That's the paradox - without a high GPA its just that much harder to get your foot into the door. Its a classic catch 22. Low GPA can be made up for with good work experience. Good work experience, at least in today's outsourcing and cost-cutting focused job market, requires a good GPA in the first place. Tell me of an employer who isn't so spoiled for choice and inundated with applicants that GPA is not the only practical way for them to prune the applicant pool. I know someone mentioned that their company doesn't take GPA to be the holy grail, but that's just very rare these days IMHO.
That's the paradox - without a high GPA its just that much harder to get your foot into the door. Its a classic catch 22. Low GPA can be made up for with good work experience. Good work experience, at least in today's outsourcing and cost-cutting focused job market, requires a good GPA in the first place. Tell me of an employer who isn't so spoiled for choice and inundated with applicants that GPA is not the only practical way for them to prune the applicant pool. I know someone mentioned that their company doesn't take GPA to be the holy grail, but that's just very rare these days IMHO.
No, but the thing is that I'm working my ass off to compete with all of the other former valedictorians at my college. I don't expect the world to hand me everything on a silver plate, but to go from being first to being in the lower 50%, from having a bright future to one clouded by uncertainty, even after putting in 110%, is, well, frustrating to say the least. Will I be able to get an internship this summer or even a job after graduation? Its uncertain - without fail, all the job descriptions I've read so far specify a minumum between 3.3-3.0 and I don't have any decent connections that could get me beyond that. The same could be said for graduate / law / med school. Whatever - I guess GPA is but one avenue that one can ride to success.
lol. that's ridiculous, and would never happen in a science, math, or engineering class. at least here, that would never happen in any class.
Harvard DOES have inflated GPA's. WAY WAY inflated. 90% of grades are A's.
There was a big ordeal about it not too long ago. Basically, it's unfair that they're paying for good grades and using it as leverage to get better jobs.
Connections means more than anything. But having a high GPA shows employers who don't know you that you are willing to work and obviously have some level of intelligence, plus commitment to what you are doing. I have both work experience and a high GPA, so here's hoping I get a good job offer when I get out.
For the 2002 class, 91% of the students graduated with honors. A gentleman's C basically means that once you've paid the big bucks for tuition, you'll get a C even if you totally f-off and don't do anything.
Really, maybe you should try going to Harvard before criticizing their grading policies. Sure, they do have an abnormally high number of A's. Have you ever been to Harvard? Almost all of the students there study their asses off.
dr150
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2003
- 6,570
- 24
- 81
My educational background and situation was very much identical to yours. Don't fret my friend! 
Schoolwise, your best option is: To work a couple of years and apply to business school. You'll get into a very good one.
Don't apply to med school or law schools, b/c even if you get in, the quality of school will be very much inferior to the quality of business school pogram you'll get into. Biz schools, in general, care much more about life/work experience than other grad school programs. It's the perfect vehicle for us slackers! When you're there, you'll be surprised how many dipsh!ts walk the halls. LOL!
While I know you'll ultimately do very well for yourself after you get into a good biz school, don't think working for a company is "all that". After a couple of years (i.e ~5-10), you'll hate all the backstabbing and b.s. that goes on in companies with cool/prestigious names (don't get me started on dumbsh!T bosses!). Ultimately, you'll want to do your own thing--even if it means less pay......There is nothing better than being your own master.......FWIW, I've seen soooooooooo many IVY mba'ers or lawyers quit the "white shoe" six figure rat race permanently--for the better!
School, in all its forms, is like a union card. The diploma will serve to get your foot in the door. After you're in the club, you'll forget everything technical you learned in school. You'll perhaps be a little wiser but tremendously poorer. You'll spend the next 5 years paying back the exhorbitant MBA loans. Plus, you'll notice that people that escalate rapidly within a company, got lucky in working for a well connected boss (relations is everything!) on the rise or in a rapidly growing division where monkeys could do as good a job maintaining the status-quo.
Had I known what I, and others, know today, I would have started my own business after college and pooled resources with friends--this would have given me at least a 8 year head-start rather than bullsh!tting with IMCOMPETENT bosses......Btw, I was a really fast track exec (I became a VP after 1.5 yrs of mba graduation), until I got sick of all the games, and actively left to ultimately succeed at a MUCH faster clip than wasting away in stup!d politicking.
............Btw, another example of knowing how to choose grad school programs: My bro didn't have the marks to get into a Psych MS program. He looked at his options and chose an Masters in Social Work, which is substantially easier to get into (due of little pay). After graduation/internships, he acquired a job at a university. He now earns $70k working 40 hrs/week w/ tons of vacation.
........Yup, it's all about working the system. Don't worry, your top 15 university will open MANY doors. But remember, it's NOT at all about trying to become a yuppie. You'll end up an unhappy working stiff. All your university friends will largely hate their lives by the time they reach 40. Don't FOLLOW the flock. Find something you like. That is MOST important to happiness re: the work side of things!! It's not only about engineering, law, med, or mba or competing against materialistic college "peer pressure" peers.....there's a HUGE amount of things that you can do with your time!...........I'm sure you've heard this before and I have confirmed it on my own as well, but the saying "Make yourself an expert in something and the money will soon follow" is definitely true!
That said, since I gather that you're looking at money professions, well then, without question the MBA is your best option, regardless of grades.....A good way to gain valuable work experience for the MBA programis to start your own business like "imports" for instance. It looks as impressive on an MBA app. as if you would have worked at Salomon Brothers. Again, it's all about working the system to your advantage.
My recommendation is that you should travel and work overseas (i.e. Europe, etc) and enjoy yourself. Things will crystalize as you experience new situations, girlfriends and environments. Find yourself FIRST before you choose to start a business or pursue a grad school degree--if at all. Also remember that European universities love American students so you should be able to get into a very fine school abroad...you can then return to the US or preferably stay in vacation-land Europe and have a very nice life for yourself! The choice is yours.
So don't get down on yourself. You have the world in your hands (I'm not blowing sunshine up your a$$ either). I know it's difficult, but try to lighten up on yourself and just enjoy your life! Things will ultimately sort themselves out. Take it all in stride like an old wise man.
Hopefully you'll take some things I've said to heart--it'll save you a lot of wasted time of your valuable young years.....I've been there and done that and witnessed the lives of tooo many peers from a host of top programs to not be completely sure in what I believe.
Btw, sorry or the long rant GOOD LUCK!
Peace.
Schoolwise, your best option is: To work a couple of years and apply to business school. You'll get into a very good one.
Don't apply to med school or law schools, b/c even if you get in, the quality of school will be very much inferior to the quality of business school pogram you'll get into. Biz schools, in general, care much more about life/work experience than other grad school programs. It's the perfect vehicle for us slackers!
When you're there, you'll be surprised how many dipsh!ts walk the halls. LOL!While I know you'll ultimately do very well for yourself after you get into a good biz school, don't think working for a company is "all that". After a couple of years (i.e ~5-10), you'll hate all the backstabbing and b.s. that goes on in companies with cool/prestigious names (don't get me started on dumbsh!T bosses!). Ultimately, you'll want to do your own thing--even if it means less pay......There is nothing better than being your own master.......FWIW, I've seen soooooooooo many IVY mba'ers or lawyers quit the "white shoe" six figure rat race permanently--for the better!
School, in all its forms, is like a union card. The diploma will serve to get your foot in the door. After you're in the club, you'll forget everything technical you learned in school. You'll perhaps be a little wiser but tremendously poorer. You'll spend the next 5 years paying back the exhorbitant MBA loans. Plus, you'll notice that people that escalate rapidly within a company, got lucky in working for a well connected boss (relations is everything!) on the rise or in a rapidly growing division where monkeys could do as good a job maintaining the status-quo.
Had I known what I, and others, know today, I would have started my own business after college and pooled resources with friends--this would have given me at least a 8 year head-start rather than bullsh!tting with IMCOMPETENT bosses......Btw, I was a really fast track exec (I became a VP after 1.5 yrs of mba graduation), until I got sick of all the games, and actively left to ultimately succeed at a MUCH faster clip than wasting away in stup!d politicking.
............Btw, another example of knowing how to choose grad school programs: My bro didn't have the marks to get into a Psych MS program. He looked at his options and chose an Masters in Social Work, which is substantially easier to get into (due of little pay). After graduation/internships, he acquired a job at a university. He now earns $70k working 40 hrs/week w/ tons of vacation.
........Yup, it's all about working the system.
Don't worry, your top 15 university will open MANY doors. But remember, it's NOT at all about trying to become a yuppie. You'll end up an unhappy working stiff. All your university friends will largely hate their lives by the time they reach 40. Don't FOLLOW the flock. Find something you like. That is MOST important to happiness re: the work side of things!! It's not only about engineering, law, med, or mba or competing against materialistic college "peer pressure" peers.....there's a HUGE amount of things that you can do with your time!...........I'm sure you've heard this before and I have confirmed it on my own as well, but the saying "Make yourself an expert in something and the money will soon follow" is definitely true! That said, since I gather that you're looking at money professions, well then, without question the MBA is your best option, regardless of grades.....A good way to gain valuable work experience for the MBA programis to start your own business like "imports" for instance. It looks as impressive on an MBA app. as if you would have worked at Salomon Brothers.
Again, it's all about working the system to your advantage. My recommendation is that you should travel and work overseas (i.e. Europe, etc) and enjoy yourself. Things will crystalize as you experience new situations, girlfriends and environments. Find yourself FIRST before you choose to start a business or pursue a grad school degree--if at all.
Also remember that European universities love American students so you should be able to get into a very fine school abroad...you can then return to the US or preferably stay in vacation-land Europe and have a very nice life for yourself! The choice is yours. So don't get down on yourself. You have the world in your hands (I'm not blowing sunshine up your a$$ either). I know it's difficult, but try to lighten up on yourself and just enjoy your life!
Things will ultimately sort themselves out. Take it all in stride like an old wise man. Hopefully you'll take some things I've said to heart--it'll save you a lot of wasted time of your valuable young years.....I've been there and done that and witnessed the lives of tooo many peers from a host of top programs to not be completely sure in what I believe.
Btw, sorry or the long rant
GOOD LUCK! Peace.
wow... tl;dr actually i read it all
hey, im at an ivy league university with a 2.83... and im a senior, taking 22 credits. Things are not looking good for me either. Im looking to get into a job with IT, not science (like my major).
actually i read it allhey, im at an ivy league university with a 2.83... and im a senior, taking 22 credits. Things are not looking good for me either. Im looking to get into a job with IT, not science (like my major).
dr150, wow! That's gotta be one of the most well-written and informative posts I've ever seen on ATOT, definitely something I'll be bookmarking. Thanks for the encouragement!
About biz school - I've thought about it, yet, I've never seriously considered it before. It just seems weird to leave school for a couple of years and then come back again. Plus, I've always assumed that business schools are just like other grad schools with regards to undergrad GPA's. There's also the question of how to get work experience at all, as I've already discussed in length. I like your idea of starting my own business, I've already got a bit of experience running a small eBay business from my dorm last year.
Anyways, thanks again dr150, perhaps there is hope for us lower 50% after all
About biz school - I've thought about it, yet, I've never seriously considered it before. It just seems weird to leave school for a couple of years and then come back again. Plus, I've always assumed that business schools are just like other grad schools with regards to undergrad GPA's. There's also the question of how to get work experience at all, as I've already discussed in length. I like your idea of starting my own business, I've already got a bit of experience running a small eBay business from my dorm last year.
Anyways, thanks again dr150, perhaps there is hope for us lower 50% after all
You and I have the same views in this matter. The students at Harvard are the elite of the country...why wouldn't most of them graduate with honors? What kind of courses would they have to take to make some of them not have good grades? Will they have to earn their MS or PhD at the same time as getting a BS? Or are they going to have to curve the class down massively?
WHICH SCHOOL? Some schools are more susceptible to grade inflation (i.e. Harvard) and others are not.
I very much doubt that honours is 3.7. 3.7 is an A- which is likely not far from the class average if more than 50% of students get an A. Trust me, it's very possible to make people get B's or less. I go to a well ranked school in Canada (although, I wouldn't go so far as to compare it directly to Ivy League schools) and trust me when I say the profs could fail everyone if they wanted.
The way things work in EE here is that profs give impossibly difficult, unrealistically long exams so that they (hopefully) get a nice gaussian distribution that they can then curve any way they please. If it wasn't for grade curving, many classes would have failing averages despite the fact that nearly all the students understand the course pretty thoroughly by final time. I took a physics final (honours, no less) where the class average was 26%... of course they normalized everything so that the class average was a B, hence only the best students got As.
Many profs here also use a Z-score scheme, where a fixed percentage of students get an A, A-, etc. That is only the top ~5% of students get an A, regardless of their grades, the next 10% get an A-, and so on.
In any event, all these grading schemes mean that even bright students that were excellent in high school end up with ~3.0 GPAs; only the top of the class ends up with GPAs > 3.5
yeah i hear this whole thing Its been eating me alive recently...I can hardly sleep...I go to Northwestern University and I have somewhere around 3.1 to 3.2 and really the only thing I can see myself doing is being a doctor like my father/older sister. Really I dont care what school I go to, any state school would be AWESOME in my opinion...Bio majoring is so damned tough!
How unfeasible do you guys with experience in this stuff thing this goal is?
How unfeasible do you guys with experience in this stuff thing this goal is?
Having a B average is pretty high. Where I went we had a C average as standard. Also had a "weed-out" class where the average was routinely in the 30s or 40s and there was no scale. The average in that class ended up being a D. The course and professor were notorious
I also agree that the students at Harvard are the best. Most of them will be at the top no matter what.
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