and years of legal challenges in the courts.
Over there, the first time that you steal you are maybe fined and or reprimanded.
Dare steal again?
Next time the punishment is a severed hand. Usually that hand cut off in public for all to witness.

If you murder, you are beheaded. Plain and simple.
Only if the family of the victim forgives can one escape death for committing a death of another.
And that beheading carried out in short order, none of that years and years stuck in the courts and lost in the legal system.

The parents?
Pakistani people resect their parents, the elderly.
Especially the culture living within the small villages.
Villages, they have so such thing as nursing homes to stick mom and dad away when old.
The family cares for the elderly, and in the family home.
He also spoke of bathing his grandmother, rubbing her feet when she hurt.
They take full care of the parents and the grandparents in their old age. None of that sticking them away into a nursing home.
The Pakistani culture is taught and raised to respect the elderly.

And the food?
They have some KFC and McDonalds, but few ever eat there or care to afford to.
Typically, the mother goes to the local market daily or weekly to buy fresh items for the dinner.
No fast food, no junk food.
With the household upkeep, the entire family pitches in.
The kid not locked up in their room playing video games all day.
The kids help cook, they help clean, and they pitch in without being told or threatened to.

Should and when people visit, they are made to feel at home.
They are offered to dine with the family, or offered drink, given full hospitality.
Which I know is every much like the culture of the asian people as well.

I found it embarrassing to compare our culture to their culture.
How we treat our elderly and treat our own parents in their senior years of declining health.
How our politicians talk about "returning to those good old days" and "make America great again".
Great? Do they even know great?
Well political blowhards.... just consider the Pakistani culture if you want that taste of the past.
A return to that era of mom in the kitchen, dad at the office, respectful kids, and parents that really care.
Those days of:
No tolerance for crime.
Families caring about and for each other.
No mass shooting of kids or co workers or cops or for simply walking down the street.
Eating healthy, no junk.
And if a doctor visit is necessary, one doesn't need go bankrupt paying the bill.

Make America Great Again? Hmmmmm....
Maybe we can take a lesson. Within reason.
 
Last edited:

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
201
106
They met on some online dating service, she went over to meet him in Dubai, actually several times, they fell in love, then she got him over here by using a lawyer (which is another long horror story in itself), and now they are legally American married.
The thing is.... he is such a nice guy. Extremely intelligent, speaks english quite well, the most decent fellow I've met in a long time.
Naturally he misses his family back in Pakistan, but they do video conference every day.
And his mom really misses him. She worries that America is treating him ok.
And his two sisters, one a teacher and the other in school, both are incredible pretty.
I was amazed at how they dress, and so very colorful.

My niece new hubby lived in some small village over in Pakistan, with his entire family, and listening to his stories about life over there is something everyone should experience.
Americans are so damn sheltered from the outside world.
And we eat up all the crap politicians tell us to believe....
Take their language, they speak two versions commonly.
It would be compared to our speaking a proper educated english vs speaking street slang.
One language spoken as quite respectful, while the other disrespectful.
Instance... Like speaking to a stranger, "Miss, may I ask how you are today?", as the respectful version.
Compared... "Hey you! How ya going?", as some might say here.
It is taught to address the stranger with respect, that is if correctly taught the by the parents.
To set a good example.

He is quite interesting to listen to.
I asked what he thinks of Trump, and he compared that to different fingers on the hand.
Where you have some fingers that are more pronounced, while other fingers are not.
He compares it to people that might be more vocal and opinionated, compared to others less so.
Like fingers on the hand. All are different. Better to be accepting and tolerant.
He's very easy going and doesn't let much upset him. He accepts differences and understands that some people will be more harsh and opinionated, while others more down to earth.
As with fingers on the hand, everyone is different. Really quite interesting way of putting it.

He is amazed how isolated people over here in America really are in comparison to the rest of the world. Our lack of knowledge for other cultures and of other peoples.
He learned english in Pakistan by working as a painter in homes with english speaking owners and working with english speaking Pakistani co-workers.
He has another little story or comparison using an elephant as the example.
He talks about a baby elephant with it's foot chained to a tree.
The baby can not break the chain. But as the elephant grows to adult, the adult elephant could easily break away but is conditioned with thinking the chain still controls it.
Conditioned to think it doesn't have the strength to break away.

He compared the isolation of Americans to the elephant.
All we know is our way of life, and we really have no idea of how other cultures operate or care to learn, other than what politicians might occasionally brain wash us into believing.
He didn't say that himself, but I got the point.
That a politician like Trump can come along and convince everyone that all middle eastern's are murders, rapist, and terrorist.
And we eat it up as truth because we just don't know any better.
We never cared to learn outside the box. Were never taught or educated to believe anything different.
And the same goes internally with our understanding of minorities, of anyone different.
Many whites are brain washed into thinking blacks are inferior, that gays are evil, and Mexicans are all criminals. Talk about dense.
Americans believe this because we have always been confined within our little world.
We grew up in all white neighborhoods, attended all white schools, and that was the way it was.
And while a lot has changed internally, not much has changed externally as far as the world operates.
To simply put it, we're idiots and too lazy to care or learn. (my words, not his)

Take guns....
Over in Pakistan you must have a permit.
Anyone can own a gun, as long as they have a current permit.
The thing is.... you can not take that gun around in public unless you have a good reason.
For instance, his father in Pakistan is a jeweler and he carries a gun, legally.
He owns a shop and carries jewels and money for his business.
His carrying a gun outside of the home is justified.
But if you are a Pakistani gun owner but have so legitimate reason to carry your gun around in public, you can not do that.
Should you own a gun, the permit must be current, not expired.
Kind of makes sense that you can own a gun for protection in the home, but that gun must remain inside the home unless you have a damn good and legitimate reason to take it outside in public.
And naturally, they have very little gun violence over there.
No mass shootings, no school shootings, no killing of cops.

Take their laws for crime and punishment over in Pakistan.
Over here, for murder we lock the criminal like Charles Masson up for 40+ years.
We the taxpayer feed him, provide the roof over his head, give him free healthcare and free internet.
Compared to Pakistan, over there if you commit a crime you are punished, and not only severely but quickly.
No wasting the taxpayer years and years of legal challenges in the courts.
Over there, the first time that you steal you are maybe fined and or reprimanded.
Dare steal again?
Next time the punishment is a severed hand. Usually that hand cut off in public for all to witness.

If you murder, you are beheaded. Plain and simple.
Only if the family of the victim forgives can one escape death for committing a death of another.
And that beheading carried out in short order, none of that years and years stuck in the courts and lost in the legal system.

The parents?
Pakistani people resect their parents, the elderly.
Especially the culture living within the small villages.
Villages, they have so such thing as nursing homes to stick mom and dad away when old.
The family cares for the elderly, and in the family home.
He also spoke of bathing his grandmother, rubbing her feet when she hurt.
They take full care of the parents and the grandparents in their old age. None of that sticking them away into a nursing home.
The Pakistani culture is taught and raised to respect the elderly.

And the food?
They have some KFC and McDonalds, but few ever eat there or care to afford to.
Typically, the mother goes to the local market daily or weekly to buy fresh items for the dinner.
No fast food, no junk food.
With the household upkeep, the entire family pitches in.
The kid not locked up in their room playing video games all day.
The kids help cook, they help clean, and they pitch in without being told or threatened to.

Should and when people visit, they are made to feel at home.
They are offered to dine with the family, or offered drink, given full hospitality.
Which I know is every much like the culture of the asian people as well.

I found it embarrassing to compare our culture to their culture.
How we treat our elderly and treat our own parents in their senior years of declining health.
How our politicians talk about "returning to those good old days" and "make America great again".
Great? Do they even know great?
Well political blowhards.... just consider the Pakistani culture if you want that taste of the past.
A return to that era of mom in the kitchen, dad at the office, respectful kids, and parents that really care.
Those days of:
No tolerance for crime.
Families caring about and for each other.
No mass shooting of kids or co workers or cops or for simply walking down the street.
Eating healthy, no junk.
And if a doctor visit is necessary, one doesn't need go bankrupt paying the bill.

Make America Great Again? Hmmmmm....
Maybe we can take a lesson. Within reason.


Can you comment on why it is he moved here and not the other way around then? It sounds to me like where he came from is a wonderful place and by your account, America is a shit hole.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,817
9,027
136
WTF? Pakistan is not a model to follow for socioeconomic or political stability. Their courts are barely functioning, what with the military stepping in and removing judges whenever they want. Didn't the prime minister just get away with massive corruption?

My guess is niece's boyfriend's family is part of the elite class in Pakistan, who don't have to worry about corrupt police, courts or bureaucracy because they can always bribe their way out of any situation if need be.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,432
6,090
126
Can you comment on why it is he moved here and not the other way around then? It sounds to me like where he came from is a wonderful place and by your account, America is a shit hole.
I'm betting on a three letter guess. Care to guess what mine is?
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
294
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
Our courts are slow because accusation and proof aren't the same thing. Time and care must be taken to be sure not to convict the wrong man, and even then we sometimes get it wrong. Cutting off a lot of quickly judged hands and heads isn't what I'd personally look up to.

I understand other points though. We can be very shortsighted. And Americans aren't always appreciated in foreign countries since we blunder around the world with often baffling foreign policy, as an entitled, egotistical, incredibly powerful society would. We haven't shaken the image of the "ugly American" in many places, including at home with unimaginable leaders and their staunch, myopic defenders.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,204
12,852
136
Can you comment on why it is he moved here and not the other way around then? It sounds to me like where he came from is a wonderful place and by your account, America is a shit hole.
I think the piece is about not all out of Pakistan is taliban or isis
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,432
6,090
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I think the piece is about not all out of Pakistan is taliban or isis
Not me. I think it's about the fact that my great country whose flag I have pledged allegiance to from the time I was knee high to a duck, and for which my parents who loved me so dearly expected I would lay my life down for in some remote desert or jungle, has been unfavorably been compared to some third world backwater that worships some fake god. I am deeply, I say, deeply insulted And the OP posted it for no other reason than to insult me knowing that everything about me that makes me the best person in the world is due precisely and only to the fact that I'm an American. He knew full well it would piss me off, the bastard.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,017
2,860
136
I think there is merit in a lot of what you say, and I'm worried that it is too easily discounted. The post reads as a profession that Pakistani culture is superior and more productive than American culture. Such an absolute is demonstrably false. As false as the automatic assumption that American ideas are central for which is the basis of your criticism.
 
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jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,022
357
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Wow, and I thought my kids treat me pretty well as I age. You get what you give.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,204
12,852
136
Not me. I think it's about the fact that my great country whose flag I have pledged allegiance to from the time I was knee high to a duck, and for which my parents who loved me so dearly expected I would lay my life down for in some remote desert or jungle, has been unfavorably been compared to some third world backwater that worships some fake god. I am deeply, I say, deeply insulted And the OP posted it for no other reason than to insult me knowing that everything about me that makes me the best person in the world is due precisely and only to the fact that I'm an American. He knew full well it would piss me off, the bastard.
You need the sarcasm tag, not everyone is gonna pick it up.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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As a person who's spent months of my life in Pakistan and has a large amount of cousins and family living there, I'm going to use some of that capital to say that almost everything you said is utter nonsense.

Pakistanis are known to be easily duped into believing outlandish conspiracy theories (though in part because many about Pakistan itself tend to be true; politicians and their version of the CIA really do control everything). Their local diet is horribly unhealthy and has led to critically high levels of diabetes. Domestic, political and sectarian violence is at levels seen rarely anywhere else in the world. The rule of law is incredibly battered and bent. Nobody pays taxes and as a result public infrastructure is nearly nonexistent. And their hatred of other races and cultures (hate Hindus and India, hate other Muslim nations and non-Sunni sects, hate white people, hate black people, actually rather fond of China) is astounding.

To this day it's been an utter failure of a nation. There are good people in every country but to think Pakistan is a model of culture and civilization is the silliest thing I've heard in ages.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,050
7,978
136
People have merits and flaws everywhere, and obviously there are plenty of ways in which Pakistani people show their strengths and virtues. But Pakistan as a nation-state is one of the most dysfunctional, corrupt and troubled in the world. It was, after all, founded on a contradiction, on a cynical alliance between theocrats who wanted a religious state and upper class land-owners who just wanted to avoid Indian land reform. And it was born out of the horrendous trauma of Partition. It lacks the distinct cultural/linguistic identity that, say, Bangladesh, has, and so is hugely susceptible to Saudi Wahhabi influence as it only really has religion to distinguish itself from India. Pakistanis consequently seem to be far more prone to Islamist influences than are Bangladeshis or Indian Muslims.

Of course, my country (Britain) has quite a lot of responsibility for the sorry condition of Pakistan, and the US's involvement hasn't been particularly helpful since. But come on, how can anyone pretend it's a wonderful place to live?

I suppose, though, in a similar way, the US's multiple problems go back to the trauma and dishonesty involved in its founding and creation (slavery, ethnic cleansing...), that is something it has in common with Pakistan in qualitative terms if not really to the same degree. But I don't think there's much comparison when it comes which is more difficult to live in now.


On reflection, I suppose you could argue that the comparison (if you somehow bracket out all the massive contingent historical problems of Pakistan which add a whole other level of downsides) emphasises that individualism vs community its a bit of a zero-sum game - for every benefit there can be a loss.
 
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bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
294
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
Not me. I think it's about the fact that my great country whose flag I have pledged allegiance to from the time I was knee high to a duck, and for which my parents who loved me so dearly expected I would lay my life down for in some remote desert or jungle, has been unfavorably been compared to some third world backwater that worships some fake god. I am deeply, I say, deeply insulted And the OP posted it for no other reason than to insult me knowing that everything about me that makes me the best person in the world is due precisely and only to the fact that I'm an American. He knew full well it would piss me off, the bastard.
:). I wonder what every "red blooded" American thinks is the color of dissenting, democratic, concerned peoples' blood.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,204
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:). I wonder what every "red blooded" American thinks is the color of dissenting, democratic, concerned peoples' blood.
We are the same damn people, same race, same DNA, only difference is our cultural infrastructure. Man can be so many things.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,432
6,090
126
We are the same damn people, same race, same DNA, only difference is our cultural infrastructure. Man can be so many things.
Rubbish. If you want to know how completely and totally different, utterly abhorrent and inferior a Pakistani is, ask an Indian. He or she will also be able to tell you a bit about the British.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Pakistan is awesome, guns are bad, America sucks... got it. I think you should consider moving to Pakistan.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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Cultures are never all bad or all good. For sure some are better than others. A major reason Pakistan is the way it is stems from its culture. Yes, the US has a gun culture (among other issues) that leads to use have massively higher gun violence. That said, Pakistan has about a 60% larger murder rate than compared to the US. If you want to a la carte traits you like and pit that against the things you dislike in other cultures then by my guest. I would suggest that every culture be broken down into individual parts and viewed how those parts culminate into the overall "culture".
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,945
6,531
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Why is it tools insist on calling others tools?

Probably a low life rich brat tool at that.