My build thread, help much appreciated!

[Jim Raynor]

Dear forum members,

After reading alot of reviews on the main page of this site and some general browsing around I decided to make a topic here for a new build I've been planning to do. This site seems really professional so kudo's for all the hard work and imput. So let's start with the template.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

I'm a multitasker and a gamer. What does the first thing mean? Well the following is not uncommon for me: MSN, Teamspeak, Winamp, Firefox 20 tabs, a game alt-tabbed, some documents with work.
I also like to play games, all games, I think that's the most important factor here.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

The budget is around 1k euro's. When asked I'll post the approximate prices of the products that will be recommended so you guys can get an idea of the budget. That's because it seems most of the visitors here are Americans. The budget may be stretched 20% ofcourse but I rather stay around the 1000.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

Europe, so no new-egg D:.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

I'm quite new to this pc building so I have no preference. Quality and warranty is where brands excell.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

I have keyboard, mouse, headset, old screen etc. I also have a spare dvd drive but those things won't break the bank anyway.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

Yes I did, I've read ALOT in my spare time so I must have some basic knowledge.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Overclocking within safe margins is an option but as I said I'm new to this.

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.

I don't have a screen and that will be bought later, it will be a seperate decision after the rig is bought and put together. So the budget excludes the screen. It will probably be 1920 x 1200.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Within 1/2 months, I'm a careful buyer so I rationalyse every decision before buying. Time is not an issue.

---

I've established a few shortlists but choices are ofcourse not limited to those. I'll start with the shortlists being general guidelines.

CASE
HAF 922
CM 690 II ADV
Lancool PC-K62

I tend to favor the HAF here.

PSU
Haven't done much research here but:
Antec TP 650/550
Any Corsair
I favor modular PSU but does it really matter?

PROCESSOR
Socket 1156 -> i5 750 or i7 860
Socket 1366 -> might be too expensive but i7 930
Socket AM3 -> 955 or 1050 (1090 might be too expensive)

I read about the Foxconn sockets and I'm quite afraid of that. I'm aware of the bandwith limitations of socket 1156 but crossfire doesn't seem to be an option within this budget. I tend to favor buying 1 card and upgrading 1 card instead of buying 1 card and upgrading with the same one in CF. I tend to favor the i5 or i7 860 here but as I said I dislike the messages about the Foxconn sockets.

MOTHERBOARD
Haven't done much research here. But:
Asus P7P55D (socket 1156)
GigabyteP55M-UD2 (same)

I read that Asus is a good manufacturer with quality products. USB 3 and Sata 6 seem to be unnecessary at this moment so it's not a factor to consider when choosing a mobo. Unless ofcourse you guys think it's important to buy one with those features.

RAM
OCZ Platinum Low Voltage OCZ3P1333LV4GK 4 gigs

HDD
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ, 1TB

GRAPHICS
HD 5870 VAPOR-X or any 5850

MISC
Cooler Master Megaflow Red 200MM for the side fanslot of the HAF
Scythe Mugen processor cooler

For reference, this setup is around 1000 euro's.

Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ
Cooler Master HAF 922
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B
Cooler Master Megaflow Red 200MM
Intel Core i5 750
Antec TruePower TP-650
OCZ Platinum Low Voltage OCZ3P1333LV4GK1
Asus P7P55D
Sapphire Vapor-X HD5870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E

I would really appreciate any thoughts about this pc build.
Thanks in advance!

Jim Raynor.

 

[mfenn]

I would not buy OCZ DDR3. To many DOA's. Pretty much any other 1.5V RAM would be fine (I'm partial to G.Skill). Everything else seems fine to me. I wouldn't worry about the socket issue, as it only matters when you start throwing tons of voltage at the CPU.

 

[Jim Raynor]

Thanks for your reply. There aren't alot of stores selling G.Skill products here so I'll probably take the Kingston value, Corsair, or any GeiL set.
About the socket issue. I've read that users with mild OC's also had problems with long usage times (like 1000 hours mild OC means problems). So I'm not completely confident about that socket. I'm a little afraid to see my equipment fail on me with additional expenses as a result.

 

[mbevolution]

i agree with mfenn, ocz rams are hit or miss so most likely one of your dual channel sticks arrives dead. other companies seem to have better quality controls.

i would choose an intel chip for your purpose as with amd chips, you'll lose about 20fps in a lot of games, the gains are in rendering and heavy multitasking but those are not your primary focuses.

chip wise, i think i7 860 would be very suitable for your tasks, if you shop around places you should be able to pull together an i7 system with 5870 for around 1000 euros.

the difference between 1156 and 1366 lies primarily in triple channel vs dual channel, you will not notice the difference unless you benchmark.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Seasonic X 650 or 750 Gold

 

[Jim Raynor]

i agree with mfenn, ocz rams are hit or miss so most likely one of your dual channel sticks arrives dead. other companies seem to have better quality controls.

i would choose an intel chip for your purpose as with amd chips, you'll lose about 20fps in a lot of games, the gains are in rendering and heavy multitasking but those are not your primary focuses.

chip wise, i think i7 860 would be very suitable for your tasks, if you shop around places you should be able to pull together an i7 system with 5870 for around 1000 euros.

the difference between 1156 and 1366 lies primarily in triple channel vs dual channel, you will not notice the difference unless you benchmark.

Thanks for the informative post. Most people seem to go with the i5 though. The price difference is i5 175€ vs. i7 860 241€ vs. the 137€ phenom 955. If I want to stay around the 1000 with the 860 alot of things have to be reduced in cost I think. With full bells and whistles (3rd party processor cooler, that fan, a nice PSU) it will certainly hit 1100 - 1200 maybe 1300. Socket 1366 seems a little expensive to me (mobo!) and the 860 seems to perform well in relation to the 1366 i7's so the choice of a socket seems made.

Seasonic X 650 or 750 Gold

A x-750 will hit 150 euro's
A x-650 132 euro's
A Seasonic M12D-850 will hit 133 euro's
An Antec TP-650 is 80 euro's
Corsair HX750, HX850, TX650, HX650, TX750 are resp. 130, 145, 85, 105 and 103 euro's.

Seasonic is the pure quality way to go right?
As with the MOBO, I found the ASUS in the OP (around 110 euro's) and MSI P55-GD65 (around 130). Ram is expensive here and I pay 100~110 euro's for the cheapest 4 gig dual channel set with any brand. I couldn't find the highly recommended G.Skill (Ripjaws) ram here so an other brand will have to do.

 

[Meghan54]

I'd even question buying a socket 1156 these days. It's already a dead end socket and scheduled to be replaced early next year, so you'll have almost no upgrade path.

 

[Jim Raynor]

I'd even question buying a socket 1156 these days. It's already a dead end socket and scheduled to be replaced early next year, so you'll have almost no upgrade path.

What do you suggest then? Dropping Intel and going for AMD? 6 core 4 core? Or trying to fit in the more expensive 1366 socket? Mbevolution recommended the Intel socket.

After some calculating, choosing the 870 will certainly cost more than 1000. Some money can be saved by picking the 5850 instead of an 5870 but I think that i5 + 5870 beats the i7 + 5850 for my purposes.

 

[mfenn]

What do you suggest then? Dropping Intel and going for AMD? 6 core 4 core? Or trying to fit in the more expensive 1366 socket? Mbevolution recommended the Intel socket.

After some calculating, choosing the 870 will certainly cost more than 1000. Some money can be saved by picking the 5850 instead of an 5870 but I think that i5 + 5870 beats the i7 + 5850 for my purposes.

Both Intel sockets are dead these days. You have to ask yourself, "How many times have I wanted to upgrade just the CPU?" I'm willing to bet that that answer is a low number. In which case, who cares if the socket is EOL?

 

[Jim Raynor]

I was thinking the same thing. I knew that both sockets are EOL though but thanks for reminding me. Suddenly the 860 becomes more and more interesting.
The bandwith "limitations" don't matter to me just as the USB 3 and Sata 6. I don't believe in those right now, they also are very expensive on 1156. CF doesn't seem interesting either in this budget range.
MFenn and others, whats your opinion about mobo's, is the one chosen in the OP sufficient? Quality and user friendlyness are important factors here. As I said I also found the MSI P55-GD65.
I also read positive things in similar topics about the WD black 640 gigs. Is it different (better) from the F3 since I won't need 1 TB of space (I have external HDD for data).
I also found G.Skill in a few local webshops, prices are:
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ is 110 euro's
http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=88
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL is around 130 euro's
http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=222
Basic 4 gig ram sets from random brands (corsair, ocz, kingston etc.) are around 100 euro's.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mfenn]

I was thinking the same thing. I knew that both sockets are EOL though but thanks for reminding me. Suddenly the 860 becomes more and more interesting.
The bandwith "limitations" don't matter to me just as the USB 3 and Sata 6. I don't believe in those right now, they also are very expensive on 1156. CF doesn't seem interesting either in this budget range.
MFenn and others, whats your opinion about mobo's, is the one chosen in the OP sufficient? Quality and user friendlyness are important factors here. As I said I also found the MSI P55-GD65.
I also read positive things in similar topics about the WD black 640 gigs. Is it different (better) from the F3 since I won't need 1 TB of space (I have external HDD for data).
I also found G.Skill in a few local webshops, prices are:
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ is 110 euro's
http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=88
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL is around 130 euro's
http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=222
Basic 4 gig ram sets from random brands (corsair, ocz, kingston etc.) are around 100 euro's.

Thanks in advance.

I would go with the ASUS simply because it is cheaper. Basic P55 boards from the Big 3 (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI) are going to be very similar. Can you post a link to a e-tailer that you like? The boards you picked out are fine, but seem to be on the expensive side. I think USB 3.0 is definitely worth it. Here in the US, you can get the Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 for cheaper than either of the other boards you mentioned, and it has USB 3.0 support without SATA 6Gb/s support. Here in GH, we've helped people find things at e-tailers ranging from Portuguese to Polish to Japanese. The model numbers are (generally) the same as they are in the US, so post up that link!

WD Blacks and Samsung F3s are very similar in terms of performance. I generally recommend the F3 because it is cheaper.

With that much of a price differential between the normal G.Skill and the Ripjaws, I would just get the normal one.

 

[Jim Raynor]

That Gigabyte board you post is sold for like 110 euro's. If you want to look up prices http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/ is a good way to go. Just insert the model number in the box there. Look for the shops with 4 or more stars and a green truck which means the product is on stock. The MSI board I posted MSI P55-GD65 goes for 130 as you can find on that website. A friend recommended that because he read it clocks well. I really appreciate your input MFenn, asking for an e-tailer website.
Let me give you this link too: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/800/socket-1156-moederborden.html
It gives all the 1156 mobo's and at the right you can set filters. If you have questions about the filters please ask but I think they guide themselves.
In the meantime I'll try to do some calculations (after I finish my preparations for the final exams :ninja which should give you some indication where we are now regarding the budget.

 

[mfenn]

That Gigabyte board you post is sold for like 110 euro's. If you want to look up prices http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/ is a good way to go. Just insert the model number in the box there. Look for the shops with 4 or more stars and a green truck which means the product is on stock. The MSI board I posted MSI P55-GD65 goes for 130 as you can find on that website. A friend recommended that because he read it clocks well. I really appreciate your input MFenn, asking for an e-tailer website.
Let me give you this link too: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/800/socket-1156-moederborden.html
It gives all the 1156 mobo's and at the right you can set filters. If you have questions about the filters please ask but I think they guide themselves.
In the meantime I'll try to do some calculations (after I finish my preparations for the final exams :ninja which should give you some indication where we are now regarding the budget.

Alright, so here's what I would recommend for a few scenarios:
Inexpensive (but good quality): Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 (99 euro) or MSI P55M-GD41 (92 euro).
USB 3.0 support: GA-P55-USB3 (114 euro)
USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s: GA-P55A-UD3 (127 euro) ASUS P7P55D-E (148 euro)

 

[Jim Raynor]

The 2nd option seems nice but I can't find alot of reviews on it. Only Newegg has some user reviews: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128425
I also find this: http://vr-zone.com/articles/gigabyte-p55a-boards-usb3-sata3-issues-analysis/8158.html?doc=8158 but it seems to be irrelevant.

Edit: i7 860, GA-P55-USB3, the cheapest G.Skill set, 5870, HAF, Samsung F3 and any 150 euro quality PSU wil go for 1150 including shipping and handling. The extra fan and the CPU-cooler are excluded here because for non OC'ing the stock cooler will do.

 

[mfenn]

The 2nd option seems nice but I can't find alot of reviews on it. Only Newegg has some user reviews: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128425
I also find this: http://vr-zone.com/articles/gigabyte-p55a-boards-usb3-sata3-issues-analysis/8158.html?doc=8158 but it seems to be irrelevant.

Edit: i7 860, GA-P55-USB3, the cheapest G.Skill set, 5870, HAF, Samsung F3 and any 150 euro quality PSU wil go for 1150 including shipping and handling. The extra fan and the CPU-cooler are excluded here because for non OC'ing the stock cooler will do.

The GA-P55-USB3 is a solid board in my opinion. It's basically a GA-P55A-UD3 without the SATA 6Gb/s chip.

You can drop the price a bit by going with the 500GB F3 and the TX650. In fact, I would say that the TX650 is all the power supply you will need.

 

[Jim Raynor]

That saves alot because the TX650 isn't that expensive.
The 500GB F3 isn't worth it IMO. Check the price differences.
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/...4fpHiMllrhTFmp40K5qSPdcan3_txjatUy_e8hxoBp2wE

So:

Intel i7 860 PROCESSOR
Scythe Mugen 2 Reb. B COOLER
Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 MOBO
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ 4GB RAM CAS 9 DDR3-1600
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HDD
HD 5870 Vapor-X GRAPHICS
Corsair TX650 PSU
Cooler Master Megaflow Red 200MM ADDITIONAL FAN
All that in a HAF 922 CASE!

All for around 1100

Dropping the i7 for the i5 750 and the 5870 for 5850 will make it like 950.

 

[mfenn]

That saves alot because the TX650 isn't that expensive.
The 500GB F3 isn't worth it IMO. Check the price differences.
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/...4fpHiMllrhTFmp40K5qSPdcan3_txjatUy_e8hxoBp2wE

So:

Intel i7 860 PROCESSOR
Scythe Mugen 2 Reb. B COOLER
Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 MOBO
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ 4GB RAM CAS 9 DDR3-1600
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HDD
HD 5870 Vapor-X GRAPHICS
Corsair TX650 PSU
Cooler Master Megaflow Red 200MM ADDITIONAL FAN
All that in a HAF 922 CASE!

All for around 1100

Dropping the i7 for the i5 750 and the 5870 for 5850 will make it like 950.

Yeah the 1TB is a much better deal.

Either of your other substitutions would also be fine. It really just comes down to how much you are comfortable paying.

 

[Jim Raynor]

The RAM isn't in this list: http://www.gigabyte.us/FileList/MemorySupport/mb_memory_ga-p55-usb3.pdf

Is that a problem?

 

[Jim Raynor]

I found out one more thing. The primary PCI slot running at x16 for the graphics card will run at x8 when USB3 is enabled. So maybe this MOBO isn't such a good idea.

 

[mfenn]

The RAM isn't in this list: http://www.gigabyte.us/FileList/MemorySupport/mb_memory_ga-p55-usb3.pdf

Is that a problem?

Not sure what you're on about. The RAM kit is listed in the 8th row on page 2.

I found out one more thing. The primary PCI slot running at x16 for the graphics card will run at x8 when USB3 is enabled. So maybe this MOBO isn't such a good idea.

x8 vs. x16 doesn't matter in the slightest. The difference is well within the margin of error of any benchmark. You really only see a decrease when you go down to x4.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.htm

FWIW, all P55 boards have this problem because it's a limitation of the number of PCIe lanes coming off of the Socket 1156 chips. It's just that some manufacturers either (a) don't mention it, or (b) put in a PCIe bridge chip that makes lane count appear to be correct but actually does nothing (because the bottleneck is at the CPU) and costs you money (why do you think the ASUS is so much more expensive?).

 

[Jim Raynor]

In relation with the ram, I thought I ctrl-f'd it well, ah my bad sorry for that.

The bandwith problems make sense but appear to be unimportant.
The Asus P7P55D isn't that much more expensive though but lacks USB3 support. But more advanced ASUS boards are much more expensive indeed!

I'm thinking about the i5 & 5850 rig because it seems to be much more bang for the buck keeping some money in my pocket for future upgrades. Besides that, I'm a first-time builder so maybe it's a good thing to not exaggerate with the specs.

 

[mfenn]

In relation with the ram, I thought I ctrl-f'd it well, ah my bad sorry for that.

The bandwith problems make sense but appear to be unimportant.
The Asus P7P55D isn't that much more expensive though but lacks USB3 support.

I'm thinking about the i5 & 5850 rig because it seems to be much more bang for the buck keeping some money in my pocket for future upgrades. Besides that, I'm a first-time builder so maybe it's a good thing to not exaggerate with the specs.

I was talking about the P7P55D-E. Anyway, you can't really go wrong with either an i5 750 + 5850 or an i7 850 + 5870. I will say that the install process is exactly the same, so let your wallet be your guide. :awe:

 

[Jim Raynor]

You mention the P7P55D-E because it supports USB 3 right?

 

[mfenn]

You mention the P7P55D-E because it supports USB 3 right?

Yes and SATA 6Gb/s.

 

[Jim Raynor]

So if I understand you correctly the P7P55D (around the same price) has the exact same PCI-e lane bandwith limitations as the Gigabyte?