My new i7 7700K build, please critique.

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iamgenius

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Jun 6, 2008
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Hi to all,

This is my earlier thread regarding this:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-for-showing-off-and-bragging-rights.2492908/

I'm now very much decided on everything except for the RAM. Here is my list

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NV4kzM

I want 64 GB of ram, but what would be the best speed ram I should get for best overclocking. I'm kinda of lost here. I'm out of the loop. I remember the old days when the CPU speed is the product of the BCLK (or FSB) and the CPU multiplier and for RAM you choose the right multiplier and multiply it by FSB to get to the RAM rated advertised speed or 1:1 FSB:RAM ratio. Of course by increasing FSB you can also overclock the CPU and RAM. If you up the FSB and you don't want to overclock the ram, you can lower its multiplier. Something like this.....I can't fully remember. Higher speed ram will ease the overclock as a result.

Is it still the same way?

What RAM do you recommend me to get and what speed for my purposes? I can go higher on ram speeds, but only if necessary or logical. Is the kit in my list any good?
 
Conroe

Conroe

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Mar 12, 2006
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RAM speed is not tied to the overclock. Pick someting off QVL of the Maximus IX Formula. Still running four sticks might hinder your overclock.
 
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I

iamgenius

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Jun 6, 2008
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whm1974 said:
I don't think DDR4 goes that high at this time unless it's ECC.
Click to expand...
There is none based on my search.

I know that ram speed is not tied to the overclock because my cpu has an unlocked multiplier, but is there any disadvantage in going for higher speed ram? And vice versa, will higher speed ram give me any advantage or any performance gains?

Thanks
 
I

iamgenius

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Jun 6, 2008
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And yeah, why does filling all RAM slots still hinder overclocking if the cpu is unlocked and you will only change its multiplier.....I mean RAM will be running at stock.

Thanks.
 
UsandThem

UsandThem

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May 4, 2000
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iamgenius said:
And yeah, why does filling all RAM slots still hinder overclocking if the cpu is unlocked and you will only change its multiplier.....I mean RAM will be running at stock.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Because the memory controller is on the CPU, and some are better than others (aka winning the silicone lottery).

Populating all four slots with fast RAM (it's why they have 'OC' next to all speeds over default) is tougher on the memory controller. Some will work just fine, some will force you to lower the speed for stability.
 
EliteRetard

EliteRetard

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Mar 6, 2006
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I saw your build list and price...and to me it sure looked like you could get a lot more bang for your buck.

So I went and configured a system with a water-cooled 6850k, and water-cooled SLI GTX1080 for the same price.

Because you can fit 2x GTX1080 in the budget, I thought it was wise to also add more cores to feed them.
The reason I chose the 6850 over the 6800 was for the extra PCI-E lanes (40 vs 28). Though you could perhaps get away with an x8-x8 + x4 PCI-E with a 6800 and put the extra $200 toward a larger PCI-E SSD. I also wanted to point out the siliconlottery option (for those who don't know), a "guaranteed" 4.5Ghz 6850k for $570 https://siliconlottery.com/collections/2011-3/products/6850k45g

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fvYjbj
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fvYjbj/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-6850K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($578.18 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX X99 GAMING ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($319.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($384.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($249.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB FTW Hybrid Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($679.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB FTW Hybrid Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($679.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Define S ATX Mid Tower Case ($57.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ B&H)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($106.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Speakers: Logitech Z623 200W 2.1ch Speakers ($125.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Total: $3394.08
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-28 20:53 EST-0500

A few more notes on the other changes:
I picked the X99 STRIX as an offer to match your other high end Asus choice (without going overboard). This unit offers USB 3.1 10gbps, M.2 PCI-E, high end audio, Intel NIC, a 2x2 AC WiFi, etc. If you want a couple extra/better features along with Thunderbolt 3, you can step up to the DeluxeII board for $80 more. As for the RAM, I kept the same 64GB but chose a more moderate speed with lower latency (15-15-15-35) running 1.2v instead of 1.35v. I did this because the system is running quad channel and should have more than enough bandwidth (and lower latency is good), and this will place less stress on the memory controllers etc. I stuck with the same size 512GB PCI-E SSD, but chose a slightly slower model for less money. The 960 EVO is another choice for the same price, and offers a similar ~90% of the 960PRO. I chose the Plextor though because it has a heatsink on it (wont matter if you can provide good airflow). As for the GPUs, I spent your original $450 water cooling budget adding in a second GPU and choosing closed loop hybrid models. The core and VRAM are water cooled on these GPU's, with the VRMs being air cooled. Using a pair of these hybrid cards required a case that could accommodate them, and here the popular Fractal brand had a good option in the Define S. This is a wide open case that can fit the CPU water-cooling up top and the pair of GPU water-coolers up front. It does have a windowed option. As for the PSU, I think 850watts is enough even for this system (600w max OC GPUs +150w max OC CPU)...but I chose a lower priced unit. The EVGA GQ 850w is rated highly http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=451 and comes with 2x 4+4 CPU cables (can be of use with X99) and has the requisite 4x 8pin PCI-E cables you'll need for these EVGA GTX1080 Hybrid cards. I also included a Win 10 license on USB key, since this case cant fit a disk drive (worst case, you can get external units). If you don't need the windows license, those funds can go towards the better MOBO and/or better/bigger SSD.
 
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I

iamgenius

Senior member
Jun 6, 2008
803
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EliteRetard said:
I saw your build list and price...and to me it sure looked like you could get a lot more bang for your buck.

So I went and configured a system with a water-cooled 6850k, and water-cooled SLI GTX1080 for the same price.

Because you can fit 2x GTX1080 in the budget, I thought it was wise to also add more cores to feed them.
The reason I chose the 6850 over the 6800 was for the extra PCI-E lanes (40 vs 28). Though you could perhaps get away with an x8-x8 + x4 PCI-E with a 6800 and put the extra $200 toward a larger PCI-E SSD. I also wanted to point out the siliconlottery option (for those who don't know), a "guaranteed" 4.5Ghz 6850k for $570 https://siliconlottery.com/collections/2011-3/products/6850k45g

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fvYjbj
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fvYjbj/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-6850K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($578.18 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX X99 GAMING ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($319.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($384.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($249.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB FTW Hybrid Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($679.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB FTW Hybrid Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($679.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Define S ATX Mid Tower Case ($57.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ B&H)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($106.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Speakers: Logitech Z623 200W 2.1ch Speakers ($125.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Total: $3394.08
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-28 20:53 EST-0500

A few more notes on the other changes:
I picked the X99 STRIX as an offer to match your other high end Asus choice (without going overboard). This unit offers USB 3.1 10gbps, M.2 PCI-E, high end audio, Intel NIC, a 2x2 AC WiFi, etc. If you want a couple extra/better features along with Thunderbolt 3, you can step up to the DeluxeII board for $80 more. As for the RAM, I kept the same 64GB but chose a more moderate speed with lower latency (15-15-15-35) running 1.2v instead of 1.35v. I did this because the system is running quad channel and should have more than enough bandwidth (and lower latency is good), and this will place less stress on the memory controllers etc. I stuck with the same size 512GB PCI-E SSD, but chose a slightly slower model for less money. The 960 EVO is another choice for the same price, and offers a similar ~90% of the 960PRO. I chose the Plextor though because it has a heatsink on it (wont matter if you can provide good airflow). As for the GPUs, I spent your original $450 water cooling budget adding in a second GPU and choosing closed loop hybrid models. The core and VRAM are water cooled on these GPU's, with the VRMs being air cooled. Using a pair of these hybrid cards required a case that could accommodate them, and here the popular Fractal brand had a good option in the Define S. This is a wide open case that can fit the CPU water-cooling up top and the pair of GPU water-coolers up front. It does have a windowed option. As for the PSU, I think 850watts is enough even for this system (600w max OC GPUs +150w max OC CPU)...but I chose a lower priced unit. The EVGA GQ 850w is rated highly http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=451 and comes with 2x 4+4 CPU cables (can be of use with X99) and has the requisite 4x 8pin PCI-E cables you'll need for these EVGA GTX1080 Hybrid cards. I also included a Win 10 license on USB key, since this case cant fit a disk drive (worst case, you can get external units). If you don't need the windows license, those funds can go towards the better MOBO and/or better/bigger SSD.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the very detailed post. I appreciate the trouble you went through to make this reply to me. I see most of your points, but I actually already bought my binned i7 7700K kaby lake from siliconlottery. Going X99 was certainly an option and was a really good one too and maybe better for my needs. I went against because I wanted to overclock the kaby lake and experience delidding this time. Plus X99 cpus are pricier. If I have taken that route, I might have ended up getting the more expensive ones ( I know myself). Also, I'm not a heavy gamer, so I probably can't justify two 1080's. Regarding the ssd, I just want the absolute fastest. I don't want windows 10 (By the way, are the privacy issues still there???), I love 8.1 with startisback shell and will continue using it, unless there is a clear driver/support issues.

I looked into the fractal case. It is not up to my tastes. I actually want the cooler master HAF X, but it is not available in local shops. That's why I'll go for the corsair 900D.

Thanks
 
I

iamgenius

Senior member
Jun 6, 2008
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I forgot to comment on the water cooling kit. I know it is crazy and overkill, but I don't think I can resist. Anyways, I can't think I can fit that into the trooper! Only the 900D can take that. Now I don't know what to do.o_O
 
EliteRetard

EliteRetard

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2006
6,490
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They make kits with smaller radiators. Looks like the biggest that trooper case could take is 2x120mm or a "240mm" radiator but it's not water cooling friendly. You don't really need much for a 7700k, so it might still work going with the cheaper case and a smaller water cooling kit (and it saves you lots of money). If you plan to add a GPU and/or anything else into the loop, then you'll probably want more than a 240mm. Being a custom open loop means you can add on to the system, so you could add another 240mm radiator or an extra pump or whatever...so you don't need to do it all at once.

Perhaps there's a case between those two that would work better? The 900D is big and expensive but water cooling friendly, the trooper is cheap and not so water friendly. Maybe there's something that can fit two medium radiators, or a 360mm unit priced between those two options.

Perhaps visit the cases and cooling section and inquire with our water cooling experts (like Aigomorla).

Now back to your original question, since you already have the 7700k (dual channel) and since you're looking at getting an extreme amount of RAM (32GB is a lot right now, 64GB will be plenty for a long time) I suppose getting faster RAM aint a bad idea. Remember though, anything above 2400MHz right now is overclocking, and getting that much RAM to run at super high speeds is not guaranteed. Also, there are very little differences with increasing RAM speed and even more diminishing returns the faster you go. Personally I think low latency 3000MHz is the sweet spot right now, more than fast enough currently and good enough for years in the future. The kit you picked technically looks good, fast and low latency at 3400MHz CAS 16 but even if you can run it at that speed it's not going to be a real benefit for a very long time (if ever). Getting a kit one or two steps down will give you the same performance and save you money, and even these kits you may not be able to run at full speed (there's always luck involved with overclocking).

Here's an option at 3200MHz CAS 15 (still 1.35v): https://pcpartpicker.com/product/k6rcCJ/gskill-memory-f43200c15q64gvk
You could also keep an eye out for a 3000MHz kit at CAS 13 or 14, though I don't see any in stock right now (Example: Geil GLR464GB3000C13QC )
 
EliteRetard

EliteRetard

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Mar 6, 2006
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For the same price you can get this 2666MHz 1.2v kit: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bXbkcf/gskill-memory-f42666c15q64gvr
Shouldn't have a problem running at that speed, and the extra bandwidth might be worthwhile on a future platform upgrade. As long as the RAM doesn't fail, you're buying enough to be relevant for many years.

There's also a cheap 3200MHz kit, it's 1.35v and has poorer latency...but that wouldn't stop you from running it at a lower speed with better CAS. I wouldn't be surprised if it could run 2666/2800MHz around 15-15-15-35. This would give you a bit more flexability in the speed and CAS settings you have available, and if it lasts 5 years the stock CPUs may be using around 3000MHz RAM or something (unless they move to DDR5 or whatever).
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Xbkcf/gskill-memory-f43200c16q64gvk
 
Valantar

Valantar

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Aug 26, 2014
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I have to second the input on the CPU cooler. A 480mm radiator for a CPU alone is a waste on a heavily overclocked X99 system. On (even a crazy-OC) 7700K, it's plain stupid. Sure, you might get temps ~5C lower. And? It won't make your PC faster, quieter, more stable, or help you OC. Go for a 240mm or 280mm radiator, unless you plan on water cooling your GPU as well. If you do, fitting more radiators is usually easier than fitting larger radiators (far more cases can fit 2 280mm (or 240mm) rads than can fit a single 480mm - and two 280mm rads give you far more surface area).

Have you bought your PSU yet? While I understand the notion of saving $110 with going for the GQ suggested by EliteRetard, I'd stick with your original choice. It's simply the best PSU out there. Period. If you can afford it, buy it. It's really that simple. The GQ is a great value 80+ Gold PSU. But it's not a great PSU, let alone a contender for the best ever.

Also, even though you have bought your CPU, I have to add my support for more cores. If you spend time running multiple VMs, and don't do a lot of gaming (or other ST-dependent tasks), you'll get far better performance out of an 8c16t CPU. I get that OCing as far as possible is a goal in and of itself, but those 2-3-400 MHz won't help you nearly as much as even two additional cores for running VMs.
 
M

MadOver

Member
Sep 1, 2016
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I wish Ive seen Asrock announcing the OC-Formulas on the Z270... no where to be seen.
That would be a killer oc mobo to have.
 
I

iamgenius

Senior member
Jun 6, 2008
803
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Valantar said:
I have to second the input on the CPU cooler. A 480mm radiator for a CPU alone is a waste on a heavily overclocked X99 system. On (even a crazy-OC) 7700K, it's plain stupid. Sure, you might get temps ~5C lower. And? It won't make your PC faster, quieter, more stable, or help you OC. Go for a 240mm or 280mm radiator, unless you plan on water cooling your GPU as well. If you do, fitting more radiators is usually easier than fitting larger radiators (far more cases can fit 2 280mm (or 240mm) rads than can fit a single 480mm - and two 280mm rads give you far more surface area).

Have you bought your PSU yet? While I understand the notion of saving $110 with going for the GQ suggested by EliteRetard, I'd stick with your original choice. It's simply the best PSU out there. Period. If you can afford it, buy it. It's really that simple. The GQ is a great value 80+ Gold PSU. But it's not a great PSU, let alone a contender for the best ever.

Also, even though you have bought your CPU, I have to add my support for more cores. If you spend time running multiple VMs, and don't do a lot of gaming (or other ST-dependent tasks), you'll get far better performance out of an 8c16t CPU. I get that OCing as far as possible is a goal in and of itself, but those 2-3-400 MHz won't help you nearly as much as even two additional cores for running VMs.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your post. Well, at this point in time, i'm actually mad at intel. I think we should be able to combine both the speed(and ipc of course) and core count. Why are the higher core count cpus are behind in freq and ipc?

I completely see your point guys.

Regarding the PSU, still didn't buy it and yeah I'll get the prime as it is unbeatable.
 
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Valantar

Valantar

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Aug 26, 2014
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iamgenius said:
Thanks for your post. Well, at this point in time, i'm actually mad at intel. I think we should be able to combine both the speed(and ipc of course) and core count. Why are the higher core count cpus are behind in freq and ipc?
Click to expand...
Power and cooling. Selling a CPU SKU requiring more than 140W of power and cooling to match is a huge risk, as the selection of coolers able to actually cool them would be tiny, and you'd run the risk of people sticking far too small coolers on very, very hot chips.

AMD had some 225W (I think) SKUs in the FX 9XXX series - they came bundled with AIO water coolers.

In addition, the amount of motherboards able to deliver that much clean power to the cpu would be quite limited too, and Intel would either have to split their X99 line in two, or take the chance that builders actually read spec tables (which a lot of us don't).

Are Intel playing it safe? Absolutely. Could they sell 4GHz+ 8- or 10-core chips? Sure. But AMD gained nothing from going that route, and I bet that has motivated Intel to not take the chance.
 
I

iamgenius

Senior member
Jun 6, 2008
803
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Valantar said:
Power and cooling. Selling a CPU SKU requiring more than 140W of power and cooling to match is a huge risk, as the selection of coolers able to actually cool them would be tiny, and you'd run the risk of people sticking far too small coolers on very, very hot chips.

AMD had some 225W (I think) SKUs in the FX 9XXX series - they came bundled with AIO water coolers.

In addition, the amount of motherboards able to deliver that much clean power to the cpu would be quite limited too, and Intel would either have to split their X99 line in two, or take the chance that builders actually read spec tables (which a lot of us don't).

Are Intel playing it safe? Absolutely. Could they sell 4GHz+ 8- or 10-core chips? Sure. But AMD gained nothing from going that route, and I bet that has motivated Intel to not take the chance.
Click to expand...
I was going to say it is more for marketing and to maximize gains but you already said it yourself toward the end of your post. Can't they just target a tiny market segment? Enthusiastics are already only 1 percent of all computer users I think.

I also think we should be able to use dual mainstream cpus. That would be really nice.
 
Valantar

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
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iamgenius said:
I was going to say it is more for marketing and to maximize gains but you already said it yourself toward the end of your post. Can't they just target a tiny market segment? Enthusiastics are already only 1 percent of all computer users I think.

I also think we should be able to use dual mainstream cpus. That would be really nice.
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn't. The cost of implementing a stable dual CPU system for consumer chips would dramatically increase CPU prices for a feature that I'd bet >.0001 of desktop PC users would ever need. Adding features that go unused results in added silicon area, which again directly increases chip costs. Then come R&D costs, troubleshooting, more expensive chipsets, and so on. No thanks. Remember, you can't use two entry-level Xeons together either. You need an E5 for that.

And unfortunately, there's no incentive for Intel to pour what would be significant amounts of money into making a "super-enthusiast" line of X99 chips. Why? They'd have to
a) convince motherboard manufacturers to make boards certified for <200W CPUs. Which would take some money, to be sure.
b) bin chips that would otherwise go to high-margin Xeon SKUs for enthusiast use.
c) design a stock cooler for these SKUs (even if it's not bundled, there needs to be one)
d) run a certification program for coolers for these high-wattage chips
e) make sure certifications for coolers and motherboards are clearly communicated (which might necessitate a "split" in the X99 motherboard line, an expensive and confusing proposition)
f) still put aside money for the inevitable RMAs due to people still buying incompatible parts/insufficient coolers/just being dumb

And all this for products that would sell in the low thousands globally, at best. Remember, the high-end 10-core Broadwell-E chip is $1700. The high-end 8-core is $1100. Both of these are overclockable, and can usually reach 4.4GHz or more. Higher clocked chips would be significantly more expensive, due to the points above. How many $3000 CPUs do you imagine Intel would sell? Especially when you'd be 80+% sure of getting the same or better performance by buying a cheaper chip and overclocking it? I'd say none.
 
I

iamgenius

Senior member
Jun 6, 2008
803
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We
Valantar said:
No, it wouldn't. The cost of implementing a stable dual CPU system for consumer chips would dramatically increase CPU prices for a feature that I'd bet >.0001 of desktop PC users would ever need. Adding features that go unused results in added silicon area, which again directly increases chip costs. Then come R&D costs, troubleshooting, more expensive chipsets, and so on. No thanks. Remember, you can't use two entry-level Xeons together either. You need an E5 for that.

And unfortunately, there's no incentive for Intel to pour what would be significant amounts of money into making a "super-enthusiast" line of X99 chips. Why? They'd have to
a) convince motherboard manufacturers to make boards certified for <200W CPUs. Which would take some money, to be sure.
b) bin chips that would otherwise go to high-margin Xeon SKUs for enthusiast use.
c) design a stock cooler for these SKUs (even if it's not bundled, there needs to be one)
d) run a certification program for coolers for these high-wattage chips
e) make sure certifications for coolers and motherboards are clearly communicated (which might necessitate a "split" in the X99 motherboard line, an expensive and confusing proposition)
f) still put aside money for the inevitable RMAs due to people still buying incompatible parts/insufficient coolers/just being dumb

And all this for products that would sell in the low thousands globally, at best. Remember, the high-end 10-core Broadwell-E chip is $1700. The high-end 8-core is $1100. Both of these are overclockable, and can usually reach 4.4GHz or more. Higher clocked chips would be significantly more expensive, due to the points above. How many $3000 CPUs do you imagine Intel would sell? Especially when you'd be 80+% sure of getting the same or better performance by buying a cheaper chip and overclocking it? I'd say none.
Click to expand...
Well, you know better than me but still, I wish we were able to get the best of the two worlds. I guess this is the reason we are seeing systems like this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11081/ocuk-8pack-orionx-30000-usd-overclocked-dual-desktop-pc

When somebody wants to go too extreme that is.
 
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