My casual family hauler car buying thoughts on the current vehicles:

[Red Squirrel]

Sedans are also much rarer now, they just don't make that many models but push the SUVs more. Sedans don't make car companies enough money.

 

[Brainonska511]

Sedans are also much rarer now, they just don't make that many models but push the SUVs more. Sedans don't make car companies enough money.

They make money for auto manufacturers, they just don't make as much as up-selling someone to a crossover or [pick size] SUV. And then they also don't sell as much sedan volume because they've dedicated years of advertising to up-sell people into higher margin vehicles (and it turns out, advertising works).

 

[Torn Mind]

There are these things called magnets. You can have a company sign printer on a sheet of magnet. Remove it before you get home.

If the vehicle has a paint job like an ADT van or some plumbing company, a magent won't do. (It's an HOA).

 

[Torn Mind]

No, most individuals are simply susceptible to years and years of advertising and an auto industry that pushes these higher margin vehicles at the expense of fuel economy and safety (for both those inside and outside the vehicle). I would bet for most people, a mid-sized SUV is not "more useful" than a hatchback or a sedan. They just think it's more useful.

Advertising is the most superficial of experiences. Eventually, the homo sapiens will experience tactile feedback and actually using the thing in a dealership. Actually, if it's people buying a Toyota, advertising is probably the least important, but rather other cars being shitty to them in the past.

Heck, even the 80 year lawyer with a handicap tag(hired for a car accident) drives a Venza, and based his career, advertising would be something he wouldn't just listen to at face value.

Monkeys might be dumb, but 30 seconds of screen time isn't going to do jack.

Heck, if it's good advertising, everyone would be buying a Chrysler or Dodge because quite frankly, they've made the best ads I've seen for the very limited time I watch TV.

 

[Ajay]

Went 2 weeks ago to look at the RAV XLE. 2 on the lot, black or white. Sticker was $33.5K with $2K of add ons. "Whats the OTD $?" $35.5K plus tax, title, tag. Called the other dealer, had a white or red....same, refused to deal on the price. Fuck em, we don't need to buy. People that have to are getting screwed.

Sept 2009, they refused to deal because of cash for clunkers. Went back in Nov 2009 and got that RAV for $2K under because the sales dried up.

I was "told" that they keep inventory low because it costs the dealer to have a lot full. Surely, there's a lot full of them somewhere.

- It is a game. It is only a game. - So is this.

The Matrix Reloaded (2003) clip with quote - It is a game. It is only a game. - So is this. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.

getyarn.io

Eh, this 'yarn' thing doesn't show the clip - boohoo.

 

[highland145]

- It is a game. It is only a game. - So is this.

The Matrix Reloaded (2003) clip with quote - It is a game. It is only a game. - So is this. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.

getyarn.io

Eh, this 'yarn' thing doesn't show the clip - boohoo.

Well, I ain't playing it when the house always wants to win.

 

[Zeze]

SUVs have become popular over sedans / vans / station wagons because...

1. AWD was synonymous with SUVs. Your suburban fam wants that better traction in winter.
2. It taps well into the consumer mindset of everyday people go do nature crap in the weekends, thus SUV = more perceived freedom with AWD and higher clearance
3. Auto mfg leaned into where the demand was forming. So SUVs became more tailored towards residential use.

Remember BMW was never gonna sell out and make SUVs because their motto is performance driving machines or whatever?

 

[TXHokie]

I've had a Buick Enclave SUV past 6 years which is same as a Chevrolet Traverse but much nicer trim. It's been rock solid coming up on 8 years old only needing the regular oil change and have had to change the battery once. It's been a great family hauler with a full third bench seat when my kids are now grown teenagers. Previously had a Honda minivan and that thing had lots of issues with transmission and software (jerky upshift until software update fixed it) and lame leather quality that was starting to tear on year 10. It was also way underpowered compared to the Buick that will burn rubber if I floor it. For me I prefer to buy cars 2-3 years old used fully decked out with options but is still under warranty, generally let someone else take the depreciation hit when they drove it brand new off the lot.

 

[bbhaag]

SUVs have become popular over sedans / vans / station wagons because...



Remember BMW was never gonna sell out and make SUVs because their motto is performance driving machines or whatever?

Yep, it's hard for manufacturers to deny the popularity of the suv and cuv. Back in the mid teens Ferrari ceo and designers were famous for saying they will NEVER make a 4 door suv.....less than a decade later the 2024 Purosangue will launch next year.

There is a reason to. The Macan, Urus, and Stelvio are the best selling vehicles for Porsche, Lamborghini, and Alfa Romeo.

 

[Brainonska511]

SUVs have become popular over sedans / vans / station wagons because...

1. AWD was synonymous with SUVs. Your suburban fam wants that better traction in winter.
2. It taps well into the consumer mindset of everyday people go do nature crap in the weekends, thus SUV = more perceived freedom with AWD and higher clearance
3. Auto mfg leaned into where the demand was forming. So SUVs became more tailored towards residential use.

Remember BMW was never gonna sell out and make SUVs because their motto is performance driving machines or whatever?

1. AWD is probably overrated for where most people live, and manufacturers have done a fantastic job convincing people they *need* this
2. They don't actually have substantially more space to be able to do outdoor things (and there are certainly some that might take advantage of outdoorsy stuff, but again, advertising has helped people create a self image of what they might be if they buy a certain car, even if they don't do those things)
3. Yes, they leaned into demand, but they also created demand through advertising and pushing sales to higher margin vehicles. The demand does not exist in a vacuum

For manufacturers that didn't want to join the craze, it simply became a case of having to offer an SUV or substantially lose our on future sales.

I would also say that cheap gas has continued to drive this trend. Gas is not expensive enough to make people think twice about buying large vehicles with mediocre fuel economy.

 

[Zeze]

Also fuel economy went up as well - engines just got better.

 

[Brainonska511]

Also fuel economy went up as well - engines just got better.

Fuel economy has certainly gone up, but a lot of the gains were squandered by putting them in unnecessarily heavier vehicles.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

13 years old isn't old for an Accord. When you say "acting funky" what do you mean? My Honda Product of Similar Vintage gets weird electronic gremlins when the battery needs replacement, but... that's a pretty easy fix.

 

[Zeze]

Fuel economy has certainly gone up, but a lot of the gains were squandered by putting them in unnecessarily heavier vehicles.

If you're mad about the environment impact because of ads pushing SUVs, I think you should totally celebrate the overall reduction from consumer cars thanks to EVs breaking well into the market and also ICEs having industry-wide reduced emissions due to aggressive govt mandating. This is why cars are all fitted with turbo instead of V6.

 

[nakedfrog]

13 years old isn't old for an Accord. When you say "acting funky" what do you mean? My Honda Product of Similar Vintage gets weird electronic gremlins when the battery needs replacement, but... that's a pretty easy fix.

I recall hearing that V6 Accords around that vintage having oil consumption issues tied to oil control ring problems.

 

[sdifox]

I recall hearing that V6 Accords around that vintage having oil consumption issues tied to oil control ring problems.

yeah, they cheaped out on the rings so you need an engine rebuild to replace rings. At least mine (2012 Odyssey) was covered by Honda.

 

[Red Squirrel]

1. AWD is probably overrated for where most people live, and manufacturers have done a fantastic job convincing people they *need* this
2. They don't actually have substantially more space to be able to do outdoor things (and there are certainly some that might take advantage of outdoorsy stuff, but again, advertising has helped people create a self image of what they might be if they buy a certain car, even if they don't do those things)
3. Yes, they leaned into demand, but they also created demand through advertising and pushing sales to higher margin vehicles. The demand does not exist in a vacuum

For manufacturers that didn't want to join the craze, it simply became a case of having to offer an SUV or substantially lose our on future sales.

I would also say that cheap gas has continued to drive this trend. Gas is not expensive enough to make people think twice about buying large vehicles with mediocre fuel economy.

I got 4x4 which is different than AWD but similar idea. Makes a huge difference in the snow or even dirt roads if a bit muddy. Not everyone lives where it's summer year round and where there's no real forest or place to drive that has sketchy roads.

Most SUVs now are basically cars but SUV shaped. One advantage is they do tend to have a bit more ground clearance. I've been to sketchy places when I had a sedan, I didn't let that stop me, but I did hit rocks with parts of the car that are not suppose to hit rocks.

 

[Brainonska511]

If you're mad about the environment impact because of ads pushing SUVs, I think you should totally celebrate the overall reduction from consumer cars thanks to EVs breaking well into the market and industry-wide reduced emissions due to aggressive govt mandating. This is why cars are all fitted with turbo instead of V6.

EVs are good, but they are not sufficient, and manufacturers are still catering to unnecessarily large vehicles, which is still bad (and heavier vehicles mean more tire particulate emissions).

I got 4x4 which is different than AWD but similar idea. Makes a huge difference in the snow or even dirt roads if a bit muddy. Not everyone lives where it's summer year round and where there's no real forest or place to drive that has sketchy roads.

Most SUVs now are basically cars but SUV shaped. One advantage is they do tend to have a bit more ground clearance. I've been to sketchy places when I had a sedan, I didn't let that stop me, but I did hit rocks with parts of the car that are not suppose to hit rocks.

Sure, there are some people who benefit from these features. I still maintain that for most buyers, these features are largely unnecessary. But I guess people have money to burn, like spending $50-$60k on a new vehicle.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I recall hearing that V6 Accords around that vintage having oil consumption issues tied to oil control ring problems.

Depends on the year, but yeah, if they have the cylinder deactivation system it gunks up and burns a ton of oil. Apparently if you disable the "eco" system, the issue 90% resolves.

IIRC Accords sold were 4-cylinders anyway, and the K25 was a pretty bulletproof motor.

 

[manly]

Did OP repost his own thread from two months ago?

rofl at car prices or everything prices.

How is the entire population supposed to endure the rampant price increases in grocery prices, cars, everything but wages? We spent half a grand in groceries, and it bought nothing special. I bought a mid-size SUV 2013 Hyundai Tucon mid-trim with 550 miles on it with $16.5K cash in 2015...

forums.anandtech.com

I currently drive the Hyundai Tucson 2013. I got it at one year old with 500 miles. It was basically pristine new with the new car smell.

I paid $16,500 cash for it.

I don't think you can do that today (adjusting for inflation) on a similarly trim Tucson that's a year old. Overall more expensive and Hyundai is more comfortable today in the industry than trying to 'break into the market' = thus more expensive now.

The pandemic fucked everything up supply-wise, so it'll be a few years before normality returns to the lightly used market. Nobody really knows how the BEV transition will develop over the next decade, so it's hard to say if the sky high prices are here to stay. IF Chinese autos break into the U.S. market, prices will certainly be affected.

Just like with housing, brand new cars are to the point where average families really can't afford them anymore. Well, unless they get a 9 year auto loan I guess.

 

[Brainonska511]

Just like with housing, brand new cars are to the point where average families really can't afford them anymore. Well, unless they get a 9 year auto loan I guess.

There are cars that they can buy, they just don't think, for whatever reason, that Elantras, Corollas, Camrys, or Sonatas (all vehicles with some or most trims' MSRP <$30k) are capable of carrying a median family of 1-2 kids).