My friend just did a tune up on my car . . .

[Lemondrop]

<<

<< Are you a ASE certified mechanic ? >>

I don't have a degree in computer engineering, but I can put one together just fine. In this case with plenty of backyard wrench turning, I can say you were &quot;misinformed&quot; about what would happen. I don't use dielectric grease quite often and the spark still makes it to the gas in the spark plug just like it should. >>


It will make it fine , just not ALL of it . If you wanna see what Im talking about , go lift your hood and make sure it is really dark out . Start the engine and stare at the plug wire where it meets the spark plug . If there is carbon tracking you will start to see a blue flame down there . It may not do anything , it could put a little whine in your radio to running poorly and or getting less fuel mileage . Carbon tracked wires like to run thier worst in rain as the humidity helps the spark jump .
I am ASE certified and I have a Degree from Nashville Auto Diesel College . I am a mechanic , that is how I make my living . As I said if you think it's BS ..... LOL , die-electric grease is just for lubrication of sparkplug boots . I guess you guys liked Slick 50 also ?

 

[slag]

<< Dielectric grease does this and nothing more:
&quot;Protects electrical connections, ignition parts and wiring from moisture, salt, dirt and corrosion.&quot;

This is a direct quote from a package of Permatex dielectric grease in my toolbox. It's used to prevent corrosion, and in this case prevent sticking of the spark plug boot to the plug.....it won't prevent carbon tracking. Misfiring due to the shorting of the wire to the block/cylinder head is almost always due to cracked plug wires or improperly seated plug wires, not from lack of dielectric grease. >>




Wrong. It will and does prevent carbon build up which leads to the plugwire shorting out to the next closes piece of metal--the head. This is common knowledge to most mechanics.
This practice has been used in the automotive world for years and just as long or longer in the high performance motorcycle/dirtbike/watercraft industry. No offense, but stick to computers because the original poster who posted this sounds like a mechanic who actually has a clue as compared to chop shop tuners who use shade tree mechanic as their only means of learning.
Also, it is important to use anti-sieze even on cast iron heads because it will prevent galling of the plugs and head. I'm speaking from experience here.

Joe

 

[perry]

Try searching for &quot;dielectric grease spark plug&quot; on groups.google.com. There's some good technical information being thrown around in there. Make special note of the posts by the guy(s) from Magnecor. They really know their sh!t and explain things in plain English.

Dielectric grease is a good thing. It provides a seal around electrical connections to keep out water and prevent corrossion. Since it prevents corrosion it makes it easier to remove the plug from the boot later down the road.

And if you believe cars (manufs) that advertise 100,000 miles between tuneups, then I have some beach front property in Utah for sale.

Nifty trick. Putting vaseline on your battery terminals will prevent that nasty battery acid build up.

 

[Lemondrop]

Your right on Joe , I said the anti-seize wasnt a big deal since most times when you pull the plugs they have had Anti already used and there is enough in the hole to keep bad stuff from going on . I swear , I wouldnt tell someone how to repair a computer and or tell them they were full of BS if they were a PC tech ......

 

[Soybomb]

<< It will make it fine , just not ALL of it . If you wanna see what Im talking about , go lift your hood and make sure it is really dark out . Start the engine and stare at the plug wire where it meets the spark plug . If there is carbon tracking you will start to see a blue flame down there . It may not do anything , it could put a little whine in your radio to running poorly and or getting less fuel mileage . Carbon tracked wires like to run thier worst in rain as the humidity helps the spark jump .i >>


99% of the cars on the road would be fine without I imagine. I assure you that there is no sparking of any kind going on outside where it should be on my ignition system, thats one thing that I feel with a turbocharger deserves a little extra of my attention. We're talking at night with a bottle of water being misted trying to find any potential shorts. Some cars may have dielectric grease as a necessity, but i think thats a small percentage unless they have poor wires.

 

[Lemondrop]

Thats why many car OEM's have started using coil-on-the-plug technology . Eliminate the plug wire completely and eliminate on again off again missfires . Nothing pisses us off more than when your vehicle comes in and nothing is broke but you leave and call up saying it is doing it again .

 

[spamboy]

It is extremely important to torque the plugs correctly. If they are not torqued correctly, they will back out and be destroyed (which usually takes the wires and gaskets out as well), or else strip and be impossible to get out. Let's hope your friend used a torque wrench when he changes the plugs, and torqued them to the factory settings. But I'd bet anything he didn't. Take it to a mechanic next time, or wait till your friend finishes school.

 

[perry]

<< It is extremely important to torque the plugs correctly. If they are not torqued correctly, they will back out and be destroyed (which usually takes the wires and gaskets out as well), or else strip and be impossible to get out. >>



Most people will torque the plugs down to TFAR standards, don't need no stinkin torque wrench. It ain't hard to figure out when the plugs are in tight enough. Just don't use a huge 1/2&quot; driver with a 2 foot extension on it and you'll be fine.

But maybe a torque wrench is better than OSTWTF...



TFAR = that feels about right
OSTWTF = Oh sh!t, that was too far

 

[Emulex]

TFAR works. Anything less than 20lbs of torque can be TFAR'd if you've done auto work before.

 

[Lemondrop]

Try getting a torque wrench back to the plugs on the passenger side of a 4.0L in a Explorer . Aint gonna happen . It's all fine on paper but in the real world you gotta play it by ear . It's important to torque them properly not enough and they loosen too much and they don't like coming out . Most people who work on cars, etc. have a feel for stuff and spark plugs have got to be the first thing any mechanic messes with . I save my torque wrench for important stuff , like connecting rods , oil pumps , cylinder head bolts , etc. You can always torque the shadetree way , tighten it until it strips then back off a half turn

 

[slag]

<< Try getting a torque wrench back to the plugs on the passenger side of a 4.0L in a Explorer . Aint gonna happen . It's all fine on paper but in the real world you gotta play it by ear . It's important to torque them properly not enough and they loosen too much and they don't like coming out . Most people who work on cars, etc. have a feel for stuff and spark plugs have got to be the first thing any mechanic messes with . I save my torque wrench for important stuff , like connecting rods , oil pumps , cylinder head bolts , etc. You can always torque the shadetree way , tighten it until it strips then back off a half turn >>



Speaking of which, last month I replaced the spark plugs on my wife's '93 Explorer. They were extremely worn down and were gapped around .095. Thats right.. they were extremely off. I put in plats and man, the explorer feels like it has new life. Just rolled over 100k also and it uses no oil at all.

That rear passenger spark plug was a BYOTCH to get off. First the boot was stuck and I bloodied my knuckle getting it off. Then getting the leverage to remove the plug was nearly impossible.. got it done, but man, i hope we sell it off before i have to change those plugs again!!

Joe

 

[Pepsi90919]

hmm, is the grease supposed to be applied to the plug boot (the rubber-type material) or the plug end itself?

 

[Lemondrop]

I put it around the plug itself and it dosent take much . If you put it in the boot when you shove the plug wire boot on it tends to squeeze up the boot and get into the terminal and also likes to pop the plug wire off from the pressure of the grease being crammed into the end . Don't put it on the plug terminal , just the white ceramic surface .

 

[HKSturboKID]

Well...just make sure u have the right plugs in there or u r in deep trouble. I remember one of my friend put in the wrong plugs and the car runs like $hit. Luckily he took them out b4 it made any damage. If u want a little more performance...Hook up an Ignition box to give it a little more pickup.

 

[Soybomb]

<< Hook up an Ignition box to give it a little more pickup. >>

Unless of course you have one of the many cars ont eh market where the stock ignition system is as good as the aftermarket ones, if not better.

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<Are you a ASE certified mechanic ?
I know what Im talking about , do you ? >>

Well, yes.


<<Better yet , call your Local Ford mechanic and ask him if a 5.0l will start shooting sparks off the plug wire to the sparkplug body/cylinder head if they don't use die-electric grease .>>

Ok bud, I AM your local Ford mechanic, and out of the 200+ cars per day (that's right, 200+) our shop works on, exactly ZERO dielectric grease is used on plug wires. I don't know of any other shop that uses it, either. If you buy high quality plug wires, you don't have to worry about carbon tracking, or arcing to the head. We see plenty of cars come in with cheap aftermarket wires that are fixed by simply installing factory wires.

<<Gap changes timing >>

Not to any degree that can be measured.

<<If you wanna see what Im talking about , go lift your hood and make sure it is really dark out . Start the engine and stare at the plug wire where it meets the spark plug . If there is carbon tracking you will start to see a blue flame down there >>

You can do that with any engine, including race engines with GOOD plug wires. No amount of dielectric grease will stop that.
A good set of Nology wires will just about stop it, though, but they're very expensive.

<<It will make it fine , just not ALL of it >>

More than enough to do the job will make it, especially with today's high-powered ignitions.

ASE simply means you can pass a test, it hardly means you know what you're talking about.
Most dealership techs are not ASE certified, but by and large, they are much more capable than your average independent garage mechanic, and you see plenty of those that are ASE certified.

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<And if you believe cars (manufs) that advertise 100,000 miles between tuneups, then I have some beach front property in Utah for sale.>>

I see cars going 100k all the time without changing plugs. Maybe you'd better hold on to that beach property?

<<That rear passenger spark plug was a BYOTCH to get off. First the boot was stuck and I bloodied my knuckle getting it off. Then getting the leverage to remove the plug was nearly impossible.. got it done, but man, i hope we sell it off before i have to change those plugs again!!>>

There's a trick to those plugs. It's really very easy, they can all be changed in about 20 minutes or so.

Dielectric grease that comes with plug wires is used for preventing water, dust, and corrosion getting in where they connect to the plugs and cap/coil. That's it. If you think coating the wires with grease will keep them from carbon tracking, then more power to you. Keep on wasting your time coating them. It makes absolutely no difference if you get a good quality set of wires to begin with.

 

[Brutuskend]

That special tool for setting gap is called a feeler gauge.
With older cars that used points in the ignition, setting THAT gap wrong will change the timing. But not so (to ANY noticeable extent) with plugs. As a ex auto mech. and Aircraft Mech. I can say I have never heard of anyone using die-electric grease on plug wire's. Though I don't suppose it could hurt, is sure isn't necessary! As far as using a torque wrench to install a plug. As long as you don't put them in so loose that they fall out, or so tight as to strip the threads. That really isn't a big deal either.

 

[perry]

<< <<And if you believe cars (manufs) that advertise 100,000 miles between tuneups, then I have some beach front property in Utah for sale.>>

I see cars going 100k all the time without changing plugs. Maybe you'd better hold on to that beach property?
>>



You say you're a Ford mechanic, huh? Tell me, how many V6 Contours have you seen where the spark plugs lasted 100k? Not many. 60k is about the limit, lots of people change em earlier. I do not buy, for one second, those claims of spark plugs lasting 100,000 miles. Only under perfectly ideal conditions.

Wanna talk to my realtor?



<< Unless of course you have one of the many cars ont eh market where the stock ignition system is as good as the aftermarket ones, if not better. >>



Hehe. Buddy of mine installed one of those Jacob's ignition boxes on his car. Went to the dyno, tested it, uninstalled, ran again. That Jacob's system is now dyno proven to lose power. He sold it on ebay for about 80% of what he paid.

 

[Basse]

I've been working on alot of cars (no pro here, enthusiast rather), and a good rule of thumb I've learned down the road is to ALWAYS use a torque wrench when refitting sparkplugs to an enginge with an aluminum &quot;top&quot; (don't know the english word for it), its very easy to overtighten it and ruin the &quot;traces&quot; (don't know the word for this one either, damn ).

For an engine with an iron &quot;top&quot; for me TFAR works just fine. But if your not used to tightening screws, bolt etc (larger ones, not talking about computer things here) I really recommend using a torque wrench.

Also, I don't know how it works in the states, but over in Europe all gas stations (or wherever you buy your plugs) carry very complete lists with all models of cars with their specific sparkplug gaps. I haven't needed to change the gap for a new-in-the-box sparkplug in 15yrs. Just check the list (or manual) and get the correct plugs. Only once have I gone beyond standard and that was with a very extremely tuned, high-compressing bike that ran on 125 octane gas. The higher octane admitted the gas to a higher compression and hence, the ignition could be set to later.

/B

 

[PG]

He was very careful when he scewed the spark plugs in and attached the wires (he also added a special grease to help if something goes wrong).


Where did he put the grease? You guys might be discussing the wrong thing here.

I would put anti-sieze compound on the spark plug threads themselves. Is this what your friend did?
It is usually recommended for cars with aluminum heads so that the threads in the heads don't get damaged. The spark plugs might seize in place otherwise.
Also, if you pull the plugs on a car with aluminum heads when the engine is warm, the threads could be damaged.
It's important to be careful on these modern cars.

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<You say you're a Ford mechanic, huh? Tell me, how many V6 Contours have you seen where the spark plugs lasted 100k? Not many. 60k is about the limit, lots of people change em earlier. I do not buy, for one second, those claims of spark plugs lasting 100,000 miles. Only under perfectly ideal conditions.>>

Don't see too many 100k miles Contours coming into the dealership anymore, but you can rest assured we install the first set of plugs at or over 100k all day long, every day, and they come in running fine.
I personally ran a set of plain old copper factory plugs in my old Bronco 70k+ miles and it was still running fine when I traded it.
Today's ignition systems have more than enough power to jump huge gaps, so it's not a stretch that plugs regularly last 100k miles.
Of course you see the occasional car here and there that doesn't make it to 100k, but these are the exception, not the rule.
I guess most people must run under &quot;perfectly ideal conditions&quot;, whatever that means.
And yes, lots of people change them earlier, most unnecessarily, and we thank them for it.

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<Only once have I gone beyond standard and that was with a very extremely tuned, high-compressing bike that ran on 125 octane gas. The higher octane admitted the gas to a higher compression and hence, the ignition could be set to later>>

You mean earlier timing. Later is what you'd set the timing to if it had a detonation (spark knock) problem.

 

[Lemondrop]

Pacfan , I was told to do this while going to NADC and by a Ford tech myself . If you put die-electric grease on a old set of plug wires that have carbon tracked already it will keep blowing to the head . If they are blowing , you gotta replace the wires and plugs to fix it . I don't care as Ive seen a ton of Ford Techs who didnt know thier can froma hole in the wall , I know what works and what a package tells you is different than what works . Old ignitions didnt have the raw voltage that new systems have . If you work at a dealership you'd know that . Im not gonna get in a pissing match here as I could careless . I put out my 2 cents about people replacing parts on thier cars , that's it . If you don't want to use DE grease , feel free . Id just like evryone to know that the people at dealers arent the best in the planet , as Ive seen dealer techs recharge a A/C system without drawing a vacuum on it . When asked why , they reply &quot; I aint got time to do that I gotta make flat-rate &quot; . Ive had friends who worked at Ford dealers , and they all use DE grease for what Ive stated . Copy some pages out of your Ford shop manuals , maybe you'll find what Im saying .

 

[Colt45]

<< It is extremely important to torque the plugs correctly. If they are not torqued correctly, they will back out and be destroyed (which usually takes the wires and gaskets out as well), or else strip and be impossible to get out. Let's hope your friend used a torque wrench when he changes the plugs, and torqued them to the factory settings. But I'd bet anything he didn't. Take it to a mechanic next time, or wait till your friend finishes school >>



you do realize were talking about changing gawd damn spark plugs..... its a no brainer....