My first simple report! NEED YOUR SUGGESTION: best cost performance athlon mobo and cpu

[ScrapSilicon]

AX-7

 

[CaptnKirk]

Note to S'Silicon - The fan you are using has the 'yellow' monitor wire, the one shown on the link does NOT.
Using the Molex/Monitor jumper will not restore a function that is not built into the fan system

But - the AX-7 is a better choice (although I do not use the 'clip-on' myself, I prefer the ZIF hard-mounts) as Copper is a good
material to bring heat IN, it does not release the heat very well - but retains the heat. Aluminum on the other hand conducts
heat pretty good, but does give the heat out into the air interface quite easily - hence, the Bi-metalics: Copper base insert &
Aluminum fin or pin thermal exchanger, the best of both worlds.


Elevated temperature of air near the copper in the case becomes an oxidizing agent, and the copper tarnishes to like a dull penny.

Ball's in your court - Checkmate.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

nm

 

[piginspring]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Note to S'Silicon - The fan you are using has the 'yellow' monitor wire, the one shown on the link does NOT.
Using the Molex/Monitor jumper will not restore a function that is not built into the fan system

But - the AX-7 is a better choice (although I do not use the 'clip-on' myself, I prefer the ZIF hard-mounts) as Copper is a good
material to bring heat IN, it does not release the heat very well - but retains the heat. Aluminum on the other hand conducts
heat pretty good, but does give the heat out into the air interface quite easily - hence, the Bi-metalics: Copper base insert &
Aluminum fin or pin thermal exchanger, the best of both worlds.


Elevated temperature of air near the copper in the case becomes an oxidizing agent, and the copper tarnishes to like a dull penny.

Ball's in your court - Checkmate.

That makes sense. i'll go with AX-7. from the reviews and u guys feedback, the only drawback of it would be the difficulty to mount.

could u guys give me more info for a quiet and powerful fan? ThX!

 

[CaptnKirk]

When I build a computer, here is what my fan choices are at what position, ans why:

1) Front bottom case intake: Panaflo 80MM, 3450RPM (No monitor circuit) provides 46.9 CFM @ 38.2 dBa - NEEDS WIRE PIGTAIL !

2) Rear exhaust: Antec 80MM Smartfan, Thermostaticaly controled (If heat goes up inside case - fan speed increases accordingly)
RPM range from 1630 to 2900, air flow from 28 CFM to 45 CFM (less than intake = positive case pressure) 21dBa to 34.5 dBa.

3) CPU fan: Y.S. Tech adjustable 80MM, 800 RPM to 3700 RPM, air flow from 10.2 CFM to 48.7 CFM, 18dBa to 39.5dBa.
This fan is set up as an 'EXTRACTION' fan to suck the air through the heatsink and eject the hot air at the intake port
of the rear case exhaust fan = get the heat out of the case's interior.
I can adjust the fan speed down to a low speed and hardly hear it at all, or turn it up for high speed performance when I have
a demanding amount of processing to do.

I can also follow the fan speed of the CPU fan circuit and the case exhaust fan speed.
FAIL SAFE: If intake fan fails, the exhaust fan will still 'DRAW' enough air to prevent a CPU disaster. If the exhaust fan fails, the case will 'LEAK'
enough air to prevent a CPU disaster. If the CPU fan fails, my ALHPA has enough mass to keep absorbing heat, and the alarm will go off at a set tempetature ( 70C on mine - with 90C being the critical temperature)

 

[Oakenfold]

Why don't you just get some TT smart monitor 80MM like the kind that come on the V7 for your case fan?
Since it seems like noise is a factor, I like my 747 IMO.

Are you experienced at building systems?
I tend to disagree with Star Trek boy about buying refurbs from newegg UNLESS you are experienced and plan to buy in lots of NO less than two. Refurbs are a crap shoot, I am willing to bet I've bought more refurbs from newegg than Kirk, most have worked fine but once again it's a roll of the dice. Newegg doesn't put that disclaimer there for no reason at all. I suggest you pay retail price, most of the time which is a measly 20.00 more and you have a warranty.

Try doing an RMA with a refurb receipt and see how far you get with Gainward, Asus etc.

Just a note I've seen the fan in person, think he brought it to the last PC show we went to just to show me..

Btw how many drives are you planning to run? 2 case fans may not be enough.
If you have 2 hard drives you might want a fan in front of one. Of course this also can relate to case size.
I have 4 fan's in my ATC 201SX, keeps my OC'd Northy in good habitat.

Rear exhaust: Antec 80MM Smartfan, Thermostaticaly controled (If heat goes up inside case - fan speed increases accordingly)
RPM range from 1630 to 2900, air flow from 28 CFM to 45 CFM (less than intake = positive case pressure) 21dBa to 34.5 dBa.

?
buzz2b is that true? don't sound right.

 

[piginspring]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
Why don't you just get some TT smart monitor 80MM like the kind that come on the V7 for your case fan?
Are you experienced at building systems?
I tend to disagree with Star Trek boy about buying refurbs from newegg UNLESS you are experienced and plan to buy in lots of NO less than two. Refurbs are a crap shoot, I am willing to bet I've bought more refurbs from newegg than Kirk, most have worked fine but once again it's a roll of the dice. Newegg doesn't put that disclaimer there for no reason at all. I suggest you pay retail price, most of the time which is a measly 20.00 more and you have a warranty.

Try doing an RMA with a refurb receipt and see how far you get with Gainward, Asus etc.

Just a note I've seen the fan in person, think he brought it to the last PC show we went to just to show me..

Btw how many drives are you planning to run? 2 case fans may not be enough.
If you have 2 hard drives you might want a fan in front of one. Of course this also can relate to case size.
I have 4 fan's in my ATC 201SX, keeps my OC'd Northy in good habitat.

thx. i won't buy refurbs...
my case is Antec 1080amg w/ 3 stock fans. i'm going to put 2 fans at the bottome front to intake air and another 2 for my HDs. now i just need to find a quiet, powerful 80mm fan for my AX-7 at a reasonable price.

 

[piginspring]

What about this fan?

maybe YS-tech is a better choice. or i should just pick a quiet fan w/ fixed speed??

 

[Oakenfold]

TT

Cooler Dimension: 80x80x77.3 mm Max. Air Flow: 20.55 CFM at 1300 RPM
Fan Dimension: 80x80x25 mm 75.7 CFM at 4800 RPM
Rated Voltage: 12VDC Air Pressure: 1.45mmH2O at 1300 RPM
Starting Voltage: 6VDC 8.43mmH2O at 4800 RPM
Rated Current: 0.20AMP ~ 0.70AMP Noise: 17 dB at 1300 RPM
Power Input: 2.40W ~ 8.40W 48 dB at 4800 RPM
Bearing Type: Two Ball Bearing Life Time: 50,000 hours
Connector: 3 PIN

VS

Specifications
1000 ~ 3000 RPM (± 10%)
10 ~ 35 dB(A)
12 ~ 46 CFM

Both can run off a resistor.

If you are spending 7.00 I would go ahead and spend another 4.00 for a much higher performance fan like the TT.
75 CFM's is gonna keep stuff cool, will sound like a turbine but of course you can alter that if need be.
I like the TT's personally. Plus it's got a neato grill!

Best Byte has reasonable shipping, I like SVC better although of late they haven't been able to keep up with customer demand it seems. If you do choose to order something from either make sure to take advantadge of it and order whatever else you think you might need, you can NEVER have too many case/thumb fan screws etc.

BTW your choice in case is a good one on the case, I've owned no less than 3 of them, I haven't owned one of the new aluminum jobs though, they look to be a bit lighter, I'm a small guy so lugging those things to LAN parties was not fun at all.

I don't know if you chose a mobo yet but I'd go with the Epox myself, there's a reason there's over 300+ posts and a stickied thread at the top of this forum.


This place is priceless when looking at new hardware
I suggest you checkout the user forums at this site, for AMD based mobo's it is one of the most active I have seen on the net, and one of the most resourceful.

Just go crazy and search through the user postings, you will see issues that you may not have known were there.

Depends on what you are going for, if you want budget and quiet there's NMB's that can be found on special that are around 24CFM

It's really up to you, most of the fan's out now are hard to say no to, it just depends on what you want at what price.

And don't be afraid to try something, if you don't like it just trade it or sell it.
Helps others out and most importantly it lets you learn.

 

[CaptnKirk]

*Note to piginspring: I did the ThermalTake Smartfan2, and in order to mount it on an ALPHA PAL8045, since the screws that come with it are 1 inch too short - and I could not locate any screws long enough to mount it, had to break out the trusty Razor Saw and Exacto-Knife in order to notch it to mount on the bottom flange - like most fans mount normaly. No sweat if you want to use it as a case fan, but as a CPU fan, be ready to modify a ThermalTake - labor intensive.

The Y.S. Tech mounts up easy, and the control knob on the Y.S. Tech is much easier to adjust than the 'Thumbwheel' (without a mounting feature) that ThermalTake uses.
If you get a Panaflo, you have to pay to but the 3-Pin or 4-Pin harness, unless you feel like soldering up the bare vendor lead to something you have with a lead.

I have used Delta fans, Panaflos, Antec, Sunnon, ThermalTake, and the Y.S. Tech. I like to place fans with specific features in specific locations to take advantage ot those features. Too much airflow in the case rear exhaust and it roars, too little fan on the CPU gets expensive - remember, the heat is going to shorten your equipment life expectancy, and only a couple degrees temperature is going to make a year or two difference in component life. Sometimes you just get feed up with a components limited functionality, and rip it out. If you get too loud of a fan you'll be dissapointed, too undercapacity of a fan has it's own problems, like warning alarms going off.

My computer is at 37C system temperature, and the CPU is at 53.50C, but in really intensive processing gets up to 59C. With the Panaflo as the CPU it would go up to 64.50, never saw it hit 65C bur it got close. With the ALPHA when it does get to 59C the temperature returns to 53.50 in about 2 minutes when intensive processing stops.

 

[piginspring]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
TT

[/i]

thanks.
most attractive part of this fan is its high CFM, but 1. it's too noisy 2. 8.40W w/ 3-pin connector might be too much for the mobo. it might burn out the PCB...

i'll definitely go for a 8k5a2+ if i can't successfully PM Staples to newegg for the kt ultra2-R + XP2000+

any more suggestions for a high performace/cost fan?

 

[piginspring]

done! just ordered MSI KT333 Ultra2-R and Retail XP 2000+ from Staples. Maybe 8k5a2+ is a bit better but Staples don't carry it...

All I need to decide to buy is a 80mm cpu fan now...... Thanks guys!

 

[Buz2b]

buzz2b is that true? don't sound right

Sounds about right to me? Do you have a more specific question?
piginspring,
As to your "Fan Dilemma", I would stick with my original recommendation of the YS Tech Variable speed unit. Reasons? The TT is just too damned loud, the Enermax (yes, I tried that one also) is louder than the YS Tech, doesn't move as much air and is harder to adjust (and less convenient). The YS Tech moves more air at lower dBA's, has an easliy mounted control knob that is extrememly convenient and works well with the AX-7.
As to your earlier question of the SK-7 (SLK700?), the performance is roughly the same as the AX-7 but at a higher price. The SLK-800 (much more expensive) has shown to be superior to the AX-7 but the price differential is not worth it unless it would be in an extreme overclocking type situation where every degree is crucial.
I hope I got back to you soon enough to be of some assistance before your selection and buying.

 

[piginspring]

Originally posted by: Buz2b

buzz2b is that true? don't sound right

Sounds about right to me? Do you have a more specific question?
piginspring,
As to your "Fan Dilemma", I would stick with my original recommendation of the YS Tech Variable speed unit. Reasons? The TT is just too damned loud, the Enermax (yes, I tried that one also) is louder than the YS Tech, doesn't move as much air and is harder to adjust (and less convenient). The YS Tech moves more air at lower dBA's, has an easliy mounted control knob that is extrememly convenient and works well with the AX-7.
As to your earlier question of the SK-7 (SLK700?), the performance is roughly the same as the AX-7 but at a higher price. The SLK-800 (much more expensive) has shown to be superior to the AX-7 but the price differential is not worth it unless it would be in an extreme overclocking type situation where every degree is crucial.
I hope I got back to you soon enough to be of some assistance before your selection and buying.

thx, Buz2b.
i'd really like to see a comparison between AX-7 and SLK-7 directly.
as for the fan, looks this one is even better than YS-Tech... any comments?

 

[CaptnKirk]

The older ThermalTake Smatrfan ( the one you linked ) is NOT as good as the ThermalTake Smartfan-2, and I just pulled one out of my system to replace it with a Y.S. Tech. Like I mentioned before - I have been disapointed with each item I have gat from ThermalTake, they put more effort into sales and advertising than they do in quality and product development.

 

[Buz2b]

i'd really like to see a comparison between AX-7 and SLK-7 directly

Ask and ye shall receive. Actually, it was there for you to see if you'd have clicked on a couple of links. Anyway, just go to this page to see a rating of the top performers. You will need to scroll down about a third of the page to find the "air cooled" HS's. You will find (and BTW, I must claim ignorance of the "SK7"; It was reviewed last month and I missed it) that the SK7 finishes second to the SLK800. The thing you need to observe though is that they use a real "screamer" of a fan on this one. The AX-7 (two varieties-P4 and AMD) finished fourth and sixth respectively. While I am impressed with the performance of the SK7 and have no doubt it would be a good investment, I think that you can find the AX-7 for at least $6-7 cheaper and at the worst you would only suffer a couple of degrees C difference. I also think that (and this comes from experience with the Thermalright SK6 that I currently use) you would need to use a "screamer" of a fan to realize this difference. The AX-7 seems to be more "tolerant" of slower, lower cfm, fans. Another factor is the sheer weight of the HS. The SK7 is one heavy mutha!
Anyway, don't get the wrong idea; I like the thermalright products and feel you couldn't go wrong either way. I do have a good deal of experience with their products and continue to buy them. At this time, I feel the AX-7 would be your best bet in your situation, with the YS Tech variable speed fan. However, if you want to go with the SK7, by all means; go for it. You can't go wrong either way.

as for the fan, looks this one is even better than YS-Tech... any comments?

Yeah, don't believe it. No way that sucker is going to spin @ 5000 rpms and maintain the noise level they claim; NO WAY! So, either the cfm is "exaggerated" or the dBA is; one or the other. The YS Tech (maybe I should be getting a kick-back for all this promotion I do for them....) does exactly what it claims as far as noise and cfm, from what I have experienced. Don't forget, with the YS Tech you will have the "handy-dandy" control knob that puts YOU in charge of when or IF you need more cooling on your cpu.
Hey, bottom line is that you have been given some good advice and done some good research on your own. 99% of the items that have been discussed would work well with what you want to do. It's just a matter of "fine details" now. Go with what will work best for you in your situation at this point in time; that is all that matters now, right? Good luck and don't forget to report back and let us know how things go. We love to read the sucess stories!

Sorry about the above link. Fixed Link!

 

[piginspring]

......Hey, bottom line is that you have been given some good advice and done some good research on your own. 99% of the items that have been discussed would work well with what you want to do. It's just a matter of "fine details" now. Go with what will work best for you in your situation at this point in time; that is all that matters now, right? Good luck and don't forget to report back and let us know how things go. We love to read the sucess stories!

Sorry about the above link. Fixed Link!

actually i've read that HSF rating at overclockers.com long time ago. ;-) but when they did those experiments, the details are different...anyway i finally purchased SK-7 based on the ranking. i love heavy stuff!! as u said, i won't go wrong... btw, the price is about the same as AX-7.

and i also picked up a YS-Tech at SVC. u guys made me spend $55 (including s/h) on cooling!!!

i'll report back when i finish the new rig. thank u all!!!

 

[Buz2b]

and i also picked up a YS-Tech at SVC. u guys made me spend $55 (including s/h) on cooling!!!

Welcome to our world! I won't even tell you the cooling setup I have. It's quite a collection though. What did you buy other than the YS Tech? Just curious, that place is like a "candy shop" to me!
As to the weight of the SK7, just make sure if you are going to transport your case any distance or ship it for some reason, that you take off the HSF first. One good jolt can cause that sucker to break a lug on the socket; not to mention the damage it could do if it came loose and flopped around in your case. OUCH! Other than that, (pardon the pun)...cool HS!
So, have you finished ordering parts? What will be the final configuration of your new toy(s)?

 

[piginspring]

Originally posted by: Buz2b

and i also picked up a YS-Tech at SVC. u guys made me spend $55 (including s/h) on cooling!!!

Welcome to our world! I won't even tell you the cooling setup I have. It's quite a collection though. What did you buy other than the YS Tech? Just curious, that place is like a "candy shop" to me!
As to the weight of the SK7, just make sure if you are going to transport your case any distance or ship it for some reason, that you take off the HSF first. One good jolt can cause that sucker to break a lug on the socket; not to mention the damage it could do if it came loose and flopped around in your case. OUCH! Other than that, (pardon the pun)...cool HS!
So, have you finished ordering parts? What will be the final configuration of your new toy(s)?

AS3(4.99) + YS-Tech + a 80mm fan grille from SVC ~~$20
SK-7 + a 80mm LED case fan ~~$37
do the screws come with the HS? i didn't order screws from SVC 'coz those looks too short...

don't laugh at me, another BIG question for o/c this XP 2000+: do i need to connect the L1 blah blah with pencil???
i think i know sth about processor and computer architecture, but am really a newbie at O/C!!!
thanks and you all have a great weekend!

 

[CaptnKirk]

Just set it up and run it with what you have now - before you try to Overclock.
You can always open it up and have the fun of taking it apart again when you know enough about the system to procede with an overclocking adventure.
There's going to be some information coming in January that may help guide you with Overclocking.

And yes, the screws that come with the fan or the heatsink will work.
You made some good choices in the end.
Let us know how it works out.

One more post and I get a Merit Badge.

P.S. - I almost threatened to send you the ThermalTake SmartFan-2 I took off,
but I going to send it to Dapunisher, he can teach it some respect.

 

[Buz2b]

At the risk of sounding like an echo, just set that sucker up and let it fly for now. O/C can come later. It is always a good idea to let things "settle in" a bit running at stock speeds. Familiarize yourself with your components, then play with and fine tune the cooling. That in itself can be a juggling act. You may find that you can do without a fan with little or no difference or need to change the direction of one to optimize the cooling. Each situation is a bit different. Once you have that done and feel comfortable, there will be a good source of information available for you to guide you through the O/C process. Nice choice of components, BTW. I'm a bit jealous of the SK7 after doing more reading on it (I currently have the SK-6) but I still think the copper base w/aluminum fins of the AX-7 will be better for me in the long run. Make sure you let us know the temps you are getting.

 

[piginspring]

Originally posted by: Buz2b
At the risk of sounding like an echo, just set that sucker up and let it fly for now. O/C can come later. It is always a good idea to let things "settle in" a bit running at stock speeds. Familiarize yourself with your components, then play with and fine tune the cooling. That in itself can be a juggling act. You may find that you can do without a fan with little or no difference or need to change the direction of one to optimize the cooling. Each situation is a bit different. Once you have that done and feel comfortable, there will be a good source of information available for you to guide you through the O/C process. Nice choice of components, BTW. I'm a bit jealous of the SK7 after doing more reading on it (I currently have the SK-6) but I still think the copper base w/aluminum fins of the AX-7 will be better for me in the long run. Make sure you let us know the temps you are getting.

i sure will let u guys know the status of my new rig - i'm still waiting for those cooling stuffs and the mobo.

but u guys didn't answer my question yet - do i need to connect L1 (unlock the cpu)?? as i said, i know things about cpu, pipeline, cache, IS, branch prediction..., but i know little about o/c.

To Buz2b: i've got some experience on optimizing cooling configuration on my old rig, fan position, direction... i'd like to start o/c the new baby now. really dont wanna bother to take of the HS & clean the thermal compound later... is the burn-in period really that important? i assume AMD already did it before selling it...

 

[Buz2b]

To Buz2b: i've got some experience on optimizing cooling configuration on my old rig, fan position, direction... i'd like to start o/c the new baby now. really dont wanna bother to take of the HS & clean the thermal compound later... is the burn-in period really that important? i assume AMD already did it before selling it...

I like to not use the term "burn-in" and instead call it "system stabilization". You're going to be making some necessary adjustments to your new system as you get things set up. All the components need to be fine tuned, just as software and OS need to be. That is what we are referring to when we suggest holding off for a bit. Get the OS, software and hardware all working like you want and expect them to. Load all your software that you normally use and run them all several times. I am also a big fan of using Drive Image by PowerQuest, (or your favorite disk imaging software) to make a copy of your system after you have things set up "just right". You see, when you start to overclock, you could push things a bit far and corrupt your OS; resulting in the necessity of starting from scratch and reloading your entire system. Trust me (and others), this can happen easily and without warning. Even if you don't go the extra step of drive imaging, you still need a "zero point" of your system so that you know what to expect and how it reacts, before you start overclocking. That's just plain good advice and "standard operating procedure" for the "good and careful" overclocker; which you should be. That is the message we are trying to convey. No one is doubting your ability or motivation at all. On the contrary, I am waiting for some numbers from you with that HSF setup you have. Of course, my wife is trying to hide the checkbook from me also.
As for connecting the bridges on the CPU, forget the pencil trick; it doesn't work with an XP processor. They are cut deep into the material. There are many online sites that can explain the procedure needed. Also, you don't even need to start messing with those anyway to overclock. You can easily push the FSB to achieve an nice increase in performance (via the BIOS), without ever connecting any bridges. If you insist on O/Cing right away; go that route to start with. Do it slowly and run stress tests (Prime95 as one example) while monitoring your temps and system stability. You might also want to download and run some of the popular benchmarking programs. Whatever you do, do it with careful, logical methods and write down everything you do and the results. It will be a wonderful "tool" for you in later O/Cing attempts.

 

[piginspring]

any detailed instruction on the HS/AS3/FAN installation? i'll get all the stuffs in a day or two... thx.

 

[Buz2b]

Here are the instructions for the Arctic silver application and here are some "basic" instructions (generic) for the HS. Thermalright usually provides an instruction sheet with their HS's though which will be more specific; usually.
One thing to mention though, in the Arctic Silver instructions it looks like they show an application of the paste a bit heavier than it actually should be. Most likely this was done for a more clear demonstration of the spreading of the paste. Your application should be really thin. Too much, in this case, is not a good thing.