My bond funds are tanking

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Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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www.markbetz.net
High interest savings might be investing in pricey junk bonds, commercial paper lending to banks in Europe, etc. Supposed to be FDIC insured, and as long as world doesn't fall apart (http://www.kplu.org/post/could-your-money-market-fund-break-buck), probably safe, but need to dig into what any fund is investing in, especially if it offers what should be a too good to be true yield.


With 20 year time horizon, imo, you should be looking at quality mutual funds. Vanguard Index Total Stock Market mutual fund VTSMX (http://books.google.com/books?id=acSxsst51psC&pg=PA421&lpg=PA421&dq=tyranny+of+compound+interest&source=bl&ots=KjsEKvfjNz&sig=H45-D8-ryR5E58qaK-INyrcI8kc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qMfcUaTYHY2ujALHhYCABA&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=tyranny%20of%20compound%20interest&f=false) is great core holding for decades type time horizon, particularly in taxable accounts (remember, you still need some growth to at least keep up with inflation throughout your retirement years), but if stocks make you nervous, you can look at more conservative capital preservation or growth and income stock mutual funds vs purer growth stock mutual fund.


Dividend growth mutual fund (e. g. http://quotes.morningstar.com/fund/vdigx/f?t=VDIGX), rather than dividend paying mutual fund might also be something to look into. Cash cows in growing companies like Johnson and Johnson, Microsoft, etc. that have great cash flow and low payout ratio they can increase, vs. defensive dividend payers like utilities and telecom, where payout ratios already maxed out and valuations very high (do well in no growth or very low growth type economy?)
T. Rowe Price Capital Appreciation fund (http://quotes.morningstar.com/fund/f?region=USA&t=PRWCX) is proven sturdy fund that has done well over time (moderate allocation of stock and bond fund). Oakmark Growth and Income (http://quotes.morningstar.com/fund/oakbx/f?t=oakbx) is a conservative fund that seems to do better in down or very difficult type of markets (some of outperformance may be from losing less than others in down markets).


There are lots of options out there, those just come to mind to me, but only you can decide what is best for you, and you have to do your own homework so you really know what you are buying so when things get volatile again, you can see through the storm to goal further down road and sleep at night as well.


Also keep in mind that these more conservative stock mutual funds or balanced mutual funds might lag, and lag very badly, if stock market really takes off and rotation into tech, financials, and industrials everyone is chattering about really lifts with faster growing economy, but these stable tortoises will still compound wealth, with fewer wiggles up and down in price, but slope (rate of compound interest) will most likely be less than more volatile quality growth type mutual fund).


Good luck.

Thanks. I am in both of the funds you mentioned, Vanguard Total and TRP Capital Appreciation. They've both been doing pretty well. The Vanguard fund has been outstanding. It's really just the bond funds that I bought for "balance" that are having troubles.

The two funds are AGG, and FIHBX. Off 4 and 3 percent respectively.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
Analysts had been warning for some time that interest rates had no where to go but up. When interest rates rise, that hurts bond prices. If you plan to actively manage your portfolio, then I suggest you start following some financial news, like bloomberg.com, marketplace.com, seekingalpha.com, Nightly Business Report on PBS, some might recommend Jim Cramer though I won't. If this is your retirement portfolio and your time horizon is large then I wouldn't worry about your bond funds. Keep them as a small part of your balanced portfolio. At age 35 your should have about 25 - 35% in bonds depending on your risk tolerance.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
1,780
126
It will be another 3-5 years before things get shakey again. Keep your money in bonds and wait for the next dive if you want to sell and move your money to something that's more risky with better possibility for returns.

I dumped half of my bonds and reinvested in stocks a few years back and got decent returns on them....but it won't do much good if you don't buy into dividend stocks and funds to speed up the compounding.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
1,780
126
Analysts had been warning for some time that interest rates had no where to go but up. When interest rates rise, that hurts bond prices. If you plan to actively manage your portfolio, then I suggest you start following some financial news, like bloomberg.com, marketplace.com, seekingalpha.com, Nightly Business Report on PBS, some might recommend Jim Cramer though I won't. If this is your retirement portfolio and your time horizon is large then I wouldn't worry about your bond funds. Keep them as a small part of your balanced portfolio. At age 35 your should have about 25 - 35% in bonds depending on your risk tolerance.

I totally agree with that, but would like to add that at 35 you can park money in bonds instead of a cash account and make safer long term bets when then market goes through its natural losses. So buy bonds when the market is high.....sell them when it's low and use the cash from that to buy stocks/index funds. That's how I roll.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
There is no Morningstar analyst report for the Federated High Yield fund, so I will just link the last public portfolio holdings: http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/summary?t=FIHBX&region=USA&culture=en-us



AGG Morningstar analyst report (Morningstar used to offer free 14 day premium membership so you can read analyst reports, but I think the $100 + / year membership fee is worth it for their mutual fund analyst reports):

"Suitability

IShares Core Total US Bond Market tracks the Barclays Aggregate Bond Index, which is widely used as a proxy for the United States investment-grade bond market. AGG includes mortgage-backed securities, Treasuries, and corporates in its portfolio. This fund is broad enough to serve as the only fixed-income fund in many investors' portfolios.

The key advantage of aggregate bond funds is the built-in diversification benefits of owning different types of bonds. For example, the allocation to government bonds acts as a safety net for your portfolio. Government bonds are one of the only asset classes that have a negative correlation to equities. When stock markets perform poorly, government bond prices fare well. Conversely, when the economy is improving, corporate bonds tend to do well.

Bond prices have an inverse relationship to interest rates. If interest rates go up, bond prices go down. There have been very few sustained periods of rising interest rates during the last 30 years. With interest rates at or near all-time lows, investors today are rightly concerned that rates will rise in the future. AGG's portfolio has an average duration of around five years. This means that if interest rates rise 1%, the value of AGG's portfolio would decline by about 5%.

Investors seeking even broader exposure should note that the Barclays Aggregate Bond Index excludes Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities and floating-rate, tax-exempt municipal, convertible, foreign, and high-yield bonds.


Fundamental View

Securities backed by the U.S. government make up 70% of the fund's portfolio, so its returns are chiefly driven by movements in the U.S. Treasury market. As of this writing, the 10-year Treasury yields around 1.9%. Over the past three years, the 10-year Treasury has traded in a range between 1.4% and 4.0%. With current yields near all-time lows, the fixed-income space is not as attractive as it was just a few years ago.

With a current yield to maturity of 1.7%, investors may want to own AGG for one of two reasons. The first reason is that they think the U.S. may be heading down the same prolonged deflationary deleveraging process that has weighed on the Japanese economy for more than two decades. After Japan's stock market crashed in 1990, the country has seen persistent deflation and falling bond yields. The 10-year Japanese government bond reached a record low yield of 0.45% in 2003. If U.S. yields fall to similar levels, then bonds would appreciate in value--though not by much. The second reason to consider owning this ETF is for the diversification benefits it provides. Investment-grade bonds are one of the only asset classes that is negatively correlated with the stock market.

AGG has a current SEC yield of 1.7%. Based on this current yield, the best-case scenario for investors is total returns of just 1%-4%. There is very little margin for error in the bond market. Yields have very little room to head lower. The 10-year Treasury yield has already risen from a low of 1.4% touched in July 2012. The Congressional Budget Office projects the 10-year Treasury yield will be at 3.0% in 2015 and at 3.8% in 2016. If yields rise as projected, bond funds will have difficulty producing positive returns in the years ahead.


Portfolio Construction

IShares Core Total US Bond Market tracks the Barclays Aggregate Index, a proxy for the broad, investment-grade U.S. bond market. The fund does not hold every security in the index, but instead employs optimization techniques to carefully replicate the index's key characteristics, such as duration (a measure of interest-rate sensitivity) and credit quality. The index contains about 8,000 securities, of which this ETF holds about 1,800. By sector, the index fund's portfolio has a 44% weighting in U.S. government bonds, 30% in mortgage-backed securities, and 22% in U.S. corporates.


Fees

This fund's 0.08% expense ratio is very competitive. With assets greater than $15 billion and average trading volume totaling more than 1 million shares per day, AGG is one of the most liquid bond ETFs available.


Alternatives

Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF BND is the largest ETF in the category, with more than $17 billion in assets. It has an expense ratio of 0.10%.

SPDR Barclays Capital Aggregate Bond LAG, which charges an annual fee of 0.17%, is no longer competitive. Average daily turnover in LAG shares is a small fraction of that witnessed in either BND or AGG shares. And by taking a much smaller sample of its benchmark (about 1,000 securities as of this writing) LAG will potentially exhibit much larger tracking error than its peers.

Schwab U.S. Aggregate Bond SCHZ is a relatively new fund and the low-cost leader in the space with an annual fee of 0.05%. SCHZ is much smaller than its peers with about $400 million in assets. So far, the fund has offered good tracking, but it is still far less liquid than BND and AGG."

http://analysis.morningstar.com/analystreport/ear.aspx?Symbol=AGG&Country=usa