My new IBM ThinkPad T41 - making strange noises?

[Keyz316]

Hey guys --

I recently ordered an IBM ThinkPad T41 notebook (default config with an added 512mb ram), since the general consensus on all the forums/reviews I read was that IBMs (in particular the T series) were among the best quality notebooks money could buy (that and the PowerBook, which I decided against since I didn't feel up to switching platforms). I have to travel daily so a tough reliable notebook is very important to me.

Anyhow I got the T41 a few weeks ago, but I've only actually "had" it in my possession for a few days of that time - I had to send it in for repair practically as soon as I switched it on. It apparently had (er... has) some electrical problems. I'm a very experienced computer user/builder, so I know lots about computers, though I don't know a lot about the intricacies of electricity, so maybe what I think are problems are normal - I just don't know.

The problems:

• The harddrive makes a fast series of 7 pulsing/clicking noises, in 5 second increments. It's not standard accessing or spindle noise (it makes "other" noises for those). It's not very loud, though tedious on one's sanity while in a quiet room and trying to concentrate on working - I'm mostly concerned it could be an early sign of the drive failing. I've never heard a remotely similar noise from any other desktop/notebook drive I've seen before. It happened even with all extra programs End Tasked (so it's probably not something disk caching), and continued to occur after a clean system restore.
  
• There is an electrical buzzing noise coming from the left/back side by the USB ports and power plug, which occurs when on battery power only. The buzz also responds audibly in intensity while using the touchpad or eraserhead mouse. Before I sent it in for repair, it made an even louder electrical "crackling" sound. It doesn't occur when the unit is plugged into the AC adaptor, and also strangely it does not occur while a USB device is plugged in.
  
• If the unit's volume is turned up all the way (i.e. if I were watching a DVD or something), static noise suddenly begins emitting from the notebook's speakers. It happens only on the top physical/button notch of volume (windows' volume controls have no effect on it). The noise can't be detected easily under the sound of the movie/etc, so I'm not super concerned; though if no other loud sound is present to mask it, it's quite loud.
  
• A high-frequency pitch occurs from the bottom of the unit while it is plugged in and OFF (happens both with and without the battery installed). It's no issue at all during the day, though very noticeable when trying to get to sleep in the same room (sounds like constant ringing in my ears). It also makes a similar noise while in hibernation mode, though I think that might be normal.

Anyhow....... this is my first notebook, and I have limited access to any other notebooks to check out and compare with. Are these problems normal? When I sent it in for repair, IBM evidently swapped out its motherboard, but other than making the "loud crackling" noise near the USB ports into more of a "line noise" type of sound, none of the other issues have changed (even though I sent them a very detailed page on how to duplicate and listen for the problems).

I could be overreacting I guess, though I don't feel like the extra money I spent on IBM (so far) was money well spent (compared to going with others like Dell, HP, Acer, etc). I went with IBM with the sole hope of avoiding issues exactly like these. As I mentioned, I've already sent it in once for repair and the problem (only one of several) was only marginally fixed. I don't want to be obsessive or anything, though $2200 is a lot of money, especially when you're in college.

So are these problems common/normal? Should I return it? Demand an exchange for a completely new one?

Thanks.

 

[Pandaren]

I own a T40. Maybe I can answer some of your questions.

(1) Hard Drive - I have used a notebook (Dell D600) with a Hitachi Travelstar 40 GB, 5400 RPM drive, and it did make beeping/clicking noises not related to disk seeking/reading. But the noise was not like you describe. Have you tried turning off the active protection system? Some people here and at ThinkPads.com have reported problems with APS.

(2) Battery Buzz - My T40 has this too. This problem is as far as I can determine present on some computers that use the 855 series chipset. More specifically, disabling power management on the USB Root Hub (you can do this in the windows control panel) causes the noise to go away, but also increases power consumption of the unit. This is either an ICH4-M problem, or a Windows driver problem. I saw a report of the exact same problem on the Dell D500 and Inspiron 4150.

(3) Speakers - I've tested DVDs and I have had no problems with the speakers outputting static.

(4) High Frequency Noise - I get noise (pulsing, high pitch) when my T40 is on battery and goes into standby. I always use hibernate though so it doesn't bother me all that much.

$2200 is a lot of money - I would either return it or ask for an exchange. One word of caution to future notebook buyers - first revision stuff will almost always have bugs. This applies to pretty much all manufacturers (Dell, IBM, Apple, HP). I learned this from extensive testing & fixing of my own T40. Consequently, I'd advise people buying an expensive (more than $1500) machine to wait 4-6 months after release date before buying.

The T40 is pretty much a safe bet now I think. The T41 should have been a safe bet since it is mostly the same as the T40, but I've never used a T41, so I can't speak for them.

 

[Keyz316]

Thanks Pandaren for the detailed reply

(1) Hard Drive - on this one I think I'll sit it out a few more days and see what happens. I did actually disable active drive protection as well during my testing, and that didn't seem to be the cause (unless while disabled it still has some effect on the drive). I'm getting the feeling it's an issue specifically with (this) Hitachi drive model. It's seemed more sporadic today for some reason, maybe a good sign. I'm not holding my breath though. As a better description of the sound..... imagine a sort of "s" sound as in "Sand", with a bit of a "T" mixed in... pulsing about 7 times within well under a second, then reoccuring in the same way typically in 5 second increments (though sometimes closer or further apart). If I could isolate a single instance of the pulse, I might think it sounded a bit like the ticking of the second hand on a mechanical clock/watch. Maybe I can get IBM to give me a completely different type of drive, if they'd like to keep me as a customer (unless active drive protection relies specifically on Hitachi drives).

(2) Battery Buzz - This worked! Thanks. I found 4 instances of USB Root Hub listed in Device Manager, and disabled the Power Management setting on only the first of them (I intended to do them one at a time, and listen carefully after each, to be thorough).... but after the first one, the sound stopped (it's now audible only by putting my ear directly on the port itself, and it's only the most slight near-silent static, no problem). I'm curious as to what degree the battery life will be affected by this... just a few minutes, or more serious? The T-series has some headroom in the battery department over most competition, so I think I can live with it if it's not too much. That explains then why the noise went away when a USB device was plugged in - I didn't even know before that it was actually turning the port off when there were no devices plugged in. It sounds also like something that "could" be fixed in the future by a new firmware or driver fix... so I'm hopeful they'll get their act together and fix it. If this issue is common to the certain chipset or driver, then I'm guessing even a new replacement would have the same problem (as well as any number of alternative notebooks from other vendors). I'm pretty likely to have a portable mouse plugged into the USB port anyhow most of the time, since I do graphic design (quite challenging with the normal laptop pointing devices haha) - so it might not matter either way.
How long does your battery usually last by the way? I'm not sure mine is quite up to par (I think about 3 hours max on mine, not that I've had much chance to test that out haha).

(3) Speakers - I'm not 100% sure, but maybe I'll be ok with this.... I plan to use the notebook partly for recording (I'm also a musician), so I intend to get an external highend audio interface (and an external higher-speed hard drive). I am a little nervous though that the junk from the internal sound might leak into my signal and contaminate my recordings. On the virtual mixing console in my audio production program, I saw an extremely high noise floor. So far as being able to turn volume only up to 13 instead of 14, not a super huge deal. I'll ask IBM about this though, since I didn't discover this until after it was returned from being "repaired", so it wasn't addressed in my outline of the problems.

(4) High Frequency Noise - I'm glad it's not just me... I figured this was more than likely normal while hibrinating.... still a little odd though that it happens (to a lesser degree) as well while the unit is fully off. I suppose I could toss a towel over it or something to muffle the sound on nights it needs to be charged haha.

Anyhow.... wish me luck in sorting the rest of this out. I really don't "want" to give up my ThinkPad to go with another brand if I can help it, since... well I tend to get queezy just looking at the junk most other companies are putting out. I'm also keen on dual booting with Linux, which I understand IBMs are pretty good at. The ThinkPad is thin/light, durable (other than the plastic on the inside around the keyboard area, which is a tad thin and creaky), has a quiet and smart CPU fan, a terrific-feeling keyboard, pretty long battery life, crisp screen (only drawback is a narrow viewing angle), ThinkLight, and I never thought it would happen, but I'm completely in love with the TrackPoint (eraserhead - though I use the new rubber one).

Again, thanks for helping (especially with the USB noise issue). If you have any further tips, I'm all ears
Peace.

 

[cy7878]

Having owned 5 TPs in the last 5 years, let me share my $0.02.

Fiest of all, the IBM drives has what is called thermal calibration, that gives off the clicking sound which you describe. Kinda like the old Mac Qauntum drives which clicks. On the other hand, 2 of my TP HDs failed after about 3 years of service, and they started to click more and take longer to access data. I think just that failing drives calibrates more than new. but the clicking is something that they all do.

The electrical noise, likely is a design problem. I had a noise with the TP240 I had. It is quite common and apparently nothing can make it go away. I had sent the unit back 3 times under warranty and IBM refused to achknowledge there is a problem. As far as refund goes. IBM does not ever give refunds.

Although I love TPs and probably will also buy IBM. I now make it a rule to physically see the units before I buy, just so I can inspect the model for any quarks which may exist, after all, I am paying a premium.

 

[cy7878]

Having owned 5 TPs in the last 5 years, let me share my $0.02.

Fiest of all, the IBM drives has what is called thermal calibration, that gives off the clicking sound which you describe. Kinda like the old Mac Qauntum drives which clicks. On the other hand, 2 of my TP HDs failed after about 3 years of service, and they started to click more and take longer to access data. I think just that failing drives calibrates more than new. but the clicking is something that they all do.

The electrical noise, likely is a design problem. I had a noise with the TP240 I had. It is quite common and apparently nothing can make it go away. I had sent the unit back 3 times under warranty and IBM refused to achknowledge there is a problem. As far as refund goes. IBM does not ever give refunds.

Although I love TPs and probably will also buy IBM. I now make it a rule to physically see the units before I buy, just so I can inspect the model for any quarks which may exist, after all, I am paying a premium.

 

[cy7878]

Having owned 5 TPs in the last 5 years, let me share my $0.02.

Fiest of all, the IBM drives has what is called thermal calibration, that gives off the clicking sound which you describe. Kinda like the old Mac Qauntum drives which clicks. On the other hand, 2 of my TP HDs failed after about 3 years of service, and they started to click more and take longer to access data. I think just that failing drives calibrates more than new. but the clicking is something that they all do.

The electrical noise, likely is a design problem. I had a noise with the TP240 I had. It is quite common and apparently nothing can make it go away. I had sent the unit back 3 times under warranty and IBM refused to achknowledge there is a problem. As far as refund goes. IBM does not ever give refunds.

Although I love TPs and probably will also buy IBM. I now make it a rule to physically see the units before I buy, just so I can inspect the model for any quarks which may exist, after all, I am paying a premium.