My computer build, your advice

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

I've been a laptop gamer for a while but am beginning to think about buying a new desktop.

Although I'm not a hardcore FPS twitch gamer I do enjoy games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2, etc. And, if I bought a new desktop would like to be able to play these games with high settings on a reasonably large (maybe 1920 x 1080) monitor.

I'm looking in the $1000 range for the computer excluding monitor and peripherals. I'll likely buy from Newegg, are there other retailers I should be considering?

I will not be overclocking and, in fact, here are some of my priorities:

1. Quiet
2. Cool
3. Stable
4. Power Efficient
5. Upgradable (when it is obsolete in 3 years I have an inexpensive upgrade path to keep it viable for gaming)

Because of the first four items, I have been looking at the 32nm process CPUs. Here is my current NewEgg cart:

MSI P55A-GD65 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (I've had good experiences with MSI motherboards in the past.)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL (Absolutely no memory preference, a 4GB module will allow upgrading to 16GB later)
Intel Core i5-650 Clarkdale 3.2GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I5650 (Not the fastest but a 32nm processor should run cool.)
SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity (Supposedly runs cool and quiet, not slow)
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (WD makes good drives I hear. 5 year warranty is a plus.)
LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support (I guess LITE-ON makes good drives these days.)

Other thoughts:

Is XION a known / good / reliable power supply company?

Is planning to add a second video card in CrossFire configuration when the first video card is inexpensive / obsolete a good plan or a bad plan?

6GB/sec seems like overkill for an interface for a 7200rpm magnetic drive. Should I be looking at a SATA3 interface drive instead?

It seems like Plextor is no longer the king of burners for ripping CDs, is this true?

Thanks in advance for any advice or comments.

-disperse

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

Hmm, this processor is actually 65W at 45nm as opposed to the 73W at 32nm processor I picked above:

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor BX80570E8400

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037

How does it compare in performance?

 

[sandorski]

Xion--never heard of them. Seasonic, Antec, Corsair, Enermax, and some others are more common and reputable.

The days of caring about Ripping Speed are long over. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone cares about the capabilities of Optical Drives any more, with the possible exception of Bluray Drives. They're on about the same levels of interest Floppy Drives were 10 years ago.

 

[jaydee]

Initial thoughts:

5. Upgradable (when it is obsolete in 3 years I have an inexpensive upgrade path to keep it viable for gaming)

You will not have a performance boosting drop-in CPU replacement in 3 years for any motherboard available now. Unless you go Core i3 on a 1156 right now, then upgrade to a faster quad later.


-I'd get a pair of 2GB modules for cheaper, faster dual channel RAM. I doubt you'll be needing 16GB of RAM within the lifetime of your motherboard and RAM.

-Don't get a s775 (like the E8400). It's slower and has less headroom above it than the other available sockets.

-I've never heard of XION

-Have you thought about an SSD?

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

Initial thoughts:
You will not have a performance boosting drop-in CPU replacement in 3 years for any motherboard available now. Unless you go Core i3 on a 1156 right now, then upgrade to a faster quad later.

My thought on the CPU was that the bottleneck for most games today is the VPU and I could probably get away with a cooler-running mid-range CPU.

-I'd get a pair of 2GB modules for cheaper, faster dual channel RAM. I doubt you'll be needing 16GB of RAM within the lifetime of your motherboard and RAM.

I wasn't thinking about the performance gain of two ram modules over one. Good catch there. Being able to upgrade to 8 or 12 GB should be more than enough, it's true.

-Don't get a s775 (like the E8400). It's slower and has less headroom above it than the other available sockets.

Yeah, I am wary of buying obsolete technology. On the other hand, is the CPU / Motherboard I've chosen bleeding-edge or is it fairly tested and reliable?

-I've never heard of XION

I'm willing to spend some money on a good power supply for stability, noise, and efficency. The XION is 'gold rated' but maybe I should spend another $40 for a brand name. How about this one:

SeaSonic X650 Gold 650W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151088

-Have you thought about an SSD?

It would help with both power consumption and noise but they're still expensive and I have found my 200GB laptop hard drive to be barely big enough for my neesd.

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

Actually, there were a couple reviews that complained about the noise of the SeaSonic power supply so, what about this Silver-rated supply instead:

PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk II PPCMK2S750 750W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703027

 

[solofly]

Is planning to add a second video card in CrossFire configuration when the first video card is inexpensive / obsolete a good plan or a bad plan?

Bad plan. Stay away from AMD's crossfire unless you wanna headache...

 

[sandorski]

Personally I stay away for XFire or SLI to avoid headaches. A single Card is always easier to deal with.

 

[jaydee]

Do you live near a Microcenter?

What kind of case are you looking at?

Are you fitting a monitor under this budget, or reusing any other components?

As fas as the SSD, the typical recommendation is a 40-100GB version as a boot drive, then a 500+GB mechanical drive as a storage drive.

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

Do you live near a Microcenter?

What kind of case are you looking at?

Are you fitting a monitor under this budget, or reusing any other components?

As fas as the SSD, the typical recommendation is a 40-100GB version as a boot drive, then a 500+GB mechanical drive as a storage drive.

Yes, I do live near a Microcenter.

If price was no object, I would get this case:

Antec P183 Black Aluminum / Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129061

Even though it's very expensive I may have to splurge, a good quality case really reduces noise and will make the build process so much easier (fewer bloody gashes on the hands).

I'm looking around $1000 excluding monitor.

Whoa, SSD drives have come down in price:

Intel X25-V SSDSA2MP040G2R5 2.5" 40GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167025

Is 40GB really sufficient for a Windows 7 boot drive? At $100 it's very tempting...

 

[fffblackmage]

Yes, I do live near a Microcenter.

For building a gaming rig today, I wouldn't recommend getting a dual core. Seriously, the i5-760 is only $30 more than the i5-650 at microcenter.

I'm not sure what you're looking for in a mobo, but there are much cheaper alternatives - just so you know, especially if you don't need extra features like eSATA and Firewire.

Concerning xfire, don't make your build more expensive just to have that option (more expensive PSU, more expensive mobo). If you wanted to do 5870 xfire today, I wouldn't stop you, but the idea of dropping in another 5870 later isn't recommended. By the time you want another 5870, you could just simply replace it with something better with less potential for problems.

If price was no object, I would get this case:
Antec P183 Black Aluminum / Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

You shouldn't have to spend that much for a quiet case. I think the Antec 300 is pretty good, though maybe not the quietest. Maybe someone else has a better suggestion.

Intel X25-V SSDSA2MP040G2R5 2.5" 40GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Is 40GB really sufficient for a Windows 7 boot drive? At $100 it's very tempting...

The 40GB Intel has a pretty slow write speed, unfortunately.

I'd consider getting a Sandforce-based SSD like this one: G.SKILL Phoenix Pro Series FM-25S2S-60GBP2 2.5" 60GB . $125

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

I need to cut down my budget. Any opinions on this video card:

ZOTAC ZT-40404-10P SYNERGY GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500173

Thanks all.

 

[solofly]

How about Kingston SSDNow V-Series 64GB for 88 Canadian bucks. Should be even cheaper down where you live...(its not the fastest but it's fast enough and cheaper than most)

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...29746(ME).aspx

 

[solofly]

I need to cut down my budget. Any opinions on this video card:

ZOTAC ZT-40404-10P SYNERGY GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500173

Thanks all.

What resolution do you play your games at?

 

[Sp12]

There's really no reason to get an i5 dually. For the 22 watts over it the i5-760 has, the extra two cores will blast that dually for perf/watt.

 

[mfenn]

You've gotten some good advice from everyone else so far (especially jaydee regarding obsolescence), so I'd like to echo that. i5 760, ~$100 P55 mobo, 2x2GB DDR3 1333, GTX 460 1GB is a (deservedly) popular gaming build right now.

As for the PSU, the X650 is very expensive, but is also very nice. Whoever complained about the noise must've been on drugs. It turns it's own fan off at low loads. That being said, I would just save the money and get a 500CX.

 

[jaydee]

Check out this much less expensive, quiet (maybe not as quiet as the P183) case:

LIAN LI Lancool PC-K7B Black Aluminum for $83 shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811112154

You could also bump down to an Antec 300, I see $45 after $10 rebate shipped. It's steel instead of aluminum, has fewer nicities, but is a good case for a great price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042



Since you're near a microcenter, you will buy the Core i5-760 there for $170
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0341729

The GTX460 1GB is indeed a great price/performance and performance/watt card, I'm just unsure if you can play all those games you mentioned at 1920x1080 high settings.

Honestly, looking at your priorities:

1. Quiet
2. Cool
3. Stable
4. Power Efficient
5. Upgradable (when it is obsolete in 3 years I have an inexpensive upgrade path to keep it viable for gaming)

#3 is not an issue, stability has improved a ton across the board over the last 10 years.
#5 as we already said is not possible at this time

#1 is subjective as is 2 & 4 (which go hand in hand). How quiet? How cool? How efficient? If you're being very strict about these, you're not going to be able to game 1920x1080 high settings for under $1,000 I'm afraid (watercooling, gold cert PSU's, etc).

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

Is there a big performance difference between a 768MB 460 GTX and a 1GB 460 GTX?

COOLER MASTER makes a computer case specifically for silence which is a it over $100 including the power supply:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119207

My wife wants to get a tablet computer for work so this purchase may be put off for a bit. That said, I've changed my options based on everyone's advice:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Egg:

COOLER MASTER Sileo 500 RC-500-KKR3-GP Black Aluminum Bezel, SECC Body ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power
$109.99

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$87.99

ZOTAC ZT-40404-10P SYNERGY GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$164.99

Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR
$69.99

ASRock P55 Extreme LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
$101.99

Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760
$208.99

Subtotal: $743.94
Shipping: $ 24.82
Mail-in Rebate: $ 25.00
Grand Total: $743.76
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Micro Center:

MSI P55-CD53 LGA 1156 P55 ATX Motherboard
$109.99

OCZ Technology Gold Series XTC Cooler 4GB DDR3-1333 (PC3-10666) Dual Channel Memory Kit (Two 2GB Memory Modules)
$79.99

Zotac ZT-40401-10P GeForce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 PCIe 2.0 x16 Graphics Card
$169.99

Hitachi Deskstar 0S02860 1TB 7200 RPM 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
$69.99

Cooler Master Sileo 500 Silent ATX Case
$84.99

Intel Core i5 760 Processor Boxed
$169.99

Subtotal: $674.94
Shipping: $ 0.00
Tax: $ 42.18
Mail-in Rebates: $ 70.00
Grand Total: $647.12
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll have to add $140 to either price for Windows 7 and may splurge for a SSD HD as well.

(P.S. I have a legit copy of Windows XP Professional lying around, anyone still using XP, is it even compatible with new processors?)

 

[jaydee]

Your last post is kind of confusing since there's so much overlap. The Samsung F3 1TB goes for $60 at Superbiiz.com, and is generally regarded as the top mechanical drive around, both quieter and better performing (albiet 3 yr warranty, not 5 year like the WD Black).

Yes, all your components will work fine with WinXP.


BTW, if this purchase will be put off a month or so AMD's 67xx-68xx will be out then, so you'll be looking at different video cards most likely. If two months, we're looking at completely different SSD's likely. If three months+, you're pushing into the Sandy Bridge release will which will at least alter the pricing landscape on the 1156's (I would think). RAM will probably continue to drop.

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

Sorry about the confusion. I'm maintaining two different shopping carts to compare the deals between Micro Center and Newegg.

I'm thinking I will buy the $85 case at Microcenter (it is discontinued, the price is good, and my local Microcenter has only one left) and then hold off for a month or two on the rest.

By the way, this is the tablet PC my wife wants to get:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16834220713R

Thanks again everyone.

 

[jaydee]

I'm not really convinced that's the best case for the price. If that's the only component you're looking at right now, I'd post over in the Cases and Cooling forums and see what they have to say about the best case for cool, quiet and budget.

The Antec Sonata III is suppose to be good for this as well, is $90 AR at newegg and comes with built-in 80cert Antec EarthWatts 500W PSU which will be enough for you.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129024

 

[d_i_s_p_e_r_s_e]

OK, good idea. I'll see what people are saying about the Antec Sonata vs the COOLER MASTER Sileo over in Cases and Cooling.

 

[fffblackmage]

If you're playing games with a 1080p monitor, you'll want the 1GB GTX460 instead.

 

[mfenn]

If you're playing games with a 1080p monitor, you'll want the 1GB GTX460 instead.

This. And don't get that OCZ RAM! Stick with the G.Skill.

Also, there's no rule that you can't buy some stuff from MC and some from Newegg.