My Inner Struggle with Desktop Operating Systems

[slugg]

My Inner Struggle with Desktop Operating Systems:

I've been using Microsoft OS's my whole life. At the age of 3, I didn't know how to speak English; Spanish was my first language. So, lucky for me, I had access to an old IBM clone (back when they called them that) with some version of DOS on it. That was my first computer; I learned the DOS commands, played Frogger, parked the hard disk heads (LOL!) and shut it off.

I continued with a Windows 3.1 based computer. Then Windows 95. Then 98. Then Millenium Edition. I held off for a while and got Windows XP Pro as soon as it was available.

I stuck with Windows XP for pretty much as long as it was viable. Toward the end there, I started to really get tired of the operating system. It was just old, boring, and outdated. I started fooling around with various Linux distros, being spoiled by Compiz and Beryl at the time with their flashy 3D effects on my desktop. Finally, the desktop was cool again.

Microsoft then came out with the travesty that was Windows Vista. During that time, I was sick and tired of having an archaic operating system (XP) or one that would constantly break (Linux), but Vista was just a massive piece of garbage. So, like many others, I switched to Mac.

I switched to Mac OS X when Leopard was more or less new. These were the days when Spotlight and Spaces were just introduced. These were very appealing to me, since I loved Beagle from Linux (equivalent to Spotlight) and virtual desktops (Spaces). It really made for an amazing workflow, plus like anything Apple makes, it was extremely polished beyond anything else. The next version of Mac OS X, Snow Leopard, was fantastic as well. It was pretty much the same feature set, just more optimized and 64 bit ready.

But then Mac OS X Lion came out and Apple decided to strip me of half of the reason why I loved Mac so much: Spaces! I've argued this so many times and some people just don't get it, but Mission Control (Spaces's replacement) is NOT equivalent! It does NOT offer the same workflow and feature set! It's designed almost entirely for eye-candy, not productivity. On top of a few other things, it annoyed me enough to seek an alternative OS.

By this time, I had somewhat "discovered" Windows 7. It had been out for a while, but I never bothered to look much into it because I was content with Mac. But since both operating systems now had useless virtual desktop support and both had an index-searchable file system with a smart interface (Spaces, Start menu search), the two OS's were on a level playing field for me. But Windows 7 is by far snappier, better supported, and better suited to multitasking than Mac OS X Lion. I was sold; it's a great operating system and I continue to use it to this day.

Overall, I've been quite impressed with Microsoft's offerings. Visual Studio is simply amazing; nothing comes close to it. Visual Studio makes Apple's Xcode look like a paper napkin and a pencil. Microsoft Office, even though it has a Mac counterpart, is so much more complete in Windows and is easier to use (Visio, anyone?). Office 365 is stunning, and so is the new Outlook.com preview. The Xbox 360 is great. I mean pretty much everything in Microsoft's recent lineup is top notch!

Except Windows 8.

What the... Huh? How could the same people that made SQL Server 2012, Windows Server 2008 R2, Office, Flight Simulator, Windows 7, the Kinect, Exchange, and Sync, all of which are widely regarded as some of (if not, the) best in the business, produce such the massive turd that is Windows 8?

Now I don't know what to do with myself. It's only a matter of time before Windows 7 goes the way of Windows XP. Mac is getting more and more annoying with each iteration of its operating system, and it seems like Steve Ballmer wants to run Microsoft into the ground.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but is 2013 the year of the Linux desktop?

 

[theevilsharpie]

I expect Windows 8 to receive the same reception Windows Vista did:

• It will have a very small and very loud contingent of fans
• most consumers will put up with it since that's what comes with their computers
• a minority of consumers will switch to a Mac or give up their PC for an iPad
• it will be completely ignored by businesses

Upon the release of Windows 9, Microsoft will either:

• restore the traditional desktop and either make Metro (or whatever it's called) an optional feature or split it off into separate product, or
• streamline the interface so there's less need to switch between Metro and the classic interface, and make such switches less annoying, or
• continue going full force with Metro with the knowledge that application developers have ported the most popular applications to Metro.

Windows 9 will receive a generally positive reception, and will replace Windows 7 as the standard Windows desktop.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but is 2013 the year of the Linux desktop?

No.

 

[ninaholic37]

Overall, I've been quite impressed with Microsoft's offerings. Visual Studio is simply amazing; nothing comes close to it. Visual Studio makes Apple's Xcode look like a paper napkin and a pencil. Microsoft Office, even though it has a Mac counterpart, is so much more complete in Windows and is easier to use (Visio, anyone?). Office 365 is stunning, and so is the new Outlook.com preview. The Xbox 360 is great. I mean pretty much everything in Microsoft's recent lineup is top notch!

I'm in a different boat here. Visual Studios seems a lot more laggy and messy than Code::Blocks and Dev C++ for me (for C++ coding). I try to avoid using VS whenever possible. Office seems much slower and way more of a resource / memory / space hog than other alternatives for me, and I don't like Word or the ribbon idea, and never really liked the interface of Visio either. I try to avoid the "MS Office package" when possible (don't even have it installed).

 

[Jaskalas]

You switched from XP to Mac? Guess I don't really know the appeal, but I did pounce on Win7 as soon as it was released. So XP was leaving something to be desired.

I expect to stick with Win7 until Win9, but who knows if they'll head in a pleasing direction after Win8. I think a lot of folks will stick with Win7 and hold out for years. So I don't think 2013 is the year of Linux... even though I'll personally start looking into it more.

Win9, not Win8, will decide Microsoft's future. Will anyone be buying new Desktops 3 years from now? I'm afraid the truth is not what people expect. The future may indeed be tablets, so Win9 may just drop the desktop entirely (or leave it as a legacy app). Either way, I'm expecting Metro to be the future of Microsoft.

 

[lxskllr]

Ubuntu made too many changes I wasn't happy with, so I switched to Debian. Everything now works the way I want it to. My core system works the way it always has. It's nice not being tied to any single desktop, or reliant on one authority to fix problems.

 

[Meghan54]

I'm in a different boat here. Visual Studios seems a lot more laggy and messy than Code::Blocks and Dev C++ for me (for C++ coding). I try to avoid using VS whenever possible. Office seems much slower and way more of a resource / memory / space hog than other alternatives for me, and I don't like Word or the ribbon idea, and never really liked the interface of Visio either. I try to avoid the "MS Office package" when possible (don't even have it installed).

You're right.....I have Office 2010 Professinal Plus and it's specific folder is 1.05GB in size, not to mention the ancillary parts it installs elsewhere. Hate losing that 1GB of space.

And you're also right about the "MS Office package". Horribly overrated, despite the fact that it is the standard throughout the business and academic worlds. Like you, I'd much rather save a few MB of memory use than have complete compatibility with every one else.

 

[Meghan54]

It's nice not being tied to any single desktop, or reliant on one authority to fix problems.

You're absolutely correct! Rather than have one source of fixing problems in an operating system, like the ones who wrote the thing, like you, I'd much rather have numerous semi-pros fixing "problems" with varying levels of expertise. I'd much rather put up with having to post on a forum and hope my problem gets fixed.....sometime in the future.....or maybe being completely ignored and never getting a problem even acknowledged.

 

[lxskllr]

You're absolutely correct! Rather than have one source of fixing problems in an operating system, like the ones who wrote the thing, like you, I'd much rather have numerous semi-pros fixing "problems" with varying levels of expertise. I'd much rather put up with having to post on a forum and hope my problem gets fixed.....sometime in the future.....or maybe being completely ignored and never getting a problem even acknowledged.

Write to MS, and ask them to fix bugs, and see how far you get. If you aren't a company with millions of dollars sitting in a bank account, they aren't interested in your problems. OTOH, I can fix my problems myself, or if other people have the same problem, they can fix it for me.

 

[JackMDS]

I have a MacBook and a Mac Pro desktop and few Win 7 PCs.

I yet have to find one thing that the Mac does better than Win 7.

The Mac way of working might be an advantage for people who want very simple computer for doing simple things (surfing emailing and social blabbering) and categorically do not want to know any thing past the plastic barrier of the box.

So if people say that they switch to Mac rather than being a little flexible and adjust to Win 8, or just stay with Win 7, they are either overly busy with a "Drama King" show or just lost the interest in being computer enthusiasts and it is time for rock bottom simple computer.

Businesses' Model does not allow flexible changes in deploying, adjusting, and changing the Hardware/OS every two or three years.

No matter what people say Vista is much better than XP. it just became a matter of the current societal trend that instead of telling the truth, i.e., saying: "We do not have the Money, Time, and energy to switch to Vista you kill the messenger".

Win 8 might Not be better than Win 7 per-se but it the first step to what seems to be future of future of computing as chosen by the Masses (Tablet touch computing).

BTW - There is nothing wrong with choosing simple. One can not be Entusiasts about everything in live. People who choose simple in computing, might be very successful Enthusiasts about other topics of interest.

 

[Maximilian]

Now I don't know what to do with myself. It's only a matter of time before Windows 7 goes the way of Windows XP. Mac is getting more and more annoying with each iteration of its operating system, and it seems like Steve Ballmer wants to run Microsoft into the ground.

Its gonna be a loooong time before windows 7 goes the way of XP. Windows vista/7/8 are basically similar under the hood so you can stick with 7 for some time to come.

 

[Fardringle]

I certainly won't switch to a Mac OR to Linux any time soon. Neither one of them will do the vast majority of the things that I want to do with my computers. However, I also will not switch to Windows 8 ever unless they give us a way to completely get rid of Metro and a way to put back the Start Menu/Task Bar exactly the way it works in previous versions.

 

[Jaskalas]

I certainly won't switch to a Mac OR to Linux any time soon. Neither one of them will do the vast majority of the things that I want to do with my computers. However, I also will not switch to Windows 8 ever unless they give us a way to completely get rid of Metro and a way to put back the Start Menu/Task Bar exactly the way it works in previous versions.

Will you consider Mac / Linux if Windows 9 is even more Metro and less Desktop?

 

[Zaap]

It's hilarious to me that anyone could bag on OSX being 'simple'... if they're going to be using Win8/Metro. Microsoft just redefined "OS for simpletons" basically. OSX is like a computer engineer's OS compared to how dumbed down Metro is. The whole message of Metro is: "You must be too damned stupid to know how to click on a simple 32x32 icon, so we're going to blow it up to a grid of 200x200 Playskool-colored tiles that take up your entire screen, because you're also too stupid to use a logical start menu. And because we have an iPad wanna-be hoop-dream that's more important than the needs of non-simpletons."

I don't really see any big dilemma: OSX is actually better than ever. I don't have any big issue with Spaces/Mission Control (never did/don't rely heavily on either) so that's a non-issue to me. All of Apple's other added features are very logical. If you don't need Launchpad- don't use it. Most people probably don't and Apple wasn't stupid enough to try and for some dumbass reason force it as the main interface vs. one with decades of refinement. What sort of idiotic company with a boneheaded CEO does that? Oh wait...

The new Notifications sidebar is brilliant- 100% unobtrusive until you actually need it, then you quickly realize it's one of the biggest nobrainers in recent computing history. A completely logical progression.

And really, besides those major things, not a whole lot else has changed- just a lot of little tweaks that make things better.

Linux- ah yes, the age old 'threat' of running away from the commercial OS's to Linux. Admittedly, that's much less of a hollow threat than it used to be as Linux has improved for the noob tremendously. But in my opinion, it's still a mixed bag. I look at it as I've done my time with Linux, and now by my own authority, I've commuted my sentence. Done with it.

One by one, so many major promises of Linux were shattered for me. "Open source is so awesome!" My reality: a lot of just plain Kruddy and Gcrappy stuff mixed in with the good stuff, and rarely as good as commercial software. "You can live without Photoshop and Final Cut! Gimp and GnuTheFkevenKnows are just as good!" Sorry, no they aren't.

"It never breaks!" Only when it's not busy breaking. I swear- I had installs of Linux that I didn't even boot into for weeks- booted into them, something was broken since the last time! How does it even happen?

"You can get all the help you need from the community!" Sure. Sometimes. Other times it's "Hey, how do I do this?" Forum of complete linux snobs: "What? You don't know how to grep/tarball/bash/mtpoint/chk/shell? Get lost NOOOB!!!!!"

Now of course I bag on Linux because I've used it and run the gauntlet of great to horrendous, but I still encourage people I know and meet to try and and see if its right for them. Wasn't for me, probably won't be for a lot of others, but it is probably perfect for some. Personally, I wish it did live up to the hype for me, there's room for a third choice that's as viable for everyone as OSX or Windows 7.

 

[lopri]

@JackMDS: You are not being fair. Windows 8 would have received overwhelmingly positive reviews, had it not been for METRO. A simple toggle option would have squashed all these bitch and moans, and many would be eager to upgrade, despite it being mere incremental improvement over Windows 7.

If MS was so confident on its product's competence (as you seem so eager to believe), then it would have left the option for the consumers. But alas, for some reason MS decided not to. You are an intelligent person and you very well know why.

When a market is under [quasi-]monopoly, it's ultimately the consumers that pay the price for the lack of alternatives. You can't simply accuse them of being "drama queens."

 

[xSauronx]

@JackMDS: You are not being fair. Windows 8 would have received overwhelmingly positive reviews, had it not been for METRO. A simple toggle option would have squashed all these bitch and moans, and many would be eager to upgrade, despite it being mere incremental improvement over Windows 7.

well I dont think that's all its going to take. Some options...well multiple options cannot be toggled or changed in the metro UI, they revert to the traditional interface. Looks like something else microsoft half-assed, which is going to be annoying. Doubt I will switch to 8 any time soon, as I am very happy with 7 and dont see myself getting a windows tablet in the near future.

 

[JackMDS]

well I dont think that's all its going to take. Some options...well multiple options cannot be toggled or changed in the metro UI, they revert to the traditional interface. Looks like something else microsoft half-assed, which is going to be annoying. Doubt I will switch to 8 any time soon, as I am very happy with 7 and don’t see myself getting a windows tablet in the near future.

In my mind the main reason for the downfall that is experienced in our beloved country (USA) is the Bizarre way of thinking adopted by our society.

In general, it called Dogmatic thinking.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Dogmatism
http://grisham.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/20/10197041-dogmatic-thinking-leads-down-the-road-to-ruin

I.e., people start with a Dogma, and then adopt their cognitive processes and communication to totally Match their Dogma. Reality is of No consequences.

E.g., many of the actions that lead to the current economical situation are still Triumphed by the people who brought this disaster upon us. Reality is of No consequences.

Or, if One is into Apple than everything else is No good, and so on and so on. Reality is of No consequences.

In my family,business, and research environment, I have Windows, Apple, Android. On Desktops Laptops, Tablets, and Dedicated computing devices for research.

There is No general Good or Bad, there is One thing Good for some tasks and other better for another tasks.

I will upgrade some of my computers to Win 8; others are probably OK with Win 7 for the time being.

What I can Not stand is the senseless Whining and Caring On. Between us, for most people Win 8 means one more mouse click to get to the Desktop.

Otherwise, I am sure that most of the general public that use computers for mundane social computing will actually enjoy Metro even on Desktops and Laptops once they will overcome the dreadful fear of something New.

 

[Zaap]

Wow, I find it really strange when people use bizarre dogmatic thinking to link completely unrelated concepts, while thinking they're making some grand point about... bizarre dogmatic thinking.

"Everything is going to hell in a handbasket, my car got a flat tire, my cat died, and now people don't like a consumer operating system!!??!?! It's all the same!"

Weird.

 

[JackMDS]

Yeah, sadly it also necessary to know the difference between Abstract to Concrete!

To say Apples and Oranges are both Round, or that we eat them both, is Concrete.

To say they are both Fruits is Abstract thinking, it is considered higher level of intellectual Functioning.

 

[Cerb]

What the... Huh? How could the same people that made SQL Server 2012, Windows Server 2008 R2, Office, Flight Simulator, Windows 7, the Kinect, Exchange, and Sync, all of which are widely regarded as some of (if not, the) best in the business, produce such the massive turd that is Windows 8?

Different people, and they weren't targeting business users.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but is 2013 the year of the Linux desktop?

Don't think so. Linux is still too fractured, and both CUPS and ALSA, even with Pulse, always end up frustrating and pissing off normal users that want more than a cheaper Mac. IMO, we won't have the Linux desktop take off until the head honchos decide to finally get a decent sound system, make printing work as well as Windows (to be fair, Apple isn't as good as MS about this, either), make X stable, or get rid of it (application Y inside X should not go down if application Z crashes), and become willing to freeze APIs (new APIs should be implemented with old API wrappers, so old software keeps working). In other words, not anytime soon. Netflix would be nice, too.

 

[theevilsharpie]

MO, we won't have the Linux desktop take off until the head honchos decide to finally get a decent sound system, make printing work as well as Windows (to be fair, Apple isn't as good as MS about this, either), make X stable, or get rid of it (application XY inside X should not go down if application Z crashes), and become willing to freeze APIs (new APIs should be implemented with old API wrappers, so old software keeps working). In other words, not anytime soon.

The "head honchos" you reference would be distro maintainers, who do just that.

 

[Cerb]

The "head honchos" you reference would be distro maintainers, who do just that.

No, they don't. They really can't. The greater problems are upstream from them, if they want software that keeps [often marginally] working. Embedded Linux is fine doing hacks, workarounds, using unusual graphics systems (Android, FI), etc., and servers don't need too much. I often get annoyed at stupid choices of Ubuntu maintainers (Erlang having no GUI is the latest face-palm I came across), but most distros have people doing as good a job as they can.

On the desktop, Wayland puts along, but still is a far future thing; WINE blames Pulse, Pulse blames WINE, VLC/Mplayer/Phonon/Gstreamer blames Pulse and/or ALSA, Pulse eats CPU on certain machines, but not on others, with the same configuration, and ALSA goes la-la-la with its fingers in its ears, when, ultimately, it was a bad idea from the start. OSS4 offered some hope, but seems to have petered out. Applications running in X can crash the whole X session. All the while, CUPS still doesn't even return an error when a print job can be sent, but fails.

Don't get me wrong, I'm only even going to have Windows as a secondary OS on my notebook so I watch Netflix. Outside of gaming and DRM-hobbled content consumption, I generally prefer a good distro to Windows. But, Linux breaks in small and large ways all the time, and still uses fundamentally broken systems. They might not be the most elegant, but MS and Apple have gone and reworked parts of the OS that needed it (except CUPS), providing a more compatible and reliable system to users that need it to work now, keep on working, and get enough info from non-working stuff for their support person to fix it...and all the while, MS at least, maintains excellent backwards-compatibility in the process.

 

[MrColin]

I only tried windows8 breifly in a VM and metro had such a "me too" portable device wannabe feeling. I like the idea of being able to code desktop apps in html5+js but I'd be willing to bet that MS throws in a nightmarish licensing mechanism at release time. (ie app store revenue garnishment scheme). I'm starting to doubt if MS is going to be able to continue their success without Bill.

 

[lopri]

What I can Not stand is the senseless Whining and Caring On. Between us, for most people Win 8 means one more mouse click to get to the Desktop.

What I cannot stand is the blind appeasement to coporation's interest, of which the nefarious motive is obvious.

It is an utterly unassailable position that MS could have avoided the "senseless whining and caring on" you seem to loathe by simply providing an option to bypass Metro. Those who like Metro will quickly learn to use it, those who don't will have an option to forgo it. And if Metro is such a wonderful thing (or a minuscal hassle) as you seem to believe, there MS should have nothing to worry about by giving consumers options to choose. It is beyond me why you are defending the obvious, if you are a consumer.

Did MS ever taken a misstep in the past, in your opinion?

 

[cl-scott]

While I may disagree on some of the particulars in the OP's post, it does seem like Microsoft and Apple are intent on "tabletizing" their desktop operating systems.

Mac OS X is taking on more and more aspects of iOS, and with it the screws are being turned ever more tightly on application distribution on Mac OS X, with Apple's completely opaque rules on what apps are and are not accepted. Then in the Northwest, Microsoft can't even be bothered to add a simple option to let people on desktops to choose whether they want to boot to the "traditional" Windows desktop or not-Metro. I know if there were such an option, I'd have already pre-ordered Windows 8 instead of debating whether it's worth even $40 to me still. Even considering I tend to leave my computer on 24/7, so the idea of having to click one button to get out of not-Metro would be minimal. I'm generally opposed to the idea that I have no real method of saying that I do not want to use not-Metro.

Linux is honestly becoming the only place where there's any kind of real product differentiation. Where you can find software that takes advantage of the unique qualities of a desktop, not just treating it as an oversized/powered tablet. The whole Linux on the desktop, is looking like it will come about because Microsoft and Apple have abdicated the market and Linux is the only option left.

 

[JackMDS]

What I cannot stand is the blind appeasement to coporation's interest, of which the nefarious motive is obvious.

It is an utterly unassailable position that MS could have avoided the "senseless whining and caring on" you seem to loathe by simply providing an option to bypass Metro. Those who like Metro will quickly learn to use it, those who don't will have an option to forgo it. And if Metro is such a wonderful thing (or a minuscal hassle) as you seem to believe, there MS should have nothing to worry about by giving consumers options to choose. It is beyond me why you are defending the obvious, if you are a consumer.

Did MS ever taken a misstep in the past, in your opinion?

This is an Enthusiasts forum, my mind set is accordingly.

People who are in charge of corporate IT do not do thier business with Microsoft, or any other Business for this matter by ""Whining and carrying on"" using public forum.

They use their time to solve their specific issues in a rational way.