My lovely 21" Nokia 445Pro (Trinitron tube) has died. May it RIP. :(

[Jeff7]

Would a place like Circuit City or Best Buy still stock CRTs?
It might be an arcing flyback, and I'm a bit low on time right now (multiple projects coming due, finals week soon,) so I don't really have time to deal with diagnosing and repairing a CRT, time which may turn out to be wasted anyway.

If not, *sigh* I guess I may have to switch to an LCD.

If I am forced to get an LCD, well, are there any quick and simple ones to get that are not crazily expensive, have a great response time, and are still around 21"? I am really concerned about response time, as I have yet to see an LCD that doesn't ghost, and my computer also acts as my TV, and gaming system.

My roommate said good things about some of Dell's LCDs.

 

[us3rnotfound]

It would be a tough transition for you, especially since you're looking for a 21" LCD, those will have input lag and/or some motion blur, unless you go buy a pretty expensive one.

 

[Jeff7]

How's about something like this Viewsonic VG2230wm? Is that decent? Is it obtainable from a store like Best Buy/Circuit City/etc?

5ms response time, 22", and in my price range.


Edit: Alright, Circuit City has it. Question then, is it good?

This input lag, I have heard of it. Is it common? Is it unavoidable?

 

[SparkyJJO]

What is this "input lag" thing, you mean ghosting?

I have a viewsonic VX2025wm 20.1" widescreen LCD, 8ms response time. There is a little motion blur but very little, not enough to call ghosting really IMO. About twice as fast as the LCD on my dell laptop was.

 

[Jeff7]

Ghosting is the response time of the individual pixels.
Input lag seems to refer to the time it takes for a change in input, such as moving the mouse, to register on the monitor.
There was a good WMV video somewhere of this - it showed a cursor on a CRT and an LCD, side-by-side. The cursor on the LCD lagged behind that on the CRT, which moved immediately as it should.

I found this video, maybe it'll show it. I don't have Flash on my laptop yet, so I can't view the video, and I have to ration my bandwidth carefully for the rest of the week - 2GB/week limitation, and I'm at 1.8GB.

 

[MrNeutrino]

Check out the Gateway FPD2275W or the Dell E228WFP 22" LCDs. Own the Gateway 22" LCD myself - pretty nice. Love the svideo / component / composite inputs with with Faroudja processing feature + PIP.

You sound like someone who'd hold onto a decent piece of hardware. If so, these (or the Viewsonic mentioned above) are all fairly good with unique strengths per brand. You should be happy with any of them for the most part.

 

[HyperTension]

My 19" Sony Trini died last week. I have been trying over the past 6 minths to find a suitable LCD, but have found nothing at this time that can really go toe to toe with my Trini.

Ended up buying an 22" SGI C220A for $350 from AccurateIT.com. Shipped it that day, and recieved it 2 days later. Very nice. This will hold me over for a while.

Check out their site, as I purchased a Refurb "A" with a 1 year warrenty.

 

[Jeff7]

That input lag problem worries me. I tend to notice things like that very easily. I'm the sort who wants refresh rates over 85Hz, otherwise I see flickering, so I guess I've got quick eyes.

The Samsung 225BW got a good review here. Newegg has the 226BW for $319 minus a mail in rebate.
The 225BW's input lag was around 21ms maximum.

But I don't know that I really want a widescreen monitor. If I run games without widescreen support, I guess I'd be left either with a squished-looking image, or else the equivalent of maybe a 17" screen with the "black bars" on either side.

I also found this interesting site, which appears to show images of how bad the ghosting is on various monitors. Some look pathetic, with at least two ghost images following a moving object.

I would like a CRT, but I must say, the allure of something less than 70lbs would be nice. Every time I need to move it an appreciable distance, I wind up with rather painful back spasms the next day.


Next candidate: ViewSonic Pro Series VP2030b
Good response time, not too much ghosting, and a hopefully tolerable 35ms input lag. $428 at Newegg, and a lot more expensive locally.
$519 at Circuit City, and $460 at Office Depot.
Best Buy apparently doesn't sell Viewsonic products.
I guess I'll call Office Depot and see if they'll price match.
Newegg's not on their "official list" of competitors, but we'll see. That $428 Newegg price includes shipping, so Office Depot at least has that to their advantage.

I figure that a monitor will likely last me a long time, so it's better to invest a little in it, rather than just getting something super-cheap. I bought my 445Pro in June of 2003. Not as long a life as I'd hoped, but I guess it had a fair run.

 

[MoobyTheGoldenCalf]

I had the exact same monitor as you, Nokia 445pro. It died on me about a year and a half ago. I decided to go ahead and get the 24" Dell widescreen. Man and I glad I did, it's beautiful.

 

[Jeff7]

I've read too many things about input lag on Dell's LCDs, and I've seen my roommate's. I don't like the ghosting it shows. I haven't tried it with the mouse though, so I can't comment on the input lag. I do think that I'd be quite sensitive to it though.
I'm thinking that the VP2030b will be the winner here, assuming Office Depot will kindly price match with Newegg. I guess it depends on how much they really want my money.

 

[pm]

I have two NEC 1375X 22" CRTs on my (steel reinforced) desk at home and I love them. They take DVI-D natively (lest anyone tell me this is impossible, google it first) and the image is crisp, the colors are accurate and the image is fast - although I can see the trinatron mesh wires. The only problems that I have with the CRT's are weight when I need to move them and the amount of heat they kick out. Both of them together noticeably heat up the room after a couple of hours. But the picture is beautiful and I'm not even thinking about switching to LCD's - although I suppose at some point one of my monitors will die and I will have to.

I would think that you will have a hard time buying a high-quality large CRT locally - unless you happen to live in Silicon Valley. The business industry has moved to using LCD's and the high quality CRT's are becoming very hard to find. Newegg and other online retailers still carry some - although the prices seem unchanged from when CRT's had their glory years.

You might want to see if a local TV repair ship will fix it before you give up on it entirely.

That ghosting comparison website is very interesting. Nice link. I'll bookmark it for the future - just in case.

Good luck.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: HyperTension
My 19" Sony Trini died last week. I have been trying over the past 6 minths to find a suitable LCD, but have found nothing at this time that can really go toe to toe with my Trini.

Ended up buying an 22" SGI C220A for $350 from AccurateIT.com. Shipped it that day, and recieved it 2 days later. Very nice. This will hold me over for a while.

Check out their site, as I purchased a Refurb "A" with a 1 year warrenty.

You could have bought a 20" LCD for $100 less.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Find a cheap CRT on Craigslist. It's overflowing with them here in Houston.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: pm
I have two NEC 1375X 22" CRTs on my (steel reinforced) desk at home and I love them. They take DVI-D natively (lest anyone tell me this is impossible, google it first) and the image is crisp, the colors are accurate and the image is fast - although I can see the trinatron mesh wires. The only problems that I have with the CRT's are weight when I need to move them and the amount of heat they kick out. Both of them together noticeably heat up the room after a couple of hours. But the picture is beautiful and I'm not even thinking about switching to LCD's - although I suppose at some point one of my monitors will die and I will have to.

I would think that you will have a hard time buying a high-quality large CRT locally - unless you happen to live in Silicon Valley. The business industry has moved to using LCD's and the high quality CRT's are becoming very hard to find. Newegg and other online retailers still carry some - although the prices seem unchanged from when CRT's had their glory years.

You might want to see if a local TV repair ship will fix it before you give up on it entirely.

That ghosting comparison website is very interesting. Nice link. I'll bookmark it for the future - just in case.

Good luck.

I guess I kind of did give up on it already. It's had problems with cracked solder joints before, and now it's got something seriously screwed up with the high voltage circuitry, to the point that something's producing a stable electrical arc. The first thing that comes to mind is a damaged flyback.

I paid $235 for this monitor, nearly 4 years ago, a decent run for computer, I suppose. Plus it's bulky, consumes a lot of power, and is just heavy as hell. I wish I could get an OLED display instead, but it seems that my CRT died in the midst of a transitional period between LCD and OLED displays. CRT is old, imperfect technology. LCD is new, imperfect technology. OLED looks like new, nearly perfect technology. It's just not quite attainable yet.

I also have no idea what a TV repair shop might charge, and it might turn out to be not worth it. I don't want to pay $50 for what winds up being a confirmation of death.

I'll also mention that when I bought the 445Pro in 2003, it was used, and the previous owner had already sent it back for servicing under warranty. So I don't know how old this monitor actually is.
Well, scratch that. I just remembered that it might have a label on the back. It was manufactured in November 2000. So it's already starting to get a bit old, it's been across the country at least twice by truck, and I've had it back and forth to college a few times, 355 miles each time. It's logged plenty of bumps on the road.

So let me rationalize away this death so I can move on.

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: HyperTension
My 19" Sony Trini died last week. I have been trying over the past 6 minths to find a suitable LCD, but have found nothing at this time that can really go toe to toe with my Trini.

Ended up buying an 22" SGI C220A for $350 from AccurateIT.com. Shipped it that day, and recieved it 2 days later. Very nice. This will hold me over for a while.

Check out their site, as I purchased a Refurb "A" with a 1 year warrenty.

You could have bought a 20" LCD for $100 less.

Probably not a really good one, or at least not good enough for avid CRT aficionados.

 

[Jeff7]

Damn, Office Max won't pricematch Newegg. But I did get to educate their manager on the fact that, according to their own store policies, they DO pricematch other online retailers.

 

[lamere]

I would check craigslist in your area, no LCD is going to match a CRT in colors or black levels.
A good CRT cant be beaten.
there was a place here in PHX that had a HUGE liquidation sale a couple years back, i was able to pick up an HP A7217A 24" widescreen for $190 and they had MANY 21" sony CRT's they were selling for $50 each, and was posted on craigslist/phoenix.
so they are out there, just keep your eyes open. I know how you feel, LCD's still havent grown on me because of all the quirks in them like i mentioned, and I just dont like the technology.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: lamere
I would check craigslist in your area, no LCD is going to match a CRT in colors or black levels.
A good CRT cant be beaten.
there was a place here in PHX that had a HUGE liquidation sale a couple years back, i was able to pick up an HP A7217A 24" widescreen for $190 and they had MANY 21" sony CRT's they were selling for $50 each, and was posted on craigslist/phoenix.
so they are out there, just keep your eyes open. I know how you feel, LCD's still havent grown on me because of all the quirks in them like i mentioned, and I just dont like the technology.

Not here, it seems.
The ads get old fast. The newest one with a monitor is dated Feb 28th, for a 17" monitor. The other newer one is a lot of 50 LCD monitors. Now while I might like the idea of wallpapering a room with LCDs, I don't have $3250.


Well now, I might get to talk to their manager again. Buy.com
Approved Retailer.
$430.
Free shipping.
I may have a winner.


Ugh, dammit, back to class. Some days they just DRAG on. I must speak with Office Depot's manager again to get some kind of price guarantee. I think I've got a pretty solid case this time. But, alas, no time now. Argh.

 

[xtknight]

Grab an LG L226WT or a couple for dual-monitor config. They're awesome.

Or get a single NEC 20WMGX2 for the same price.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Grab an LG L226WT or a couple for dual-monitor config. They're awesome.

Or get a single NEC 20WMGX2 for the same price.

Ah, our resident LCD expert, it seems.
Might you know what the input lag is like on those LG's? They look nice. They're widescreen, but I guess since they're 22", that should make up for it, should I need to use it in letterbox format.

I found it at Best Buy, but it lists the pixel response time as 5ms, as opposed to 2ms at Newegg.
Best Buy link

Newegg


Life's not fair. The local Best Buy doesn't have any.

 

[Macro2]

How much you willing to pay for a slightly used 445pro? What city you in?

 

[Jeff7]

I'm located near Erie, PA.

And I'm torn between the shiny new, slim, light LCD, the technology of which seems to be less evil than I thought. The ghosting isn't too bad, and I might be able to live with the native resolution requirement, as well as the input lag. I would like the smaller footprint, the lighter weight, smaller volume (fits in the car better for travel), and lower power consumption. Soon I'll be paying my own electric bills directly, so it'll be good to reduce my power usage, even if only by a little.

I guess I had made up my mind many months ago that when the 445 died, I'd move on to LCD.

 

[Rubycon]

Been on the LCD craze since 2000 and not looked back. I still have the NEC LCD I owned back then - a 20" that cost $5500. :Q It's painful to do anything on it today that moves - but most of my work is text or music related and SHARPNESS and FLICKER FREE are above everything else.

Text quality of LCD's is pixel perfect. CRT's look fuzzy in comparison.

Also the term ghosting actually refers to a reflection (RF) image quality but has been used all the time incorrectly with LCD's.

Ghosting occurs when a mismatch in the transmission line occurs typically at a connection between the DB15 on the VGA card or the monitor itself, or both. It can also be produced by abnormally high VSWR in cables not constructed to carry sufficient bandwidth of the video signal at highest resolution and refresh rates - i.e. 100 Hz at 1600x1200.

 

[mercanucaribe]

You CRT fanboys can have your ancient technology and hokey religions. I'll take my discreet pixels, no adjustments except color temperature and brightness, and thin goodness!

 

[Jeff7]

Oh, the 445Pro has a sharp image. And at 120Hz+, no flicker.
I'm looking at an LCD right now (college computer), and the image is as stable and sharp as on my CRT.

That LG 226WT does indeed look nice, and at 22", even if it's widescreen, damn that's still huge.
Now if only I could find one locally.

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
You CRT fanboys can have your ancient technology and hokey religions. I'll take my discreet pixels, no adjustments except color temperature and brightness, and thin goodness!

Psh, and I'm sure all you've got is a blaster by your side. Yeah, that'll do a lot.:laugh:

 

[Rubycon]

Nice thing about LCD's is they don't flicker. With a CRT (I had to use 100Hz min) boosting the refresh rate meant increasing the video bandwidth which meant reducing the sharpness. ALL CRT's will do this - the sharpness will be the best at the lowest refresh rate. Since the shadow mask is the emitter and has decently fast decay time (low persistence) the flicker is very noticeable to most souls.

Some monitors that did not seem to flicker as bad had a higher persistence. These were annoying if you had a black background with a white cursor. It looked like Halley's Comet. :laugh: