My 7800GT vs X800XL Gaming Comparison (26 games benchmarked!)

[BFG10K]

Try limiting the extension string through Riva Tuner.

Also I definitely do not have console debugging enabled anywhere because it doesn't operate unless you specifically ask for it with -condebug.

 

[BFG10K]

xknight I don't suppose I could convince you to host the 82.12 OpenGL ICD? That way I could quickly try it in GLQuake without installing the beta drivers.

 

[Gstanfor]

You *really* don't deserve it, but, here is a link to the 83.60 OpenGL ICD for you.

You really should try the 83.60's - they are excellent drivers, only 3 small problems:
Color correction isn't working withing profiles
Abba Zabba's VD Demo lacks the swimmer
Luna is black in the second half of the demo (ongoing glitch).

If you don't overclock, I fail to see what you can possibly hurt with the drivers - you have heard of Norton Ghost / PowerQuest DriveImage / Paragon ExactImage etc, have you not?

 

[BFG10K]

You *really* don't deserve it,

Really? Why not?

but, here is a link to the 83.60 OpenGL ICD for you.

Thanks but it doesn't appear to work. It keeps asking for a code from somewhere.

If you don't overclock, I fail to see what you can possibly hurt with the drivers

Spontaneous reboots can at the very least corrupt files. I had enough of that during my 6800U fiasco when I had to reinstall several games on account of the DEP issue rebooting the system.

you have heard of Norton Ghost / PowerQuest DriveImage / Paragon ExactImage etc, have you not?

If nVidia wants to pay me to be a beta tester then I might consider it. Until then I'll stick to official drivers.

 

[imported_Sincity]

Awesome! :thumbsup:

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

You *really* don't deserve it,

Really? Why not?

but, here is a link to the 83.60 OpenGL ICD for you.

Thanks but it doesn't appear to work. It keeps asking for a code from somewhere.

If you don't overclock, I fail to see what you can possibly hurt with the drivers

Spontaneous reboots can at the very least corrupt files. I had enough of that during my 6800U fiasco when I had to reinstall several games on account of the DEP issue rebooting the system.

you have heard of Norton Ghost / PowerQuest DriveImage / Paragon ExactImage etc, have you not?

If nVidia wants to pay me to be a beta tester then I might consider it. Until then I'll stick to official drivers.

You don't deserve it because you are an ignorant, belligerant asshole.

You love to blame your 6800U don't you? If you had trouble with it, why didn't RMA it? That is what warranties are for you know... Of course I doubt it was faulty from the factory but you'll never admit to damaging it yourself, will you?

Anyhow accidental data loss (and the ability to go back to exactly where you were before installing the driver) are precisiely why you back your system up reguarly with the tools I mentioned.

I take it from your comments that you don't backup your system up at all at the moment - why doesn't that suprise me?...

Heres a helpful hint - you can get paragon exact image on Magazine cover cd's, so it won't cost you much.

Anyhow about the dll, I knew it wouldn't work for you before I uploaded it (you can't mix and match driver components like you could in the TNT days anymore), thats why I suggested you use the full 83.60 drivers.

 

[Powermoloch]

Holy smokes man..job well done :beer: !!!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
You don't deserve it because you are an ignorant, belligerant asshole.

It makes him that when he doesn't want to install possibly-bug-ridden beta software on his system?

 

[Gstanfor]

As I said, backup the system first and who cares what damage it wreaks on the HDD?

Besides which, the 83.60's are a damn fine driver set, except for the minor issues I've already pointed out, extremely unlikely to trash your system.

 

[BFG10K]

You don't deserve it because you are an ignorant, belligerant asshole.

Do that again and I'll report you to the mods.

If you had trouble with it, why didn't RMA it?

Because the hardware wasn't faulty, the drivers were. That the green gas cloud occludes your vision and prevents you from understanding this basic fact is your problem, not mine.

Of course I doubt it was faulty from the factory but you'll never admit to damaging it yourself, will you?

The only way I could've damaged it was through nVidia's drivers, but then you yourself just said you can't see any reason why driver would do that.

It's comical to watch you do the nVidia tap-dance. AEG would be proud.

Anyhow accidental data loss (and the ability to go back to exactly where you were before installing the driver) are precisiely why you back your system up reguarly with the tools I mentioned.

I'm not going to back up 72 GBs worth of games to be an nVidia beta tester. That I have backups is irrelevant; what is relevant is me requiring to reinstall them just because some nVidia clown is advocating me to use beta drivers and can't understand basic concepts such as driver bugs.

I take it from your comments that you don't backup your system up at all at the moment - why doesn't that suprise me?...

Why does it not suprise me that you have no clue - yet again - what you're talking about?

Anyhow about the dll, I knew it wouldn't work for you before I uploaded it (you can't mix and match driver components like you could in the TNT days anymore), thats why I suggested you use the full 83.60 drivers.

No Sherlock, it didn't work because I couldn't get to the link to download it in the first place.

As I said, backup the system first and who cares what damage it wreaks on the HDD?

I care. That your standards are so low that you actually find something like this acceptable speaks volumes about the conditioning you've gone through nVidia.

"Who cares if your system get trashed with beta drivers, you have backups, right?"

You make a great puppet spokesman for the green mothership.

I really don't even know why you entered the thread. Everything was going along just great until you showed up. Do us all a favour and take your rabid nVidia leprosy to another thread and leave the real discussion to people that actually have a brain.

 

[Gstanfor]

ROFL! You have entertainment value BFG10K, I'll give you that much.

When you report me to the mods be sure to show them this as well, OK?

about downloading the .dll file, try typing in the 3 letter code you see in the image (your browser needs to be capable of displaying a .png image) and it will work.

About backing up your drive, if you are clueless enough to store your games on your system partition thats your problem, not mine.

About drivers causing your 6800U's crashes, yeah I *really* believe you on that one... How come everyone else isn't suffering your problems? You 'tard!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
xknight I don't suppose I could convince you to host the 82.12 OpenGL ICD? That way I could quickly try it in GLQuake without installing the beta drivers.

Sure, ICD is just system32\nvoglnt.dll? (NVIDIA Compatible OpenGL ICD 6.14.10.8212)

http://xtknight.atothosting.com/82_12_ogl/nvoglnt.zip

(As for the Quake thing, my RivaTuner doesn't have OGL limiter I don't think, just version changer. I tried 1.0 and it still crashes with condebug, but I don't really care, I just won't use condebug.)

 

[BFG10K]

ROFL! You have entertainment value BFG10K, I'll give you that much.

Are you still here? Why do you find it so difficult to stay away from the thread? Does the AEG forbid you from leaving until you've posted your required quota?

About backing up your drive, if you are clueless enough to store your games on your system partition thats your problem, not mine.

It isn't my problem because I don't do it. That you think I do is your problem, not mine.

Regardless, it's quite hilarious to watch you make accusations about how I allegedly manage my system while you advocate nVidia beta drivers while saying "it's okay if things get hosed because you can restore the backups".

If you removed your green glasses for just a moment you'd see how ridiculous your comments are.

About drivers causing your 6800U's crashes, yeah I *really* believe you on that one... How come everyone else isn't suffering your problems?

nForce3 AGP + nVidia GPUs is a known issue except to those that inhale the green gas cloud to dull their senses. When I briefly dropped in an AGP Radeon shortly before before I went PCIe my problems magically vanished. Imagine that.

The DEP issue is also known but thanks to your primitive processor you didn't have to endure it.

You 'tard!

Seriously, have thought about attending a remedial logic class?

 

[BFG10K]

Xknight, thanks for the upload. It turns out it's a no-go as nVidia - unlike ATi - doesn't allow mix-and-matching driver versions. I'm happy to sit tight until nVidia releases some new official drivers and I'll take another look at Quake when they do.

Thanks again. :thumbsup:

 

[Gstanfor]

Be very careful with the AEG accusations BFG10K, if you lived in the same country as me I'd have you up for slander & defamation. Read the first line of my signature very carefully. I am totally independant of the 3D graphics industry.

Told you the .dll wouldn't work didn't I? Or had you forgotten nVidia locked down its drivers because of Unwinder years ago? Perhaps you never knew...

I dont really care what you have on that drive. The fact that you have anything on it other than the OS and essential programs that can't be moved anywhere is bad enough. Did you know my windows XP installation is 3 years old now, and has survived hard drive failure precisely because I back my system up and seperate my data and non essential programs from the OS? It's also on a 10gig partition (with just a touch over 6 gig used).

Your comments on Beta drivers that will corrupt the OS install are ridiculous (and you were the person who orginally brought the issue up, not I). I have NEVER, EVER had anything remotely like that happen. If by some extraordianry chance it was to happen to me though, no big deal, restore the backup and go on my merry way - 20 minute job. You'd have reinstall everything - there is most of your day well and truly wasted.

Not everyone suffers from the nForce3 AGP issue, similarly not everyone suffers the DEP bug. Personally, I've quite deliberately stayed away from the A64 up until now, just like I stayed away from the Slot A Athlon. We'll see if the A64 is mature enough when AMD changes the socket to M2.

EDIT: Whoops - I nearly forgot: so now you are claiming it isn't drivers that caused your 6800U to crash after all? it was actually the naughty nForce3 board you were using... Riiiiiiiight...................................... What's your next excuse going to be? "Aliens from Mars abducted my 6800U and it hasn't worked properly since then"??? :disgust:

 

[BFG10K]

You still here? Fine, let's play.

Be very careful with the AEG accusations BFG10K, if you lived in the same country as me I'd have you up for slander & defamation.

Does that make you feel like a big man on campus?

Read the first line of my signature very carefully. I am totally independant of the 3D graphics industry.

Actions speak louder than words and at this stage your actions are extremely loud.

Told you the .dll wouldn't work didn't I?

You also told me you could remove built-in driver profiles through nVidia's control panel and I'm still waiting for a retraction from you for this BS.

Or had you forgotten nVidia locked down its drivers because of Unwinder years ago? Perhaps you never knew...

No doubt Unwinder discovered something nVidia didn't want him to discover. It's probably linked to the cheating you claimed nVidia don't do.

The fact that you have anything on it other than the OS and essential programs that can't be moved anywhere is bad enough.

Except I don't; that fictional fantasy is something you came up with.

and has survived hard drive failure

I haven't had any hard-disk failures; perhaps you don't know how to manage your hard-disk properly.

Your comments on Beta drivers that will corrupt the OS install are ridiculous (and you were the person who orginally brought the issue up, not I). I have NEVER, EVER had anything remotely like that happen.

Do you understand how modern file system I/O is done? Furthermore I never once claimed my OS got corrupted and you would know this if you had basic reading and comprehension skills.

If by some extraordianry chance it was to happen to me though, no big deal, restore the backup and go on my merry way - 20 minute job.

Why spend 20 minutes if you don't have to?

You'd have reinstall everything - there is most of your day well and truly wasted.

No, I wouldn't.

Not everyone suffers from the nForce3 AGP issue, similarly not everyone suffers the DEP bug.

This is true but the point is that enough do/did to make it a known issue. The DEP issue has since been fixed but the nForce/nVidia stuttering/pausing/freezing still remains for some people.

Personally, I've quite deliberately stayed away from the A64 up until now, just like I stayed away from the Slot A Athlon.

I'm not surprised given your vendor of choice displays an alarming lack of ability to write stable drivers for new platforms. Even now they're asking users to disable dual-core driver optimizations, long after AEG trolls were blasting ATi for not getting dual-core optimizations out the door as fast as nVidia. nVidia should spend more time on writing drivers and less on hiring AEG agents.

EDIT: Whoops - I nearly forgot: so now you are claiming it isn't drivers that caused your 6800U to crash after all? it was actually the naughty nForce3 board you were using

In addition to remedial logic classes I would also suggest some basic reading and comprehension classes too.

The problems were caused by a combination of nVidia GPU drivers with the nForce AGP platform. Like I said earlier when I dropped in an AGP Radeon in there my problems disappeared. It's not a problem with nForce, it's a problem with nVidia's GPU drivers and how they interact with the platform and it's also an embarassment to nVidia given you'd expect GPUs and motherboards from the same vendor to work well.

 

[Gstanfor]

I suspect you will find that any problems between nForce3 and nV40 lie firmly on the nForce3 side, not the nV40 side. The problem occurs only on nForce3 motherboards, not anything else.

I can manage my hard drives perfectly well, thanks very much. This was the only hard drive I've ever had fail on me. It was a seagate 20gig. Evidently it wasn't up to the task of running nonstop for years at a time (since Windows XP was first installed my system has had less than 8 hours of powered down time in the intervening 3 years). It has simply confirmed my belief that Western Digital is the best hard drive maker out there, bar none (the drive that failed was one of 4, the other 3 were WD drives all still work perfectly). Personally I think its the stupid rubber jacket Seagate used to put on the drives that caused the failure by holding heat around the drive. Yes, my drives are and always have been adequately ventilated.

I'd love to know how you can get an OS partition with only essential programs installed up to 72 gigs worth of data...

About my actions that somehow implicate I'm involved with AEG; care to point them out to me? (All the better to get your sorry ass banned with).

 

[BFG10K]

I suspect you will find that any problems between nForce3 and nV40 lie firmly on the nForce3 side, not the nV40 side.

I doubt it given the Radeon had no problems with the board. Also most people that complain about stuttering/pausing/freezing with that chipset also use nVidia GPUs.

The problem occurs only on nForce3 motherboards, not anything else.

DEP most certainly occured on any platform that ran a CPU with hardware support for it along with a version of Windows that supported it.

I'd love to know how you can get an OS partition with only essential programs installed up to 72 gigs worth of data...

It isn't. The 72 GB is my total gaming install size which sits on a single partition Raptor 150. The OS lives on a separate partition and my data and applications are on yet on another partition, both of which are on a separate drive to my games. You might've been tipped off by this fact if you had clicked on my rig signature but you were obviously too busy to jumping to conclusions.

Now, even with a modern file system like NTFS which offers journaling you can still get data corruption if the system decides to spontaneously reboot (thanks mostly to write-back caching and not flushing the disk buffers). This happened several times during my DEP fiasco and I had to reinstall several games on account of file corruption.

(All the better to get your sorry ass banned with).

I'd say you're more likely to be banned on account of your blatant personal insults and trolling.

 

[Gstanfor]

Why would you want to image your entire hard drive?

I only image my OS partition. The data drives get backup seperately (and not using a drive imager), and the game drives only get backed up to DVD when a new game is installed.

DEP problems arise because M$ are incompetent fools. Just like your so called nVidia dual core problems - you can do what nVidia reccomends, or you can install the M$ patch I posted on these forums to fix it.

nV40 has no problems in any chipset other than nForce3. Thats a pretty big hint that nForce3 is the guilty party, not nV40 IMHO...

 

[BFG10K]

Why would you want to image your entire hard drive?

I don't. Where are you getting these ideas from?

Regardless, if I have to restore a typical 1-5 GB game from its original discs that takes time, time which I'd rather not spend by being nVidia's beta tester. I've had enough of the 6800U fiasco to do that again.

DEP problems arise because M$ are incompetent fools.

It's nothing to do with Microsoft, it's nVidia's drivers (or rather it was until they fixed them). Needless to say I didn't have any DEP issues on that platform with either ATi card I used on it.

Just like your so called nVidia dual core problems - you can do what nVidia reccomends, or you can install the M$ patch I posted on these forums to fix it.

The Microsoft patch doesn't guarantee a fix. Also I haven't heard of ATi dual-core optimizations causing problems, have you?

nV40 has no problems in any chipset other than nForce3.

But the two Radeons I used didn't have any problems with that board, other than the odd game which was known to have problems with certain drivers. With the 6800U it was widespread and even without DEP there were freezes/stutters/pauses that occured at seemingly random times in random games.

It's also quite interesting - first you claimed there were no issues with such a setup and that I was simply incompetent, then you claimed I had somehow damaged my board, and then you concocted a strawman that somehow implied I had said nForce 3 is at fault.

Now you turn around and tell us that you not only know such as setup has problems but you also believe it's the nForce3 platform at fault.

Unbelievable.

You may not be a member of the AEG but you're a blatant nVidia troll, no doubts there.

 

[Gstanfor]

You are the one claimed he didn't want to image 72 gigs of data, not me. Try stating what you actually mean for once.

Turn DEP off and you won't get problems with it. Obviously nVidia had to rewrite their drivers to work around M$ incompetence (probably costing them performance in the process).

So what if the radeons have no problems? We are not discussing them.

There is a problem between certain nForce3 boards (unfortunately no-one yet can positively identify which nForce3 boards have the problem, my guess is that certain revisions of the chipset are affected and you will be better off with later revisions) and an nV40 plugged into the said nForce3. The nV40 does not exhibit these problems if plugged into a different motherboard.

There are no stawmen or concoctions in that. And I at no stage said "there were no issues with such a setup", what I said was "Not everyone suffers from the nForce3 AGP issue"! Now who's doing the twisting BFG10K?!? Hint: Not me!

 

[Malladine]

Cool, looks like you enjoy benchmarking BFG.

I am starting to feel very old with my 9800 non pro now

I wonder if I could find an X800XL for under $200...

 

[BFG10K]

You are the one claimed he didn't want to image 72 gigs of data, not me

That's correct, I don't want to image my games. Fortunately I don't have to because I have the original disks.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is that restoring even a single game can take several minutes and I shouldn't have to do this because a vendor can't write proper drivers. That I have backups is irrelevant in this discussion.

Turn DEP off and you won't get problems with it.

Why should I compromise system security because nVidia's driver programmers were incomptenet?
Why should I compromise system security when ATi's drivers didn't have problems with DEP?

Obviously nVidia had to rewrite their drivers to work around M$ incompetence (probably costing them performance in the process).

Microsoft incompetence? What the hell are you talking about? Microsoft supports hardware DEP on SP2. Are you suggesting that both Intel and AMD have faulty hardware implementations and "poor old nVidia" just had to work around them? If so please post evidence to back this claim.

nVidia's drivers were poor and they had to fix them when new technology arrived. Pure and simple.

So what if the radeons have no problems?

It makes the nForce3 less likely to be at fault.

Why can ATi write stable drivers for an allegedly faulty chipset while nVidia - the vendor who made said chipset - can't? Either ATi is very clever or nVidia is very stupid.

In either case it weakens the premise that NF3 is at fault.

We are not discussing them.

This is your biggest problem in these discussions. You seem to be incapable of participating in a discussion that draws neutral evidence to support given claims. If it involves ATi you immediately discount it.

The nV40 does not exhibit these problems if plugged into a different motherboard.

But the Radeon doesn't exhibit these problems if plugged into the same motherboard. The Radeon also didn't/doesn't have problems with DEP or with dual-core optmizations, two issues that were/are known nVidia driver problems and issues which exist outside of NF3.

There are no stawmen or concoctions in that.

Yes, there are. You implied that I was accusing the NF3 for being at fault when ironically it was you who started using this tangent when it starting suiting you.

And I at no stage said "there were no issues with such a setup",

No but you implied it, first by trying to discredit the issues I was having with said system and then moving on to accusing me of damaging my card. It was only in this thread were you moved to claiming NF3 is at fault (which it likely isn't).

what I said was "Not everyone suffers from the nForce3 AGP issue"! Now who's doing the twisting BFG10K?!? Hint: Not me!

I never said everyone had the issues either. What I said was that they are known issues and you've been denying this since I first started posting about them. It wasn't until in this thread were you've changed your tune into saying there are issues but claiming it's NF3 at fault.

 

[BFG10K]

Cool, looks like you enjoy benchmarking BFG.

Yes. :thumbsup:

 

[Gstanfor]

No, BFG10K, I have changed my tune on nothing.

It is you thats has done the tune changing

From a faulty crash prone nV40 to faulty drivers to nForce3. I've had to force the real problem out of you over many posts.

Out of all that, the issue *clearly* rests with nForce3.

I really couldn't care less about DEP. I certainly haven't needed it to run a secure and reliable machine for upwards of 3 years.

If you still have the nV40 and the nForce3, my advice to you is to return the nForce3 board under warranty RMA since it is clearly faulty.

This is a known issue that affects some nForce3 owners, unfortunately.

The Radeons are irrelevant to the discussion because their drivers interact with the nForce3 chipset differently to nVidia's drivers. It's just like in the TnT Vs AGP Voodoo days, the Voodoo's treated AGP llike an overgrown PCI slot, so were largely unaffected by AGP drivers bugs rampant at the time. nVidia on the other hand made full use of the interface and is/was far more sensitive to any shortcomings chipset wise or driver wise that may be present.