My impressions of Marks P-D 820

[DAPUNISHER]

Just MO, but if you are doing enough to need 2 physical cores in the first place, then ponying up for the X2 is a wise purchase.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
I've put together a PD 820 (for someone who wanted a $600 dual core system) and I thought it was plenty fast (games, multitasking, encoding) and regardless of what others have said it did not throttle once during its 24 hour Prime 95 session.

However, the heat is the main thing that bothered me. My A64 idles 28-30C and loads 38-40C and I just can't get used to the PD that idles 49-50C and loads 59-64C.

According to Anandtech's Intel road maps hopefully we'll see Conroe 2nd half of next year! Untill then AMD is the only path I'll take!

If you read our posts, the 820d did NOT show up as throttleing on any software except S&M, and the performance was obvious. Throttlewatch and task manager and cpuz did NOT show it throttling, but it was ! Also, if you have to use even the stock XP90 to run stock reliably, then you are talking $280 vs $350. Makes a difference ! and then there is still the heat and power comsumption $$$$....

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
and then there is still the heat and power comsumption $$$$....

This is a point many discount, but over 1 yrs time, it can be a substantial difference for 24/7 DC project folks.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Markfw900
and then there is still the heat and power comsumption $$$$....

This is a point many discount, but over 1 yrs time, it can be a substantial difference for 24/7 DC project folks.

Thanks for helping me point that out. Since I started F@H, my electric bill has gone fron $40 average to $140 average. I have 7-10 cores running at any one time 24/7, so that is about $12 per core. All are Athlon64/Opterons, most running about 2.2 average (except the 2 X2's at 2.55). I just added the 820D to the fleet, so the new power consumption could change drasticly !

 

[AkumaX]

I ran S&M 1.73, for a little over an hour, and these were the 'results' of the stressing:

SpeedFan - Vcore
SpeedFan - CPU Temp (C)
SpeedFan - +12v Line
I didn't include the +5v line because it was consistent between 5.0 and 5.03
ThrottleWatch - CPU Mhz
RMClock - CPU Mhz
RMClock - CPU Load

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: AkumaX
I ran S&M 1.73, for a little over an hour, and these were the 'results' of the stressing:

SpeedFan - Vcore
SpeedFan - CPU Temp (C)
SpeedFan - +12v Line
I didn't include the +5v line because it was consistent between 5.0 and 5.03
ThrottleWatch - CPU Mhz
RMClock - CPU Mhz
RMClock - CPU Load

:Q Wow...

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: AkumaX
I ran S&M 1.73, for a little over an hour, and these were the 'results' of the stressing:

SpeedFan - Vcore
SpeedFan - CPU Temp (C)
SpeedFan - +12v Line
I didn't include the +5v line because it was consistent between 5.0 and 5.03
ThrottleWatch - CPU Mhz
RMClock - CPU Mhz
RMClock - CPU Load

:Q Wow...

yeap... quite interesting, eh? stock vcore is supposed to be 1.25v, but either my motherboard or PSU seems to be performing under par...

 

[fatty4ksu]

Originally posted by: Duvie
First off I have to say now that I have seen it first hand I am not impressed at all....I had access to both systems simultaneously with a switch of the KVM monitor switch. IMO the AMD X2 system was noticeably faster with multiple programs (and/or any program that held 100% load) running...The Intel chip felt lethargic. So I decided to investigate and what I found was a bit surprising...

Let me also state right off hand, that the X2 system is at the disadvantage when it comes to cooling...It has only 1 case fan (not including the PSU) and a smaller XP90 (aluminum) with smaller 92mm fan. At full load running S&M 1.73 the heatsink was at 54c load on average an almost unnoticeable to the notch for heat. It also has a disadvantage in that it is running on a 380watt antec while the Intel system uses a Fortron 450 watter....

On the other hand the INtel system has 2 case fans, one frekkin behemoth of a heatsink (typhoon) and a massive 120mm fan....The heat around it as soon as you stuck your hand near it was noticeably verm warm. The heatpipes actually were burning hot.....


Initially Mark had the beast at 3.5ghz, w/ 1.45v...At that speed it had ran apps fine for 2 days including dual instances of F&H....As soon as I started messing with it I loaded it with 2 instance of FFT Prime95 and it froze within 5 minutes though heat only reached like 58-60c. Temp shutoff is 70c and we verified that to work later.....

The board after reboot clears out all settings so I set it to same vcore to lower speed of 245fsb for 3430mhz....It subsequently ran 2 instances of prime for 37minutes so power definitely seemed like an issue at 3.5ghz. Especially since I saw a max temp of 64c doing it and it did not freeze....

Now for the interesting part....

I decided to run S&M 1.73...It is the program that spanks prime95's arse when it comes to stress of heat and power....especially when you focus on the cpu (FPU) portion of the test. Now S&M is dual core setup so 1 instances is all it takes to load both cores. It also has tabs for each core....It was during running this that I noticed that...


THE P-D was THROTTLING!!!!!

At 55c the cpu being reported by the S&M for core1 starting dropping from 3430mhz.....By the time we hit 60c the speed was listed about 100mhz lower then core 0 and set speed.....When we hit 64c the speed was over 400 mhz and actually dipped below 3ghz. To verify this was temp related we removed the side of the case and subsequently the temps fell to around 56c and the cpu mhzz of core 1 climbed back to within 20mhz of core 0....Place the side back on and the temps rise and cpu1 drops again back to 400+ mhz lower.....

We at the same time ran this on the X2 3800+ oc'd to 2.55ghz at 1.475v and noiticed max temp of 56c and no differnece greater then 1-3mhz of reported speeds between core 0 and core 1....It is clearly just a P-D thing here...

Ultimately we decided to see how high it would go. Using the long test, 100% load and using the cpu (fpu) test about 29 minutes into the test we hit 69c and the chip had throttled a whopping 800mhz....that is right!!! we then watched slowly as it creep to 69.2, 69.3, 69.4, etc....Finally the system rebooted but this time did not clear the settings...it was strictly the thermal safety setting in the bios that shut it down....

I then remember the stuff Stevty was talking about, the higher the vcore the lower the throttle point. I decided to prove that theory....and I did....Setting the cpu volts to 1.4v in the bios and dropping the cpu speed now to 240 for 3360mhz I then restarted S&M and the same cpu (fpu) test....Once it rose to 55c (rather quickly too) I checked the cores and no throttling...checked at 57c....checked at 59c and was starting to get iffy, and then finally at 60c the cpu speed of core 1 dropped more then 10mhz below the other....The temps slowly rised over time until it reach 64c and it was about 70mhz lower clock speed then core 0. Bottom line was the throttle temp point defintiely had changed.


At 64-65c and removing the side of case the heatpipes we so damn hot holding your figure there too long was uncomfortable....

THIS THING IS A BEAST...


My best guesses is that 3.5ghz will not be stable. 1 cause it needs more power and 2 unless mark wants to run with case side off he will likley throttle quicker then current 55c. Even with case side off I was able to get it to throttle with 2 instance of prime95 running as it hit 58c....

3.43ghz likely can work with case side off and folding at home but it may just crosss into slight throttling evry now and then when the room gets a bit warmer....room temp was 76f but he did have a window open and it is like 48-50f at the time outside.

Most likely to insure no throttling 1.4v might be the max vcore to use and a speed of about 3360mhz....If you can keep vcore low you can OC these chips but temps will be likely still high....


The sad thing is, that HSF is the best damn air cooling you can buy and it doesn't muster it at these rather conservative levels....IMHO...




PS.

Guys run S&M and if anything just launch the app and use its monitoring of temps and core speeds...you dont have to run the app but can use it to do those 2 things and is far more effective then cpu_z was...


EDIT 1:

let me clarify 1.45v was what was set in the bios...It actually was undervolted a bit from that but the surprising thing may be more related to this mobo but the droop under load was tremendous. I have heard reportes from other boards for these chips similar stories of undervolting a drooping...In this case it didn't affect ocing and did't seem to help the temps either...

Yep, there is an unbiased review.

:laugh:

 

[Duvie]

Yeah thanks it was!!!! I would have gave it the benefit of the doubt but it is hard to look past the obvious.....

 

[anandtechrocks]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
I've put together a PD 820 (for someone who wanted a $600 dual core system) and I thought it was plenty fast (games, multitasking, encoding) and regardless of what others have said it did not throttle once during its 24 hour Prime 95 session.

However, the heat is the main thing that bothered me. My A64 idles 28-30C and loads 38-40C and I just can't get used to the PD that idles 49-50C and loads 59-64C.

According to Anandtech's Intel road maps hopefully we'll see Conroe 2nd half of next year! Untill then AMD is the only path I'll take!

If you read our posts, the 820d did NOT show up as throttleing on any software except S&M, and the performance was obvious. Throttlewatch and task manager and cpuz did NOT show it throttling, but it was ! Also, if you have to use even the stock XP90 to run stock reliably, then you are talking $280 vs $350. Makes a difference ! and then there is still the heat and power comsumption $$$$....

That's interesting. I was using Throttlewatch to see if the 820 was throttleing. Next time I use that system I'll definately run S&M.

Also, when you ran S&M which tests did you run? Did you just do CPU (FPU)?

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu

Originally posted by: Duvie
First off I have to say now that I have seen it first hand I am not impressed at all....I had access to both systems simultaneously with a switch of the KVM monitor switch. IMO the AMD X2 system was noticeably faster with multiple programs (and/or any program that held 100% load) running...The Intel chip felt lethargic. So I decided to investigate and what I found was a bit surprising...

Let me also state right off hand, that the X2 system is at the disadvantage when it comes to cooling...It has only 1 case fan (not including the PSU) and a smaller XP90 (aluminum) with smaller 92mm fan. At full load running S&M 1.73 the heatsink was at 54c load on average an almost unnoticeable to the notch for heat. It also has a disadvantage in that it is running on a 380watt antec while the Intel system uses a Fortron 450 watter....

On the other hand the INtel system has 2 case fans, one frekkin behemoth of a heatsink (typhoon) and a massive 120mm fan....The heat around it as soon as you stuck your hand near it was noticeably verm warm. The heatpipes actually were burning hot.....


Initially Mark had the beast at 3.5ghz, w/ 1.45v...At that speed it had ran apps fine for 2 days including dual instances of F&H....As soon as I started messing with it I loaded it with 2 instance of FFT Prime95 and it froze within 5 minutes though heat only reached like 58-60c. Temp shutoff is 70c and we verified that to work later.....

The board after reboot clears out all settings so I set it to same vcore to lower speed of 245fsb for 3430mhz....It subsequently ran 2 instances of prime for 37minutes so power definitely seemed like an issue at 3.5ghz. Especially since I saw a max temp of 64c doing it and it did not freeze....

Now for the interesting part....

I decided to run S&M 1.73...It is the program that spanks prime95's arse when it comes to stress of heat and power....especially when you focus on the cpu (FPU) portion of the test. Now S&M is dual core setup so 1 instances is all it takes to load both cores. It also has tabs for each core....It was during running this that I noticed that...


THE P-D was THROTTLING!!!!!

At 55c the cpu being reported by the S&M for core1 starting dropping from 3430mhz.....By the time we hit 60c the speed was listed about 100mhz lower then core 0 and set speed.....When we hit 64c the speed was over 400 mhz and actually dipped below 3ghz. To verify this was temp related we removed the side of the case and subsequently the temps fell to around 56c and the cpu mhzz of core 1 climbed back to within 20mhz of core 0....Place the side back on and the temps rise and cpu1 drops again back to 400+ mhz lower.....

We at the same time ran this on the X2 3800+ oc'd to 2.55ghz at 1.475v and noiticed max temp of 56c and no differnece greater then 1-3mhz of reported speeds between core 0 and core 1....It is clearly just a P-D thing here...

Ultimately we decided to see how high it would go. Using the long test, 100% load and using the cpu (fpu) test about 29 minutes into the test we hit 69c and the chip had throttled a whopping 800mhz....that is right!!! we then watched slowly as it creep to 69.2, 69.3, 69.4, etc....Finally the system rebooted but this time did not clear the settings...it was strictly the thermal safety setting in the bios that shut it down....

I then remember the stuff Stevty was talking about, the higher the vcore the lower the throttle point. I decided to prove that theory....and I did....Setting the cpu volts to 1.4v in the bios and dropping the cpu speed now to 240 for 3360mhz I then restarted S&M and the same cpu (fpu) test....Once it rose to 55c (rather quickly too) I checked the cores and no throttling...checked at 57c....checked at 59c and was starting to get iffy, and then finally at 60c the cpu speed of core 1 dropped more then 10mhz below the other....The temps slowly rised over time until it reach 64c and it was about 70mhz lower clock speed then core 0. Bottom line was the throttle temp point defintiely had changed.


At 64-65c and removing the side of case the heatpipes we so damn hot holding your figure there too long was uncomfortable....

THIS THING IS A BEAST...


My best guesses is that 3.5ghz will not be stable. 1 cause it needs more power and 2 unless mark wants to run with case side off he will likley throttle quicker then current 55c. Even with case side off I was able to get it to throttle with 2 instance of prime95 running as it hit 58c....

3.43ghz likely can work with case side off and folding at home but it may just crosss into slight throttling evry now and then when the room gets a bit warmer....room temp was 76f but he did have a window open and it is like 48-50f at the time outside.

Most likely to insure no throttling 1.4v might be the max vcore to use and a speed of about 3360mhz....If you can keep vcore low you can OC these chips but temps will be likely still high....


The sad thing is, that HSF is the best damn air cooling you can buy and it doesn't muster it at these rather conservative levels....IMHO...




PS.

Guys run S&M and if anything just launch the app and use its monitoring of temps and core speeds...you dont have to run the app but can use it to do those 2 things and is far more effective then cpu_z was...


EDIT 1:

let me clarify 1.45v was what was set in the bios...It actually was undervolted a bit from that but the surprising thing may be more related to this mobo but the droop under load was tremendous. I have heard reportes from other boards for these chips similar stories of undervolting a drooping...In this case it didn't affect ocing and did't seem to help the temps either...

Yep, there is an unbiased review.

:laugh:

Need I remind you Fatty that this review is inline with the Anandtech review you pointed out earlier? Of course you have very selective memory and perception. That whole living under a bridge thing tends to do that .

Remember everyone that Fatty stated his Willamette 1.8 PIV encoded faster than a AMD64. Yes, that is correct he actually stated this. I will continue to post this everytime I see Fatty make a troll like comment in a thread to ensure that people really understand where he is coming from.

 

[carlosd]

Hey!, fatty, what is a unbiased review?, Saying that the 820 is a better CPU when it's actually a piece of crap? That would be soooo.. unbiased :disgust:

P.D:Also I remember that you stated that a 1.8 P4 encodes faster than an AMD64. That's laughable, aren't you ashamed for being such a troll.:laugh:

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
Remember everyone that Fatty stated his Willamette 1.8 PIV encoded faster than a AMD64. Yes, that is correct he actually stated this. I will continue to post this everytime I see Fatty make a troll like comment in a thread to ensure that people really understand where he is coming from.

Hey you should put it in your sign. It will be a long trolling coming from fatty.

 

[redhatlinux]

Just one man's opinion. I'll take the bet. All those Pd's in Dells and HP's will run just fine. Sure they may throttle on occasion, but the user will never know. Seldom does a 'normal user' hit the CPU so hard. I'm sure that Intel couldn't care less that their CPU's don't over clock so well. They sell 'em by the truck load anyways.

 

[carlosd]

I will know, and will care about that, that's why Hell is for the average user.

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
Yep, there is an unbiased review.

:laugh:

Need I remind you Fatty that this review is inline with the Anandtech review you pointed out earlier? Of course you have very selective memory and perception. That whole living under a bridge thing tends to do that .

Remember everyone that Fatty stated his Willamette 1.8 PIV encoded faster than a AMD64. Yes, that is correct he actually stated this. I will continue to post this everytime I see Fatty make a troll like comment in a thread to ensure that people really understand where he is coming from.

omg i need link link link

 

[guilliam]

grrr.. i regret now each and every click i made in newegg setting up a p-d rig to top it with the top of the line asus 955x chipset mobo. grrrrrrrrrrrrr.