my car is dead. [updated again: i have a new car!]

[StageLeft]

for the record, I would count personal experiences of friends and family higher than JD Powers or Consumer Reports.

Truly? That's surprising. I, having taken statistics, would always place the findings of thousands of respondents to a survey higher regarding car quality than my own experiences or those of a tiny pool of respondents (family and friends).

There are some domestics I'd consider, an the recommendation of a prizm by vi_edit is a good one, but regardless I'd place a cavalier and sunfire squarely at the bottom of the list just a touch above a wind powered car.

 

[Shelly21]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Don't listen to the domestic-hating morons like Skoorb. A newer domestic is just as reliable as a newer import. Just be sure to keep up on maintenance on anything you get. A Cavalier/Sunfire would be a great choice (if you can get over the nasty exteriors - eww). You can get one just a couple of years old for very little cash, since the general public is still brainwashed with the 80s/90s notion that import cars are far superior - they were then, but aren't anymore.

?? Does Cananda even have domestic cars?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

for the record, I would count personal experiences of friends and family higher than JD Powers or Consumer Reports.

Truly? That's surprising. I, having taken statistics, would always place the findings of thousands of respondents to a survey higher regarding car quality than my own experiences or those of a tiny pool of respondents (family and friends).

There are some domestics I'd consider, an the recommendation of a prizm by vi_edit is a good one, but regardless I'd place a cavalier and sunfire squarely at the bottom of the list just a touch above a wind powered car.

Those reports are biased, no matter if anyone proclaims otherwise. For example, poor gas mileage is a mark for JD Powers, hence the reason the H2 rated so poorly. I dont trust the American public to be particularly bright, as they haven't proven themselves yet

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: 1YellowPeril
There are a lot of small car choices out there--you don't have to get a Cavalier or Sunfire. Consumer Reports and the car magazines, FWIW, rated those two cars horribly. I drove a rental Cavalier (it was new) and vowed never to set foot behind its wheel again. Go with a Hyundai.

(I drive an Olds, so no, I'm not a domestic hater.)

for the record, I would count personal experiences of friends and family higher than JD Powers or Consumer Reports. I have had good luck with domestics. I have only been stranded by a vehicle i own once, and that was due to an overlook of routine maintenance on my part. A pulley froze up. I had heard some squeeling 2 weeks before, but had ignored them.

I agree with this. Consumer reports not a great indicator of reliability. EDIT: People tend to misreport problems with their cars when they are surveyed. If they hate the car or dealer, they may put down every single little problem that they've ever had. If they love the car, they won't report any problems. I hated my small Saturn because it was uncomfortable for me to drive. It was a good reliable car, but I didn't like it, so I made sure that everyone knew the problems that I had with it.

The company that I work for has all Japanese company cars. I have always owned domestic cars. I can't tell much difference between my wife's 2002 mid-sized Saturn L100 and the 2002 Honda Accord that we have as a company car. In fact, the Saturn is a little quieter on the highway. Both cars had about 20,000 miles when I drove them last. I have also driven the company's 2000 Accord with 110,000 miles, and it has all of the typical noise/problems of a higher mileage car. Not has much power as the newer one, warped rotors, the automatic transmission shifted like crap (waited until the last second and then "thunked" into gear). I don't see a big difference between the Japanese cars and the domestics.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

for the record, I would count personal experiences of friends and family higher than JD Powers or Consumer Reports.

Truly? That's surprising. I, having taken statistics, would always place the findings of thousands of respondents to a survey higher regarding car quality than my own experiences or those of a tiny pool of respondents (family and friends).

There are some domestics I'd consider, an the recommendation of a prizm by vi_edit is a good one, but regardless I'd place a cavalier and sunfire squarely at the bottom of the list just a touch above a wind powered car.

The Prism is a Corolla under the GM badge.

 

[Hammer]

go with a domestic.

 

[StageLeft]

Those reports are biased, no matter if anyone proclaims otherwise. For example, poor gas mileage is a mark for JD Powers, hence the reason the H2 rated so poorly. I dont trust the American public to be particularly bright, as they haven't proven themselves yet

Well you do have to look into it... I know that for CR they have the respondents say how many problems they've had and that is fairly telling...

The company that I work for has all Japanese company cars. I have always owned domestic cars. I can't tell much difference between my wife's 2002 mid-sized Saturn L100 and the 2002 Honda Accord that we have as a company car. In fact, the Saturn is a little quieter on the highway. Both cars had about 20,000 miles when I drove them last. I have also driven the company's 2000 Accord with 110,000 miles, and it has all of the typical noise/problems of a higher mileage car. Not has much power as the newer one, warped rotors, the automatic transmission shifted like crap (waited until the last second and then "thunked" into gear). I don't see a big difference between the Japanese cars and the domestics.

Isn't company car like a rental car? I bet the thing's been beaten on!

 

[eakers]

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: DougK62
Don't listen to the domestic-hating morons like Skoorb. A newer domestic is just as reliable as a newer import. Just be sure to keep up on maintenance on anything you get. A Cavalier/Sunfire would be a great choice (if you can get over the nasty exteriors - eww). You can get one just a couple of years old for very little cash, since the general public is still brainwashed with the 80s/90s notion that import cars are far superior - they were then, but aren't anymore.

?? Does Cananda even have domestic cars?

are you crazy?

we have a huge auto industry.

[toyotas are actually made in my home town but for some reason they are still priced as imports ]

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Those reports are biased, no matter if anyone proclaims otherwise. For example, poor gas mileage is a mark for JD Powers, hence the reason the H2 rated so poorly. I dont trust the American public to be particularly bright, as they haven't proven themselves yet

Well you do have to look into it... I know that for CR they have the respondents say how many problems they've had and that is fairly telling...

but the problems they have are not typically ones i care about. If the dash has a rattle, take that piece off and put some foam tape on it, if a latch breaks, put a new one on. I only care if the vehicle will be reliable for transportation. I dont mind if the AC quits working, i wouldnt even notice since I dont use it. The only things I really care about are transmission and severe internal engine issues(think BMW - Nikasil). Anything else i can fix in little time.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

The company that I work for has all Japanese company cars. I have always owned domestic cars. I can't tell much difference between my wife's 2002 mid-sized Saturn L100 and the 2002 Honda Accord that we have as a company car. In fact, the Saturn is a little quieter on the highway. Both cars had about 20,000 miles when I drove them last. I have also driven the company's 2000 Accord with 110,000 miles, and it has all of the typical noise/problems of a higher mileage car. Not has much power as the newer one, warped rotors, the automatic transmission shifted like crap (waited until the last second and then "thunked" into gear). I don't see a big difference between the Japanese cars and the domestics.

Isn't company car like a rental car? I bet the thing's been beaten on!

And probably more poorly maintained than a rental car.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: DougK62
Don't listen to the domestic-hating morons like Skoorb. A newer domestic is just as reliable as a newer import. Just be sure to keep up on maintenance on anything you get. A Cavalier/Sunfire would be a great choice (if you can get over the nasty exteriors - eww). You can get one just a couple of years old for very little cash, since the general public is still brainwashed with the 80s/90s notion that import cars are far superior - they were then, but aren't anymore.

?? Does Cananda even have domestic cars?

are you crazy?

we have a huge auto industry.

[toyotas are actually made in my home town but for some reason they are still priced as imports ]

Cambridge, ON?

 

[eakers]

Originally posted by: radioouman

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: DougK62
Don't listen to the domestic-hating morons like Skoorb. A newer domestic is just as reliable as a newer import. Just be sure to keep up on maintenance on anything you get. A Cavalier/Sunfire would be a great choice (if you can get over the nasty exteriors - eww). You can get one just a couple of years old for very little cash, since the general public is still brainwashed with the 80s/90s notion that import cars are far superior - they were then, but aren't anymore.

?? Does Cananda even have domestic cars?

are you crazy?

we have a huge auto industry.

[toyotas are actually made in my home town but for some reason they are still priced as imports ]

Cambridge, ON?

yup.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Skoorb

The company that I work for has all Japanese company cars. I have always owned domestic cars. I can't tell much difference between my wife's 2002 mid-sized Saturn L100 and the 2002 Honda Accord that we have as a company car. In fact, the Saturn is a little quieter on the highway. Both cars had about 20,000 miles when I drove them last. I have also driven the company's 2000 Accord with 110,000 miles, and it has all of the typical noise/problems of a higher mileage car. Not has much power as the newer one, warped rotors, the automatic transmission shifted like crap (waited until the last second and then "thunked" into gear). I don't see a big difference between the Japanese cars and the domestics.

Isn't company car like a rental car? I bet the thing's been beaten on!

And probably more poorly maintained than a rental car.

The company maintained the cars and took them to a local dealer for maintance. They may have been driven hard, but they were well maintained.

 

[vi edit]

To the domestic haters - go take a look at the TCO's of a '00 Corolla, '00 Cavalier, '00 Prism, and '00 Civic @ Edmunds.

In terms of price from cheapest to most expensive:

1. Prism LSI ($6,304)
2. Cavalier LS ($6,487)
3. Corolla LE ($8,887)
4. Civic LX ($10,364)

Total depreciation after 5 years in lowest amount to highest amount:
1. Prizm ($3,706)
2. Cavalier ($3,944)
3. Corolla ($4,191)
4. Civic ($4,331)

Cost of maintenance in 5 years from lowest to highest:
1. Cavalier ($3,340)
2. Prizm ($4,008)
3. Civic ($4,409)
4. Corolla ($4,641)

Cost of repairs in 5 years:
1. Cavalier ($1,696)
2. Prizm ($1,696)
3. Corolla ($1,726)
4. Civic ($1,817)

Considering you are saving anywhere from $2000-$4,000 up front on the Cavalier, you are already ahead. Now look at what those numbers show.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: radioouman

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: DougK62
Don't listen to the domestic-hating morons like Skoorb. A newer domestic is just as reliable as a newer import. Just be sure to keep up on maintenance on anything you get. A Cavalier/Sunfire would be a great choice (if you can get over the nasty exteriors - eww). You can get one just a couple of years old for very little cash, since the general public is still brainwashed with the 80s/90s notion that import cars are far superior - they were then, but aren't anymore.

?? Does Cananda even have domestic cars?

are you crazy?

we have a huge auto industry.

[toyotas are actually made in my home town but for some reason they are still priced as imports ]

Cambridge, ON?

yup.

I was up there recently to talk with some engineers about the Lexus RX330. We designed some parts for that vehicle.

 

[Budmantom]

For the most part domestics and imports are close, as a general rule a domestic will break more often but the parts will be cheaper and if an import breaks the parts will cost you more. It's a matter of how much you value your time.

Both should make it to 100k with little problem, the intresting part is how they run after the 1st 100k and how much they are worth, in this area the import wins hands down.

We have a 97 civic ex with 100k+ and a 96mustang gt with less than 60k, I love them both but when it's time to take a road trip we end up taking the civic (most of the time) because it's so reliable and gas savings.

Just my .02

Tom

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

eakers, is it cold up there in Ontario? As battery's get cold they loss efficiency.

Have your battery charged and tested..If it is near the end of it's warranty replace it!

Your car is 13 years old. If the batt/cables are original replace them!

Cables may look good but have oxidation or corrosion internally at the lug ends.
Alternator output meets the resistance of battery voltage and will stop charging the battery. Bad cables and/or poor {as in not clean and tight} connections add to this resistance. This "tricks" the alternator into thinking the battery is fully charged. When in reality it is maybe only 75% there. This condition shortens battery life!!

Furthermore, this resistance also causes a voltage drop at cranking that will reduce the life of your starter, this is a fact...Auto-Electric shop love poor maintenance of this type, because it causes problem$ in all areas of automotive electrical systems.

If the ground cable does not go directly to the engine block, add one that does.

There will be a quiz on this later........When old man winter really hits.........:sun:

If you read this post Quixfire....Do you agree with the above.........



EDIT: MAY GOOD GOD ALLMIGHTY!!! As I slowly typed out my post, this thread turn into a xxxx throwing contest....GET A GRIP...I'LL STFU!!!!

EDIT to edit: Sorry about that.......When you get your next "new used" car.

The above still applies....

 

[AMCRambler]

IMO don't get an Echo. It may be a Toyota but man is it an ugly one! Only 108 horspower too. It may be peppy with one person in the car, but add any more weight than that and it'll be a dog(108 horsepower). I think the Cavalier would be a good car. Base price is the same as an Echo(10,700), and they've got 140hp, not bad for a little car. As long as it's new any breakdowns should be covered by warranty(I say should, better make sure with the dealer) and you just bring it in and they fix it. They may also do that thing where they give you a car to drive while they fix yours. But my position is if money is an issue, better to buy a new domestic if you can afford it rather than a used import. Imports are more reliable but when they break they tend to be more expensive to fix.

 

[caitlion]

i was too lazy to read all the posts above, but i got about halfway through. i guess if you have to have a newer car i would say a hyundai.. i dont know how expensive they are in canada, but in the us you can usually find relatively cheap ones... even used 2003's would probably be affordable. i mean, a brand new accent is like $9,000 something. i think it also helps if you drive manual? anyway, i got a honda because they are supposed to be very reliable, theyre not too expensive (especially when you consider what other people have been saying about less repairs, also they get good gas mileage so youre paying less for that), and they last really really long. i know a few people who have accords that have more than 300,000 miles and theyre still running fine. anyway, sorry this is getting so long, just my thoughts

(oh and if you dont have good credit, would your parents be able to put it in their name? it makes the payments/interest a lot lower)

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
To the domestic haters - go take a look at the TCO's of a '00 Corolla, '00 Cavalier, '00 Prism, and '00 Civic @ Edmunds.

In terms of price from cheapest to most expensive:

1. Prism LSI ($6,304)
2. Cavalier LS ($6,487)
3. Corolla LE ($8,887)
4. Civic LX ($10,364)

Total depreciation after 5 years in lowest amount to highest amount:
1. Prizm ($3,706)
2. Cavalier ($3,944)
3. Corolla ($4,191)
4. Civic ($4,331)

Cost of maintenance in 5 years from lowest to highest:
1. Cavalier ($3,340)
2. Prizm ($4,008)
3. Civic ($4,409)
4. Corolla ($4,641)

Cost of repairs in 5 years:
1. Cavalier ($1,696)
2. Prizm ($1,696)
3. Corolla ($1,726)
4. Civic ($1,817)

Considering you are saving anywhere from $2000-$4,000 up front on the Cavalier, you are already ahead. Now look at what those numbers show.

Thing is, cost of maintenance is based on what the owner's manual says. I'd be willing to bet real-life experience will pretty much equal those costs out (esp. if you stay away from dealerships for regular maintenance.) Cost of repairs difference is negligible, imo.

 

[Quixfire]

I have read the thread, but eakers didn't ask for advise on how to fix her car. She asked for advice on what would be a good used car. I provided the only information I feel I am qualified to offer, which was on the Ford Focus.

Galvanizedyankee; as for your statement of the effectiveness of batteries during cold weather, you my friend are correct.

Eakers; if you are looking to replace the car then please post your price range and let the hounds of good deals loose. Plus you can PM me on Ford questions anytime.

 

[Shelly21]

lol,

I remember when I drove thru Kentucky, I think Owensboro? Seems like everyone there drives a Corvette becuase they were built there.

 

[vi edit]

Thing is, cost of maintenance is based on what the owner's manual says. I'd be willing to bet real-life experience will pretty much equal those costs out (esp. if you stay away from dealerships for regular maintenance.) Cost of repairs difference is negligible, imo.

It's all a wash really. One thing that I didn't list was insurance costs. On a yearly rate, the civics and corolla were only like $100 more over 5 years than the Cavalier...which I think is absolutely BS. Hell, in some parts of the country, a Civic is going to have $100 more A MONTH premiums than the cavalier.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Shelly21
lol,

I remember when I drove thru Kentucky, I think Owensboro? Seems like everyone there drives a Corvette becuase they were built there.

Close...they're built in Bowling Green, KY...a bit east of Owensboro.

 

[BUTCH1]

Quote"Take a look at the Ford Escort and Escort ZX2. These cars get very high marks for reliability from the brainwashing magazines such as Consumer Reports and J.D. Power, yet they are domestic and very inexpensive. My wife had a 1999, and it was an excellent car. She had no problems whatsoever with it."

I've got a 94 Escort with 131K on it and it runs perfect. Just good, basic maint. and these cars
will last. Engine and tranny built by Mitsubsihi, mazda protege platform and they are cheap to
buy and drive and noone steal's 'em. One thing though, they are Kinda slow...