poofyhairguy
Lifer
- Nov 20, 2005
- 14,612
- 318
- 126
Because it doesn't run on an Xbox anymore.
Yes, Kodi saves everything in its own folder.
Because it doesn't run on an Xbox anymore.
Yes, Kodi saves everything in its own folder.
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
- 30,383
- 912
- 126
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 15,732
- 1,460
- 126
Maybe. I won't say "maybe not." But your average mainstreamer, goo-gah over Direct-TV's features, willing to pay for a simple rental of a DVR device, is the same mainstreamer who doesn't want to troubleshoot Windows for anything else.
Like "Windows Home Server" -- another orphaned product -- the value of having it, maintaining it, configuring it seems less than some other alternative, like "Cloud storage" or a USB external drive.
I have two family members living with me -- one, a gaming addict. They both have computers in their own rooms, leaving only one more in the family den that could benefit from a small HTPC. I've got two HDHR'-s connected to our LAN, for a total of six tuners available for those computers or any others.
So when Bro came to me asking to set up WHS so his HDTV-connected PS3 could access our movies and audio library, I solved that problem for him. But I told him I just needed to run an HDMI cable from his computer to his HDTV to give him "even more." He declined.
Truth is, I've never chosen the easy path for myself. I started fiddling with tuner-cards around the year 2000, and a "vision" of possibilities arose in my thinking. I stuck with it; I troubleshooted it; I lived with HDCP frustrations and other difficulties; I finally got my cable-TV provider to configure my HDHR'-s "properly" so I no longer had occasional difficulties with them.
So I like it better this way.
And the likely path forward? I'll probably install KODI on my second HDHR', AVR-HDTV-connected computer and see if I can deal with it while the first system continues to feed the AVR/HDTV through WMC. If I can, I'll be more amenable to installing Windows 10 on those (and even other) systems in the house.
HeXen
Diamond Member
- Dec 13, 2009
- 7,831
- 37
- 91
OP must think they don't get very many letters just like this every single day. But try something they don't get often...a letter of appreciation with no pleading. If anyone at MS read all the letters, emails, blogs, forums..etc. They would get the impression that everyone hates what they are doing but in fact is just a very small percentage. Those that don't care much about OS's or are happy enough with it, don't write letters or blab about it to everyone on the internet for months on end.
They only people they listen to are corporations, MS partners and developers. They don't care about geeky gabe in his parents basement or willy whinealot that is not happy with anything.
They only people they listen to are corporations, MS partners and developers. They don't care about geeky gabe in his parents basement or willy whinealot that is not happy with anything.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 15,732
- 1,460
- 126
Whether or not they're a "dominant firm" -- closer to a monopoly given the circumstances of competition and other factors -- they want to keep their customer base. They just may not think HTPC enthusiasts are a significant cohort of that base.
I'm more inclined to think they just made a bad decision that can be corrected.
Maybe Microsoft looks at the total picture and thinks not enough people want Windows Media Center. So they can go to this new APP design and build it in as an APP or let some third party design the APP. Maybe make it an ADD on for people that want to pay for it.
Thats what usually happens...... People dont like something OTHERS THINK IS GOOD and it gets taken away 
Blame the sheep for this,not anyone else........
Blame the sheep for this,not anyone else........
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 15,732
- 1,460
- 126
Great. But what assurances do we have of such a remedy? None. It would seem that cautious migration to another APP is the remaining option with the greatest certainty of success.
I still have to download and experiment with KODI/XBMC.
UPDATE. Downloaded, installed KODI. And -- NO! -- I'm not going to be "happy" with KODI under Windows 10. I can't get USA channel, so no "Law and Order" marathons to fantasize about being in chambers with Stephanie March, Diane Neal, Jill Hennessey and Angie Harmon -- who all sing "Here Comes the Judge!" I can't get HBO; I can't get SHO; I can't get STARZ.
What a crock this is! What has happened to Microsoft?! Why do they have to get on board with the "streaming frenzy," when EVERYBODY gets some sort of subscription TV?! And who is calling us WMC users "pirates" because we have an extensive DVR library -- which can only be played back on the system that recorded it?! Who is RUNNING things at Microsoft!?
What kind of cornpone, half-wit, addle-brained thinking is this?! Canceling WMC!?
It is all quite . . . . mentally ill . . . .
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Charlie98
Diamond Member
- Nov 6, 2011
- 6,292
- 62
- 91
Actually, the amount of negative feedback is a direct indication of how good or 'not good' something is. You are correct, hardly anyone will post a 'love it' letter, etc, but as soon as something stubs it's toe, it's hate mail time... and certainly They understand that. And... no, I don't think They only listen to corporations... like the ones that are still running XP and want it to last forevarr.
When I built my HTPC box 2 years ago and started researching configuration options, I realized the HTPC is dead, or at least on life support. When you can stab a USB or HDMI device into your TV, flop down in your chair, and mash a remote button... or when the Dish guy delivers and sets up the DVR, and all you have to do is mash a remote button to get it to work, well... that's what will sell to the masses. Having another PC, with the whole update/download/configuration/storage/virus/reliability/GUI issues, and then having to pay for programming (in some instances) on top of that... naaaaa. Not saying there isn't a place for it, I'm just saying The Masses will never buy it, and that's what MS is betting on with WMC.
I've tried XBMC/Kodi twice... and I just don't care for it, particularly vs WMC. Too bad someone doesn't come up with a stripped down version of Kodi... I don't need it to wash the dishes and walk the dog, I just want to stream movies.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 15,732
- 1,460
- 126
As a plan of argument, maybe we should look at the advocates and the detractors, their usage and experience profiles.
I know someone who lives far outside the city limits. He relies on OTA broadcast TV. He won't subscribe to satellite -- Dish or DirectTV, and he simply can't get cable -- or at the time, he couldn't get it. Some six years ago, I was trying to encourage him to run HDMI from his study where he locates his PC, to his living room. Of course, we know there are other ways of making the connection. But I couldn't raise an ounce of enthusiasm. He could care less about encrypted channels or premiums, because he doesn't get any, doesn't want to pay for them anyway.
He'd probably be the first person to open a $20 bottle of wine to celebrate the death of Windows Media Center. He doesn't care about your desires to access premium channels via PC that you could just as easily get with a set-top box. If he gave himself a budget for purchasing a DVD or BD movie to stick on his shelf, he would care less about DVR.
Here in town, on my hill, there isn't a house on any block of a half-mile radius from here that isn't connected to the local Charter TV, ISP and telephone service. At minimum, they likely get their TV and internet from the provider.
Among those, there is a very large component who wouldn't want to think about connecting their PC to a TV or Home Theater rig. They pay their subscription dues; they rent the set-tops, DVR-components. To them, it is a complication with promise of enormous misery.
Then, of course, there's the group to which we forum members belong. It is not exactly an army to be reckoned with.
So that's the "herd logic."
But WMC has been a component of Windows since XP, making four generations of the OS for which Media Center was either an integrated component, an option in a box including XP MCE, or an add-on you could get for Windows 8.
Perhaps, through all those generations, MS miscalculated the obstacles to using MC for HT purposes. Where is the desktop computer located? Do people actually want a PC like a stereo-receiver in their living room? How painful is the configuration and maintenance? Or what about Feng Shui?
You would think, though, that folks who avoided exploiting the integration of cable and OTA with the DVR capability of a PC might find the other features of MC useful.
But that's four generations of WMC history. MS has the source code, the libraries. They just disbanded the team. Yet much of the customer experience and maintenance had been automated no less than Windows UPdate. To argue that it is a prohibitive cost to them is silly.
Perhaps I forgot the business users and the corporations tasked with IT management. They wouldn't want or even show interest in an entertainment feature.
Tomorrow, I"ll ask a handful of local friends whether they're planning to sever their subscription to the Charter cable provider. I know they're all goo-gah over mobile devices -- their cell-phones equate to freedom. They are no longer tethered to a desktop. But I bet they're happy with the way the get their TV, and probably had never thought much about internet TV. They would either need devices in the living room that realize that possibility, or they'd have to connect a computer.
Meanwhile, I hear that Google will soon "open source" Sage TV. Maybe it takes a powerful player like that to conclude negotiation with the media Nazis. I couldn't rightly say for certain.
But the demographics aside, there's still plenty of justification for providing WMC with a new OS versions, or making it available for a price at minimum.
Charlie98
Diamond Member
- Nov 6, 2011
- 6,292
- 62
- 91
I'm one of those... although I live in the city, we don't have cable, relying on video ripped to disk (for me, I tend to watch the same movies over and over) and Netflix. Netflix has about run it's course, so we tried Hulu... I found it interesting they have discontinued support for it's PC app... meaning I have to access both it and Amazon from the TV interface if I don't want to use a keyboard and mouse... that's what I mean by too much configuration trouble. I'll give Netflix credit, it works well integrated into WMC and navigated with a W7 remote.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 15,732
- 1,460
- 126
Well, Bro, you're definitely "enlightened."
I just sent a PM to one of our forum brethren, who is so, so very close to getting his HDHR' configured properly.
The other hitch I see with MS's abandonment of WMC involves the remotes. We old farts tend to lose or misplace things; my 90-year-old mom lost her wireless (landline) telephone three times over three successive days! So I temporarily "lost" my green-button remote a couple years ago, panicked, went online and was able to find one at flea-bay or Amazon to order as a spare. Suppose you set up WMC and HDHR' for another family member? You suddenly need a second remote for them. Our forum brother found one for his own mom; I just can't anticipate the future availability of those devices.
Folks who only want or need OTA broadcast can get it through a tuner card like the Hauppauge PVR-2250, or they can get it through Silly-Dust's "other" HD HomeRun device that doesn't need a cable-card. For that, configuration has to be so easy, a six-year-old with computer skills could probably do it.
For some time, I'd been wondering if it's "safe" to turn loose a tech-naïve family member with WMC, green-button remote and an HTPC; someone here in another thread complained that his own family tended to "screw up" the HTPC configuration with WMC. But looking at the issue again, I can see -- once configured properly -- there's not a lot of risk there. I'd think the worst such a person would do might be shutting down or sleeping the computer by accident. UNLESS! They go into the WMC setup menu of "Tasks" and "Settings" and start pushing buttons willy-nilly.
I could also worry about Netflix and other providers excluding "HTPC" from the available options.
Also interesting -- I fought my way toward being a WMC expert, or at least familiar with it. The remote that came with my LG HDTV still seems a bit like a foreign object to me! I haven't even connected the HDTV directly to my LAN and Ethernet switch so I can use those menus offering Hulu and what-not! I'm freakin' ignorant!
Frankly I dont think they care.......... Its thier way or NO WAY and thats sad....Charlie98 said:
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 15,732
- 1,460
- 126
Sort of a paradox, really. A monopolist in the strict sense offers its customers no other option. Since they are the only source of supply, the monopolist can actually "see" the aggregate demand curve for the many buyers and predetermine a price to maximize "excess profit." "Normal profit" in markets of pure competition means something approaching zero for the various competing firms; cost-cutting strategies, more efficient production methods and other means allow this or that firm to beat the competition and get a return in addition to "survive-ability."
MS isn't a monopolist per se, but a dominant firm. It offers the world-wide preferred operating system bundled with OEM machines. You can choose something else, but computing activities, now in the widely-connected internet, requires integration.
As to what you say there, it could be somewhat true: "It's our way or the highway." Yet, a study published in American Economic Review in the '90s noted that monopolies often use their excess profits for improved customer-service in addition to R&D. And of course true monopolies operate under "barriers to entry" excluding other firms. The dominant firm only has "soft" barriers to entry such as the vast public preference for MS.
Well now that the program guide is broken for many and series recordings are broken for others (like me), it looks like MS has borked the DVR in WMC. Maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if it was intentional.
I tried disabling the 'Get Windows 10' icon in the task bar, but it just keeps coming back.
So I started thinking, if WMC is broken and/or is not moving forward, what do I really need Windows for then? I'd miss Flight Simulator (I've flown it since the monochrome days when the horizon and mountains were just lines), and I'd be out all my investment in Windows software. But there's Steam, office suites, and pretty much everything else for Linux, so what do I need MS for? Especially when they pull stuff like this on a product that is still 'current' while trying to push something on me I don't want.
I know I can dual boot but I want MS to see one less customer. Either way I have to look into getting crappy cable boxes, or pay even more for TiVO or whatever. I'm crossing my fingers for the Silicon Dust product, but it doesn't get released until Oct.
I tried disabling the 'Get Windows 10' icon in the task bar, but it just keeps coming back.
So I started thinking, if WMC is broken and/or is not moving forward, what do I really need Windows for then? I'd miss Flight Simulator (I've flown it since the monochrome days when the horizon and mountains were just lines), and I'd be out all my investment in Windows software. But there's Steam, office suites, and pretty much everything else for Linux, so what do I need MS for? Especially when they pull stuff like this on a product that is still 'current' while trying to push something on me I don't want.
I know I can dual boot but I want MS to see one less customer. Either way I have to look into getting crappy cable boxes, or pay even more for TiVO or whatever. I'm crossing my fingers for the Silicon Dust product, but it doesn't get released until Oct.
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poofyhairguy
Lifer
- Nov 20, 2005
- 14,612
- 318
- 126
I am a big fan of Mythtv. Here is a full list with features:
http://kodi.wiki/view/PVR_recording_software
IF you upgrade to Win10 on that machine, MediaPortal is a pain to set up, but works well and has a good UI and integrates well with Kodi clients. NextPVR was much simpler but it's an ugly interface on the host machine.
Might make more sense to make it as an add on and change a fee for it like an app or something like that.
MongGrel
Lifer
- Dec 3, 2013
- 38,751
- 3,068
- 121
I still like PotPlayer myself.
Just to put it out there.
Works fine with WIN X also.
http://daumpotplayer.com/
Just a thought.
It has so many settings beyond VLC it takes some getting used to at first, but I've been using it years now I guess.
I probably run my HTPC differently than many though I imagine.
Just to put it out there.
Works fine with WIN X also.
http://daumpotplayer.com/
Just a thought.
It has so many settings beyond VLC it takes some getting used to at first, but I've been using it years now I guess.
I probably run my HTPC differently than many though I imagine.
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Apparently someone has gotten wmc to work with w10 albeit with limited functionality.
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/th...ows-10-final-amp-possible-alternatives/page28
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/th...ows-10-final-amp-possible-alternatives/page28
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