My first foray into an audiophile DAC/AMP setup

[MrSquished]

Bought some Beyer T90 headphones some many many months ago. Almost a year. After some time I decided it was time to upgrade my source and amp from a Creative X-Fi card.

After lots and lots of research I decided to settle on some mid-fi stuff. Starting to peak at hi-fi but at a more affordable price point.

Ended up with a Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC aka Bimby, and a Burson Soloist XL Mk II amp. Both around $500 each.

Boy what a difference. These are high end enough to make a noticeable difference but not too high end to break the bank. It's such a point of diminishing returns with audio equipment - you can spend $500 on a DAC and it will be 80-90% of what you get with that manufacturers $1000 version. Just like the $500 Beyer T90 headphones are known as close to being just 10% off of the $1000 Beyer T1's 2nd gens.

I couldn't be more than pleased. Music is just so much more alive and vibrant, separation is clutch and overall sound is just primo vs straight out of a sound card. It's easily evident. It better be for a grand out of pocket. But it's seriously noticeable. I'll listen to music and nod my head knowingly at times.

I'll probably keep this setup for years, unless my career takes a massive spike in pay grade.

Highly recommended. Just do it.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the audiophile or whatever we all call our selves. Schitt make some good stuff. I've listened to them all. I was one of the lucky ones that got invited to their shop to see how their operations ran and current and future products. A very cool experience.

I have owned a number of DACs now but when I used the MHDT Lab Pagoda I knew I found my end game DAC. I'll not buy another until this one kicks the bucket and when that happens I will most likely just send it in for repair to MHDT. I spent around $1600 on this DAC before they even listed it on their web page for sale. I had heard they had it so I emailed them and sure enough they sold me one. Now they make two models of it and both can be had for slightly less than what I paid but let me just say, it was/is worth every penny.

I've listened to the Solo as well and actually came very close to buying one but as it is I have 5 headphone amps and my wife thinks I have 4 too many.

 

[MrSquished]

those DACS sound very nice. Maybe in some years down the road I'd upgrade to the schiit Yggdrasil DAC. Probably won't do much with the Soloist SL, it's already as good as it's 1K older brother. I think more depends on the DAC vs the Amp at this point in time.

 

[biostud]

And for a 1/3 of price you'll probably get 80-90% of your sound quality. But thats how audio works congrats on your equipment. I mainly use my cans for gaming and death metal, and not ready to invest in more expensive gear.

 

[MrSquished]

And for a 1/3 of price you'll probably get 80-90% of your sound quality. But thats how audio works congrats on your equipment. I mainly use my cans for gaming and death metal, and not ready to invest in more expensive gear.

There is always a point of diminishing returns. My research showed the sweet spot at or around the $500 range. Stuff that was 1K or so gave maybe 10-15% of the benefit over that. Perfect example was the T1 headphones vs the T90 headphones. Everybody who heard both pretty much said the T1 was like a 10% upgrade over the T90's. Of course if you can easily afford it, why not get it right? 10% is noticeable. But I couldn't so I didn't.

I did try a cheaper $200 amp and wasn't impressed. I stretched my budget to the $500 price point and hope my research was correct It was definitely a financial hit. Sonically it is working out. I've had this setup for like 9 months now. I may spend a few weeks away from my gear and then when I return it's like HOLY SHIT. But yes price vs performance is a big deal for anyone on a budget.

 

[PianoMan]

Sold my Senn HD650s awhile back, and awaiting "approval" for the HD800s (which may or may not come this decade, LOL).

Thinking of getting a set of P5s (B&W) to accompany me on business travel trips in the meantime, but waiting to pull the trigger (any trigger) on an Astell & Kern... although that may be next decade too, LOL.

Have you got a decent set of speakers and a reasonably mid-fi electronics chain? My other "epiphany" other than lifelike sound, clarity, spectral balance, etc. - when I started wading into hi-fi land, was realizing how good a nice pair of speakers can image a perceived soundstage in front of you (and simply disappear).

Welcome to the misunderstood realm of hi-end audio. I'm sure you'll enjoy the stay.

 

[WhiteNoise]

/edit changed my mind.

Enjoy your gear dude!

 

[MrSquished]

Sold my Senn HD650s awhile back, and awaiting "approval" for the HD800s (which may or may not come this decade, LOL).

Thinking of getting a set of P5s (B&W) to accompany me on business travel trips in the meantime, but waiting to pull the trigger (any trigger) on an Astell & Kern... although that may be next decade too, LOL.

Have you got a decent set of speakers and a reasonably mid-fi electronics chain? My other "epiphany" other than lifelike sound, clarity, spectral balance, etc. - when I started wading into hi-fi land, was realizing how good a nice pair of speakers can image a perceived soundstage in front of you (and simply disappear).

Welcome to the misunderstood realm of hi-end audio. I'm sure you'll enjoy the stay.

I'm an apartment dweller and soon to be condo owner in a multiple unit building so speakers are a long way down the road. As well as financially. My three puchases in the OP are the only thing I could 'approve' for the next year or two. But I can only imagine how good the sound gets with quality speakers and amps. I try not to read about them much so as not to tease myself lol

Hope you get the 800's with the wive's approval I've been dying to listen to them. Probably selling my HD 600's as well. With the T90's hitting all the right notes I'm not in need of them.

 

[PianoMan]

Thanks. Yes - read up on equipment, but try NOT to find your way into a boutique audio shop that will setup what ever you want, and let you listen to what ever you want to put on (some will even lend you the equipment overnight). That started me down the "ugly" path.

Enjoy the cans!

 

[MrSquished]

Thanks. Yes - read up on equipment, but try NOT to find your way into a boutique audio shop that will setup what ever you want, and let you listen to what ever you want to put on (some will even lend you the equipment overnight). That started me down the "ugly" path.

Enjoy the cans!

I'll avoid a boutique store for sure I prefer to do my own research anyway.

Oh I know speakers can kill cans when it comes to bass reproduction. Isn't it simply a matter of being able to move more air? But I bought these cans that came top rated for bass in the head-fi forums basshead thread. I love head-fi:
"JVC Real Sound System Z Series HA-SZ2000 Stream Woofer DB Headphones"

if you are ever craving bass but can't crank up your speakers at home, those cans are a ton ton of fun. I love them.

 

[PianoMan]

Believe it or not, it's easier to get higher fidelity bass on cans than speaks. What you miss with cans is the visceral feeling of bass energy throughout your body.

But what you don't have to deal with while listening to cans are the power requirements, cone mass needed, and above all, room acoustics. Really good bass on headphones (say acoustic, organ, even the lower harmonics of piano) will almost sound better than all but the most properly controlled and acoustically treated rooms. Of course, all bets are off if you primarily listen to electronic, bass-heavy music (or say, movie soundtracks) - quantity there is more important than absolute fidelity.

 

[MrSquished]

Believe it or not, it's easier to get higher fidelity bass on cans than speaks. What you miss with cans is the visceral feeling of bass energy throughout your body.

But what you don't have to deal with while listening to cans are the power requirements, cone mass needed, and above all, room acoustics. Really good bass on headphones (say acoustic, organ, even the lower harmonics of piano) will almost sound better than all but the most properly controlled and acoustically treated rooms. Of course, all bets are off if you primarily listen to electronic, bass-heavy music (or say, movie soundtracks) - quantity there is more important than absolute fidelity.

Interesting. Speakers are a complicated game. Not only do you have to have the right ones, and have them properly sourced and powered, like cans, but you have to play around with acoustics, room materials and room layouts and all. Many more factors. That makes sense, cans you just put on your ears right you are done - it's hard to screw that up really. I read more a few posts that said great speakers can sound like crap, or thereabouts, if not in a proper room and layout.

I do listen to 75% electronic based music but the T90's really hold their own there. Constantly amazed by them. When I want bass overload, or gaming, the JVC's come on.

 

[alcoholbob]

I think the Schitt Jotunheim is really changing the game in terms of DAC/Amp hubs. For $500 you get a headphone amplifier that puts out 7.5 watts@16 ohms, up to 900mW@300ohms, with phono and fully balanced outputs, and fully balanced pre-outs that you can run to a balanced stereo amplifier (say an Emotiva XPA-2). Crazy value. It's basically an Oppo HA-1 at half price.

Recently I switched to balanced and it makes a huge difference IMO with high resistance (300-600ohm) headphones, capable of swinging 4x the voltage of a single ended amplifier.

 

[rchunter]

I bought a Lumin T1 and love it. Before that I was just using the dac in my parasound p5 and a laptop-synology for smb transport. This Lumin is like night and day difference, it's pretty incredible for the money. I think next year i'm going to change out this parasound p5/a21 and buy a Mcintosh mc452/c52 setup. And then i'll be done for awhile. Hopefully....

 

[PianoMan]

Just looked up the Lumin unit - NICE piece!

 

[rchunter]

Just looked up the Lumin unit - NICE piece!

Thanks. Yeah it's a nice streamer. And since the British pound is taking a pounding I got it for a pretty decent price in comparison to what I would have paid in a US shop.

 

[gus6464]

HD800 was $800 brand new a couple of weeks ago. Mind you this is the original not the S but the mod to make it like the S is dirt cheap and easy.

 

[alcoholbob]

HD800 was $800 brand new a couple of weeks ago. Mind you this is the original not the S but the mod to make it like the S is dirt cheap and easy.

The mod doesnt make it like the S though, the actual method of reducing the 5.5k peak is different, also the Super Dupont modded headphone (along with the Anax mod) actually makes it a better headphone than the S. The helmholtz resonator of the HD800S reduces the soundstage, imaging, and detail of the driver. Also the HD800S has much higher distortion measurements than the original HD800.

Lets put it this way, Anax + Super D modded HD800 punches way above its weightclass and competes with the Focal Utopia, Stax SR009, and Hifiman HE1000.

Whereas the HD800S is maybe the fourth or fifth best headphone in its price class behind the Ether C/Flow, Focal Elear, and the (now price reduced) Hifiman HE1000

 

[gus6464]

I found Mr Speakers Ether to be insanely meh at Canjam. HE1000 were also meh and massive. Haven't heard the new Focals but I will at the next Canjam Socal next year. The only "high end" setup I have ever listened that made me say wow over my AKG were the HD800 on an Enigma Athena A1. I was going to buy a pair of HD6XX but they sold out in an hour before I was even awake this morning. I think what I am going to do now is wait for HD800 to hit $800 again and do the Super D mod.

 

[alcoholbob]

Why would being impressed by the HD800 drive you to buy the HD6XX though? They are completely different cans. HD800 is all about soundstage, widest soundstage of any headphones, thin midrange (part of the tradeoff of going super wide with the soundstage requires a dip in the presence region) and has a very peaky treble and is tonally thin. The HD6XX/650 is the complete opposite, no soundstage, all about tonality.

The Focal Elear is basically an improved HD650, very similar tonality (and small soundstage), just a much much faster driver (due to the use of magnesium). The Focal Utopia is basically a super duper HD650, again no soundstage, but stax-like speed with the HD650 tonality.

I love the experience of the HD800 with classical/orchestral scores, I can't lie...but after these new cans have come out (Ether Flow, Focal Utopia/Elear, HE1000V2) I just can't deal with the thinness of the sound anymore. It's too much of a 1 type of music headphone, whereas these new generation of summit-fi cans all have a tonality that works against a wide range of musical tastes.

Yeah the original HE1000 was a bit of a mess due an under dampened driver, but that's been fixed with the V2. It has about 80% of the soundstage of the HD800 but a much, much nicer tonality. The thing about the new generation of headphones is they are all going after the new rage these days --the Harman Curve.