My Brother-In-Law is Born Again

[Total Refected Power]

Went to a family function this weekend and my brother-in-law proclaimed he is "Born Again". He was Catholic but started to listen to talk radio and he said the preachers just made perfect sense. I politely listened to several of his beliefs or criticisms of today's world:

1. The Earth is ONLY 6000 yrs old. Don't let science fool you.

2. Genesis creation is 100% fact.

3. Evolution is a lie created by Satan.

4. Noah's Ark is REAL!

5. Sending kids to public school is a sin (Homeschooling is the only way).

At this point, in the interest of family harmony (my wife's), I got up and got a burger.

I don't have significant experience with fundamentalists and was curious if these are common viewpoints or is he just an outlier?

 

[Buddhist]

:Q

godspeed to you in rectifying this situation!

btw i could use some total refected power right now... feeling tired and hungry! no sleep for this one.

-M.T.O

 

[Pastore]

I just hope that you don't have a different feeling about this person because he has different beliefs than you...

 

[Total Refected Power]

I just hope that you don't have a different feeling about this person because he has different beliefs than you...

I really just see him a few times a year and he is an OK guy. I am not sure what effect his conversion will have on his core family though.

 

[Mikal]

I feel for ya!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Bro-in-law=moron, don't even get into discussion with him, either that or pretend you've been born again and fvck with his head @ family functions. (of course that's just my opinion, I have family members I haven't spoken to in yearsthey probobaly don't want to talk to me either)

What's his IQ?

 

[Pastore]

Pliable, you are the most ignorant man on the face of the fvcking planet... Am I a moron because I have different beliefs than you? Jackass

What was Einsteins IQ? Thats what I thought, before he died, he also admitted that there was a God, and Einstein was one of Evolutions bigger supporters during his life on earth...

 

[Pliablemoose]

Guilty as charged

Didn't mean to step on a belief system, by the way beast1234, what you just did was internalize a comment intended for another, it indicates you've got a problem :Q

 

[Kosugi]

My Brother-In-Law is Born Again



Hmm, I bet his mother is sore. Imagine how hard it was for her when he only weighed 6+ pounds!

 

[StormRider]

Beast124 said:
<<What was Einsteins IQ? Thats what I thought, before he died, he also admitted that there was a God, and Einstein was one of Evolutions bigger supporters during his life on earth...>>

I don't think believing in God and Evolution are mutually exclusive. Lots of scientists believe in God but they also believe in the Big Bang and Evolution.

TRP said:
<<I don't have significant experience with fundamentalists and was curious if these are common viewpoints or is he just an outlier?>>

When I was an undergraduate, I used to go listen to born-again preachers who gathered near Hornbake Library and my impression is that most fundamentalists take a very strict literal interpretation of the Bible.

Incidently, this was always a sticky situation with me when I was growing up and searching for God (which I am still searching). If I ever do convert to some religion, how would I handle my parents' reaction (also as a kid and even now, I am not comfortable with the idea that my parents might not share the same beliefs -- after all how can it be heaven for me if my parents aren't there?)

 

[rahvin]

<<Thats what I thought, before he died, he also admitted that there was a God, and Einstein was one of Evolutions bigger supporters during his life on earth...>>

Speak not of that which you don't have a clue.

 

[MazrimTaim]

Your brother-in-law represents all that is troubling many Christian churces these days. I am a born-again Christian, I believe in Evolution and Creationism, I love popular music and movies, enjoy wine and Fosters beer (in moderation), dress as stylishly as I can (Kenneth Cole etc. off the Dillards sale racks) and completely dig the internet (especially the newsgroups).

My point is too many people get turned away from Christ because of people like your brother-in-law and the churches they go to that take &quot;their&quot; literal interpretation of the Bible and ignore evidence from science that &quot;they&quot; belive threatens their faith. As an example, as a Clinical Psychologist I was shocked to learn that so many Christian churches believe that those with emotional disorders need only to turn to God to be healed. Don't get me wrong, God can do whatever He wants with whom ever He chooses. My future mother-in-law is dieing of AML right now and if He wants to heal her, He will. Period. However, God generally chooses, for His own reasons, to leave many issue up to his followers to solve. So imagine my surprise when I was confronted with the medieval beliefs that people with Major Depression, Social Anxiety, PTSD, etc. should just pray because emotional issues = spiritual issues. All human beings are spiritual, so everything we do has a spiritual component. However, when my spiritual tooth aches I get it drilled by a dentist and pray to God to help me deal with the hassle of it; I don't just ask him to &quot;take it from me&quot;.

My belabored point in all this is don't allow the few &quot;stereotypical&quot; Bible pushers to get between you and Christ. Religion is not the answer - relationship is. Get to know Christ and let the rest of the world ponder the details. Christ is cool and so is being Christian.

 

[classy]

He's happy and zealous. We all go through that stage. Thats because there is a change in his heart. But he's made the right choice. Jesus will help him get through his growth. Praise God another one will see and live in the eternal kingdom.

 

[kami]

sigh...i feel sorry for your brother in law.

 

[vi edit]

One of these &quot;born again&quot; yahoos tried telling visgf that &quot;he was suprised that she was as intelligent as she was even though she wasn't a 'believer of Jesus'&quot;.

Ummmm....oooooookay.

 

[Antisocial Virge]

A quote from a webpage on Einsteins views:



<< Einstein did once comment that &quot;God does not play dice [with the universe].&quot; This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the Christian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's refusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory. Furthermore, Einstein's religious background was Jewish rather than Christian. >>



Link

Bunch of others.

 

[Isla]

My condolences, TRP.

Seriously, I am a believer myself but I am married to a family who has had similar whacked out ideas over the years... My MIL influenced the Mister to burn all his Tolkien books (a gift from his dad!) because she felt they were a demonic influence. Heh, she's the one who thinks Barry Manilow is under the influence of the devil because &quot;I Write the Songs&quot; is taking credit for creativity instead of giving all the credit to God. And of course, &quot;Catholicism is a modern day cult&quot; according to these people.... oooooookaaaaaaayyyyy.... Oh wait, my SIL said, &quot;Well, I guess SOME Catholics might go to heaven&quot;.... as you can see, this is a rather sore subject for me. The Mister is, understandably, an agnostic now. When you are raised by crazy people, it's hard to know what is sound and what is lunatic raving.

After a while, you'll automatically walk away whenever the subject of religion comes up because you don't want to do like me and laugh when you think they are making a joke but are really serious...

MazrimTaim Ah, I am in the same boat as you. I could consider myself a born-again Christian because I *did* have a rebirth of faith some years back, but I also had to deal with &quot;Psychology is evil!&quot; from my in-laws when I was in college working on my BA. Heck, if anything I think my faith is STRONGER because I don't fear anything else taking its place.

 

[WordSmith2000]

Kudos to you! You respectfully listened to his beliefs. But you shortchanged him when you assumed that sharing your beliefs would have started an argument. Some, but not all, &quot;Born-Agains&quot; are close-minded to other opinions.

OTOH, a wise person once said: &quot;Most persons who are willing to share their religious beliefs with strangers are not as willing to listen to strangers do the same.&quot;

 

[Kanly]

My impression of Born-Agains was shaped by an incident that happened when I was around 12 or so.

We went to some family dinner at my aunt's house (father's sister), they are all born again.

Somehow, race came up as an issue.

My aunt proclaims to the whole table, something like &quot;Blacks are an evil race. God told Cain after he killed Able 'I will curse you and your descendants and place my mark upon you for all generations.' Their blackness is the mark of God.&quot;

(Note: This is how I remember it. Don't feel like checking the Bible for the quote right now).


I was like, ummm yeah, ok. Very interesting interpretation of Bible there.

They used to always send my brother and I wierd prayer books and young-teen born-again books, like they were trying to convert us from Roman Catholicism. (As opposed to my other aunt who gave my brother and I The Hobbit and The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant around the same time)

During the presidential campaign, she would also send out these crazy emails saying basically that Bill Bradley and Gore were the devil incarnate and Bush had been chosen by God to lead us into a new era -- really &quot;interesting&quot; stuff.

Oh, and another time when my paternal grandmother died, we were at the hospital and my cousin was deeply afraid that our grandmother wasn't going to go to heaven because the Bible said you had to go to mass every Monday, or first Monday of the months or something like that, and our grandmother hadn't done it.

I still think that for the most part (the whole black thing is a little troubling) my aunt and her family are good people who just have a different religious beliefs.

 

[CPBrownson]

TRP: For the first four points your brother-in-law mentioned, ask him to prove these statements WITHOUT reverting to the Bible as his only proof. Many Christians like to claim things to be fact because the Bible says so. Then, how do you know the Bible is true? Because the Bible says so. This is circular reasoning. Get him to aknowledge that he believes these things on faith, not because they are irrefutable facts.

For number five, sending kids to public schools is a sin, ask him to do a bit of research on people who have experienced both. I experienced both and can say that homeschooling and private, church run, Christian schools have just as many negative points as the public schools do.
Take my wife who grew up in a small, church run Christian School that never had adequate staff so she had to repeat an eighth grade history class in the tenth grade. And never had a Chemistry Lab or Biology Lab which she later found out she needed if she wanted to go to school to enter the medical field. Plus, her diploma isn't accredited, which means she has to go get her GED just to have a diploma that is officially recognized by many colleges, empolyers, or the military.
All because her folks believed that sending her to a public school would be a sin. But given these facts, which is more criminal?

 

[Optimus]

TRP: Well, all you can do is allow him to believe what he will - but don't let him antagonize you or your family if he starts that (&quot;You're all going to hell!&quot; stuff).

This brings up the fact that with a group as large and diverse as Christianity is, you get so many people believing things as far apart as they can be. For example, I'm a practicing and devout Roman Catholic and here's my take on his beliefs:


<< 1. The Earth is ONLY 6000 yrs old. Don't let science fool you. >>


No. Scientifically the earth and universe are likely much, much older - we are talking millions/billions of years here - not 6000.


<< 2. Genesis creation is 100% fact. >>


I believe Genesis is a story - it represents creation in an allegorical fashion (like a fable or a parable). It isn't literal at all.


<< 3. Evolution is a lie created by Satan. >>


No - we can see the evidence of evolution all around us. I believe evolution is a creation of God - that he set all of existance, physics, and science in motion with the Big Bang. I also believe that at a point God stepped in and created man's soul - which he then granted to our evolved form.


<< 4. Noah's Ark is REAL! >>


Possibly. Although I don't think the great flood covered the &quot;world&quot;, more likely it was simply massive flooding in the known world at the time (middle east/asia).


<< 5. Sending kids to public school is a sin (Homeschooling is the only way). >>


I plan on sending my kids to public school even though I was homeschooled myself. I would rather my kids only learned religion at home, I'm not about to leave that part up to the teacher (too important!). But I'll leave the math, science, etc, etc to those better qualified, not to mention social development. Homeschooling is valid and has a good place in some situations, but it isn't at all the only valid choice.


PliableMoose: Although your gut reaction is one of annoyance, its likely better for you as a person to simply let him be. If people approach you with religion and you aren't interested, simply tell them you aren't and ask them to stop. If they persist you can get annoyed. Anyway, don't 1) Simply hate/judge because they believe something you don't, and 2) Don't decide all Christians/Catholics are &quot;like that&quot; or &quot;sheep&quot;, or especially &quot;morons&quot;.

MazrimTaim: An excellent post.

Dukeleto: Racists can pretend to be anything they want - including Christian. If a lake calls itself a mountain it doesn't make it so.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

<< He's happy and zealous. We all go through that stage. Thats because there is a change in his heart. But he's made the right choice. Jesus will help him get through his growth. Praise God another one will see and live in the eternal kingdom. >>

I think this is a very perceptive observation.

Just remember that you can listen to him and outwardly not agree or disagree. A lot of rifts are caused by one thinking that if they hear something they are not in agreement with they have to &quot;correct&quot; the situation.

 

[GL]

Beast1284,

Please read up on Einstein's belief in God. It's not what you think it is. He believed in a non-personal God - drastically different than the ones fundamentalists believe in.

 

[Eug]

<< Sending kids to public school is a sin (Homeschooling is the only way). >>

Hmmm... I hadn't heard that one before. While homeschooling isn't bad inherently, it depends on the parents. With this guy as their teacher, my guess your nephew and niece are going to seriously suffer for it. I would not have been been as polite as you by the way. A person can have his or her beliefs, but usually when the beliefs are black and white like that, that suggests to me a very simplistic view on life.

 

[Scrapster]

I don't trust born agains.