My CM Stacker 830 Evo Water Cooled (first WC system)

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: ThaJollyMan
Thanks for the comments!

JPB...i say stupid thanksgiving only because i have to work that day...otherwise i love thanksgiving...I loves me cranberry's and turkey!

BonzaiDuck...that fan controller looks sweet...i was looking at the Zalman mfc1 and i never really saw that Silverstone commander...but if i am going to order one then you have just made up my mind on which one to get, cause that one looks SCHWEEET!
I am assuming that that fan controller can use 4 pin molex connectors to control the fans instead of having to buy 4 to 3 pin adapters? That controller looks like it would be perfect for my case...no knobs or lights on the front...all internal...awesome! I will have to wait a bit before buying that though, seeing as how i just dropped over $400 on the water cooling components. BonzaiDuck...do you have this controller? As for the stock cooling on the GPU's...i did order 2 universal GPU blocks from Koolance.com. Here are the components i ordered:

CPU Block: http://www.koolance.com/water-...nfo.php?product_id=664

GPU Block x2: http://www.koolance.com/water-...nfo.php?product_id=566
(not a big fan of the aluminum tops...but we'll see how they perform)

Resorvoir: http://www.koolance.com/water-...nfo.php?product_id=652

Pump: http://dangerden.com/store/pro...uctid=356&cat=4&page=1

120.1 Rad: http://dangerden.com/store/pro...ductid=1&cat=85&page=1

120.2 Rad: http://dangerden.com/store/pro...ductid=2&cat=85&page=1

Tubing: http://dangerden.com/store/pro...ctid=372&cat=33&page=1
(i ordered this tubing because it is supposed to be the most fexible on the market)

Liquid: http://dangerden.com/store/pro...ctid=317&cat=63&page=1

the water flow setup i had in mind is going to be:

pump->cpu->120.1 rad->gpu1->gpu2->120.2 rad->resorvoir->pump

I am thinking later on if i want to add chipset cooling i can just put the NB and SB blocks between the cpu and 120.1 rad. So, it would be cpu->NB->SB->120.1 rad and so on. Youg uys think the pump i listed would be strong enough to handle all that in teh future?

I am using Thermaltake thunderblade fans that do a maximum of 75 CFM. Any ideas on the air flow for the fans? As i said before i will have 2 fans on teh bottom of the case and one on the top. One fan on the 120.1 rad which will be placed on the rear exhaust port of the case and the 120.2 rad in the front. Just wanted to get some ideas for the push or pull(intake/exhaust) of the fans in the case. This is what i was thinking:

120.2 rad: intake

120.1 rad: exhaust

2x bottom case fans: exhaust

1x top case fan: intake

If i decide to put a fan in the window i was thinking of setting it up as intake for cool air on the gpu ramsinks. Any other ideas are much appreciated!
Just read this reviewon the Silverstone commander...

http://www.techpowerup.com/rev.../Commander_ESA_Edition

Apparently i will need to purchase 4 to 3 pin adapters

Sorry so long to get back. To answer your question: Yeah, I have it. I'm reee-ally happy with it. The criticisms (thumb down) in the review link -- some of them -- aren't really justified. For instance, they diss the front bezel. For some cases, you can remove it, and install the 5.25" bay-cover that comes with the case.

I never purchase 4-to-3-pin adapters. I save all my three-pin plugs and wires from old computers, and just solder them. Thing is, if you don't have fans with tach-wires, you can't monitor the speed, but I believe you can control it, anyway. I always buy fans with tach wires and tach-monitoring.

I'll explain briefly my history on this issue. I ALWAYS thought manual, rheostat-adjustable fan controllers were clunky, even though I have a few installed in older machines. I have a friend who can't abide by ANY thermal control of fans -- he has to manually adjust everything.

Once I'd had a taste of SpeedFan thermal control of a Delta-Tri-Blade 120x38mm CPU fan, I wanted to thermally control everything. Everything! Unfortunately, the mid-range mobo I was using at that time did not provide for thermal control of anything but the CPU fan-plug, so I was searching around for other alternatives.

Eventually, I noticed that Sunbeam Tech was producing a unit called the Theta 101, I read a review of the product, and ordered it. This was the biggest scam I've ever seen: blue-and-white rheostat adjusters on the original review sample were conspicuously absent from the unit I ordered; the software didn't control anything; the unit only applied full power to the fans plugged into it; and because the software didn't work, the thermal sensors were useless. Soon, I found that Sunbeam's RMA department was not taking calls. I called them four times at their City-of-Industry location; never got a return call, and eventually gave up.

Then, I got a Striker Extreme 680i mobo. Q-Fan and the eight three-pin plugs with three associated thermal sensors spoiled me completely. So when I acquired an eVGA 780i board, I was severely disappointed over shortcomings in BIOS fan control. So I started looking around again, and discovered the Silverstone Commander.

Here, I still have problems, but not because of the controller. I have an E8600 CPU with the "stuck" thermal sensors, and the nVidia Tools software departs from the old version, discontinuing the monitoring of the TCase sensor. It only reports the TJunction core temperatures, and those sensors are stuck at 56C. I contacted Silverstone, they contacted nVidia, and reported back to me that nVidia would revise their software to include TCase by end of this year.

That leaves the tape-on thermal sensors that come with the Commander. This doesn't resolve my problem per the defective CPU sensors, though, because the thermal wattage of that processor is so low, taping the sensor to the side of the heatsink base doesn't register enough of a change to allow the sort of fan control you'd want. In the interim, I discovered that the PWM fan that comes with my heatpipe cooler is so quiet, it doesn't freaking matter for now.

However, the sensor-driven, thermal control of fans through ESA and the Commander still works. You can control all the fans attached; you can control a waterpump; you can control lights. Once you've defined a "profile," you can trim all fans to a desired speed through the software. The thermal control feature works if you can monitor temperature changes over a wider range than a few degrees centigrade, and of course you could set the sensors to respond to changes in room ambient.

 

[ThaJollyMan]

Thanks for the delayed reply a reply is a reply late or not. Anyway, i am not skilled with a soldering iron and dont even own one. I suppose i could borrow my buddies, but then i dont have any spare 3 pin connections lying around either. I figure i will just order the adapters when i order the controller. the fans i have have a tach wire but dont have the other two wires for controlling the fan speed. As for the review that i read about the commander, some of the stuff was really kind of nit-picking. OMG it has straight line down the front of it...lord help me its not going to match my case! Reeally you could prolly just take the front off and slide it back a little more into the bay and slap your original bay cover on there. One question Bonzai...does the controller have the same depth as a optical drive? Like i said before, you have me convinced. What is more appealing to me about the controller is that there arent any lights or fans on the front panel and Automatic thermal control is sweet. thats next on my purchase list. Bonzai do you have your MB chipsets water cooled or stock cooling. I would like to go water cooling on those parts but thats another $100 that i am not ready to spend...can you suggest something that will cool the chipset better than the stupid stock fan on there? I was thinking of buying a faster 60mm fan and using some double sided tape(weather stripping) to stick it on there. Both my NB and SB idle at about 52c and get into the 60's load.

 

[ThaJollyMan]

Anyway all done ...i just wrote a bunch of shit to explain some stuff about the install but i figure if anyone has questions they can ask on here. Here are some pics:


http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2157.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2158.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2159.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2161.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2162.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2168.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2169.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2177.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/al...ly_bucket/IMG_2178.jpg


Specs are in the sig...As for water cooling components... I went with all Koolance waterblocks, compression fittings, t-line and Reservoir...from koolance.com.

The rads i ordered from damger den...they are the black ice extreme II(120.2) and the black ice extreme(120.1). The pump was also from DD, cpx-pro (900 lph).

The tubing is primochill primoflex clear, 3/8" ID 1/2" OD, and used Feser One UV blue coolant. I do plan on adding a UV light and the plexi window In the next week. Thanks for reading!

Oh and if you guys have any comments on my cable managemewnt and how to improve it let me know. The stacker 830 doesnt seem to be very cable management friendly. That is ALL!!

 

[WoodButcher]

Haha! Nice! That's not the normal hang out for the hds', is it?
Have you had an opportunity to experiment with the airflow? If you have post your findings for other stacker owners.

 

[ThaJollyMan]

Hey woody was that a question about the hard drives? That will be the normal hangout...the WC components took up so much space that i really didnt have any where to go with em. Thgey are being held up by some old steel shelf holders and taped down with some weather stripping. I know i KNow...kinda ghetto...but it works and also adds a bit of sound dampening.

Well i couldnt be more happy with my water cooling results. I guess my main reason for going WC was to cut down on temps and cut back on noise. It seems as though both goals have been achieved. My core temps for my processor stayed exactly the same in idle @ 33,34,35,35 and load @ 35,35,38,38(the load temps dropped by about 10*c). The other big thing were the GPU's, they were soooo loud and soooo hot. Idle GPU temp with fan @ 100%<or=39*c and loaded @ 65-70*c. Now they idle @ 30 & 35 and load @35 & 45(max oc). As for the fan setup wood butcher i have tried a few different ways but it doesnt seem to matter too much. Seeing as how the stacker 830 is so wide open its always pulling air in from some other place rather than a from a fan vent. I ended up using 2 fans in the bottom as intake and using the 2 front fans as intake then utilizing the rear fan and top fans as exhaust. It seems to work well but right now the case is practically wide open with no window on it. We'll see if that changes when it becomes a bit more enclosed. Thanks for all your help/input WoodButcher, much appreciated. What do you think of the layout? Acceptable, cable management? Even with my cables out in the open at least they are tied together...ive seen some cases with a birds nest so bad that you couldnt see the drive bays from the inside. Overall i am happy just wish there was a way to improve on the cabling

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[WoodButcher]

Yeah, I like your work and ideas. The hd location is great, have you installed them so they are easily removed and remounted? I always use at least rubber washers but the neoprene foam weatherstrip is always a better choice. Inner tube rubber cut into strips makes a good strap for holding hds also. My hard drives.
As for the wiring I'm sure you'll rework it again and again. There was a thread stickied around here somewhere, have a look, maybe an idea will pop. Here is my current birdsnest.

 

[ThaJollyMan]

Hey wood is there an easy way to replace a section of tubing without draining the whole system? The tubing that connects my gpu's looks lik eit is kinking a lot more than what i would say is acceptable.

 

[WoodButcher]

Not really, this is why I use a t-line and a res. attach additional lengths of tubing to the T and fill ports and drain into a pan. To help the process along sometimes I'll use low pressure compressed air, no more than 5 or 10 lbs PSI. I expanded a rad at 25 lbs once while leak testing, not pretty.
If it is on the suction side of your pump you may be able to relieve the situation temporarily by opening the fill port or T while running and adding more liquid. Careful though, my loops expel water from the t line when running, nice for bleeding air but a PITA if you don't have the cap or a spring clamp handy to kill the flow.

 

[aigomorla]

i saw this with great sadness, but people seem to never learn about mixing metals.

I try to edjucate, and teach, but it seems like you need to encounter the hardship of corrosion to learn never to mix metals.


Mixing metals is very bad. Most of the time its done so you can add bling... which makes it even more sad.

If you can avoid mixing metals, i highly recomend this approach as the end scenario in mixing metals is very heart breaking...

 

[WoodButcher]

You were asleep on the job again Aigo?
Yeah Jolly ordered before we could bi@tch loudly enough. Use the additives....

So what was the corrosion on that plug Aigo? was it rust or what?

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
i saw this with great sadness, but people seem to never learn about mixing metals.

I try to edjucate, and teach, but it seems like you need to encounter the hardship of corrosion to learn never to mix metals.


Mixing metals is very bad. Most of the time its done so you can add bling... which makes it even more sad.

If you can avoid mixing metals, i highly recomend this approach as the end scenario in mixing metals is very heart breaking...

@Aigo. Is there a way to overcome the mixing metal / corrosion issue using additives on a long term basis.

This is purely for curiosity (in case I've cocked up).

I personally, have tried to avoid mixing metals on my own first time liquid cooling build whilst dipping my feet and gaining first hand experience in the world of liquid cooling. I admit that I may have mixed metals without realising due to my inexperience (and how would I know until the worst happens). Its harder to learn from other people's mistakes than it is from your own.

Sorry for the rant and I always appreciate other's opinions regarding my own component choices (deference goes out to Aigo and Woodbutcher).

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: WoodButcher
You were asleep on the job again Aigo?
Yeah Jolly ordered before we could bi@tch loudly enough. Use the additives....

So what was the corrosion on that plug Aigo? was it rust or what?

recient market is making my work pull more time off me.

Since your mixing metals, you need to go premixed coolant for the best protection. I recomend innovotek coolant.

Mixing metals is something you yourself control. You need to find out what the wetted parts are, and if your ever unsure, ask, and if you get no response, find a new product.

Heres what happened to me when i found out these plugs werent brass!

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_1156.jpg

Copper + Copper = safe

Copper + Brass = safe

Copper + acrylic = safe

Copper + silver (small amounts) = safe!


Copper + (some grade steel) = NOT SAFE
Copper + Alu = Defeinitely NOT Safe

Im trying to save you guys from that plug incident on a much larger scale... this is just a plug, imagine if it was a block.

 

[ThaJollyMan]

@Aigo

I was just wondering with the mixing metals thing...all the blocks are nickel plated with the exception of the gold plating on the gpu blocks. Do you think this will still have corrosion problems...even using anti-corrosive liquid? Aigo you think it took you long enough to get to this thread? Its been up for like 2 weeks. Anyway, i hope i don't have the problems that you had with mixed metals. I was looking at a list of metals and their corrosion factors. It seems as though nickel is almost up there with gold for being one of the least corrosive. Also, the plugs i got with the reservoir are nickel plated brass.

@Woody

I was able to replace the tubing that linked my gpu's just by setting the case on it side, using some pliers on the influent and effluent tubing(to prevent the liquid from draining through) and placing some paper towels underneath the tubing to be removed. I slowly unscrewed the fitting on one side and let the liquid inside that piece of tubing drain out. Surprisingly enough i didnt really need the pliers to block the flow. I think that by setting the case on its side it helped relieve any type of gravity fed pressure and it kept the system from draining completely. I didnt want to drain the system because all i had was one 1k ml bottle of the liquid and i used about the whole thing to fill it up. I did install a t-line for draining when the time comes to replace the liquid.

Thanks for the comments guys!

Hey aigo, you think you could help me with OCing my q9450...i am having problems. I am going to make a thread in CPU's and hopefully you would be kind enough to help me out. Thanks!

 

[MarcVenice]

Damn sweet rig ThaJollyMan. Guys like you and threads like these really want me to get my feet wet, as soon as I have enough spare cash! I probably wouldn't even mind having downtime of 1-2 days, coz I'd be messing around with all those cool parts. Btw, if I were you, I'd try removing a fan here and there ( not on the rads ofcourse ) and I bet things will remain equally cool, yet quiet down significantly.

 

[ThaJollyMan]

Thanks Marc...

Threads like this are the reason that i wanted to go ahead and do something like this. I was a bit nervous after i put everything together hoping i didnt "f" up the hardware with all the block installs and hoping that when i connected all the tubing it was all connected right and something wasnt going to start spraying as soon as i turned on the pump. Definitely go for it when you have the money and time, it was fun and i feel like i accomplished something new that i had never tried before.

As for Aigo...thanks for all the compliments on the completed work. Granted i mixed metals, but i assumed that because that everything was nickel plated(including the Al) that it would be ok if i just used non-corrosive coolant...which i planned on using whether i mixed metals or not. I just wanted to say thanks for the "Job well done" on the build.

Woody thanks for your help through this whole thing... it was very nice of you to help along a WC noob...even though i did mix metals. Its much appreciated! I would also like to thank my mom for giving birth to me and "the academy", my agent, my wife and anyone else that has made a difference in my watercooling experience J/K

Woody i am going to do some fan moves and check out thermal performance...will post results when i get a chance.

 

[aigomorla]

gold is very uncorrosive.

Thats why they plate terminals in gold. Not because it conduct better, but its very unreactive.

I dont like plating tho, it can chip, so if its plated, i like it to be plated under a copper core.

Then you dont need to worry about it even if the plate does chip.


And yeah sorry, been real busy, i pop in make sure people are getting help. Woodbutcher is friend of mine, and i trust his judgements.

 

[WoodButcher]

Thanks Aigo for the vote of confidence, for me when trying to help and offer opinion or fact, admitting what you don't know is just as important as the advice itself, I'm not current with the new chips and probably won't be till they are old tech, I don't have the need and with this economy can't afford the "hobby" of the latest, greatest, just for the sake of it.
Till such time as I catch up TIA for taking my PM's asking for advice and direction.

 

[The Beast]

TJM, just saw the thread, good job on the case...

I have a CM 830 myself and planned on doing exactly what you posted originally for your layout. I may have missed it in there thread here, but do you care to share why you went with teh routing you did over your original idea?

For me, my stacker didn't come with the casters, so I need to contact CM about that, but I do plan on putting a 2x120 rad at the bottom, with the fans inside the case blowing out through the radiator. I also planned on putting a single 120 rad up top like you did, care to share how you mounted it? (as in did you just drill holes in the fan holder and bolt the rad and fan to the holder then just snap that back into the retaining tangs on the case?)

I currently have a GTX280, but plan on another one, as I have a 780a motherboard along with a Phenom 9950BE. The temps right now with a 2.95GHz clock on the processor get up to 63c, but that is with AS5 and no real cure time, so it may drop, but I have been wanting to go watercooling anyways so I wasn't really concerned...

In regards to the videocards, since mine right now is an XFX with a lifetime warranty, and considering how hot they run, I am considering not voiding the warranty with removing the stock HSF and just run it air cooled... Same goes with an additional one, that way if either burn out I can get them replaced under warranty. If they were eVGA or BFG cards I would definitly go with watercooling on them as well, but XFX considers any removal of the stickers as voiding the warranty, so that is out, unless I trade cards or something...

I have figured you can piece together a much better system than buying something packaged (like the CM ESA system) that is more exapandible and cools better... Unfortunately the motherboard I have (ASRock K10N780SLI3X-WiFi) really won't lend itself to an 'easy' chipset watercooling solution so reasonable airflow through the case is still required. Since I currently have all my fans down so low they aren't much of an intrusion over my main server less than 10 feet away I figure I can live with a little noise as long as the cooling temps drop way down...