My 2000 Honda Accord V6 needs a new transmission!

[tcsenter]

How do you come up with the supposition that GM doesn't think a trans should last more than 100K if one mechanic says that 25% of their transmissions don't make it to 200K?

It wasn't my supposition, it was the owner of the transmission shop, who worked for a major GM service center for like 10 years. I should point out that GM denies there is anything "wrong" with the transmission produced during those years, yet GM not only revised the very parts which are suspect in the transmission for later years, they released an improved overhaul parts kit for that transmission, and issued a technical service bulletin to all subscribers telling them to use the improved overhaul kit on any overhauls. The GM part is identical to the improved overhaul kit that had already been on the market for two years...produced by an aftermarket company who first identified the design flaws.

But there was 'nothing wrong' with the trans...OK!

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

How do you come up with the supposition that GM doesn't think a trans should last more than 100K if one mechanic says that 25% of their transmissions don't make it to 200K?

It wasn't my supposition, it was the owner of the transmission shop, who worked for a major GM service center for like 10 years. I should point out that GM denies there is anything "wrong" with the transmission produced during those years, yet GM not only revised the very parts which are suspect in the transmission for later years, they released an improved overhaul parts kit for that transmission, and issued a technical service bulletin to all subscribers telling them to use the improved overhaul kit on any overhauls. The GM part is identical to the improved overhaul kit that had already been on the market for two years...produced by an aftermarket company who first identified the design flaws.

But there was 'nothing wrong' with the trans...OK!

So, GM saw a flaw in the trans that could affect its longevity and made a correction. This obviously shows the lack of caring that you purport that they have. Do all the technical service bulletins issued by foreign car makers show their lack of concern too?

 

[Ornery]

"Detroit actually started making econoboxes much earlier than the first gas crisis.
Falcon - 1960
Corvair - 1960
Valiant - 1960"


There's always been a niche market for unusual cars like those, but it was the ONLY thing being built in Japan and 95% of what was being built in Germany. Most of our average cars were V8, body on frame, RWD cruisers. The same configuration that makes up todays $50,000.00+ Japanese or German luxury cars, which also neglect to offer manual trannies. We (American consumers) made a HUGE mistake turning that niche market into the norm... ugh!

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: goodoptics
:Q WTF? I'm wondering how you treated your Honda Accord. Did you slam it in gear at high rpm's??? If you like to drive rough, you should've gotten one equipped with a manual transmission.

I was under the impression that Honda didn't ever make the current generation of Accord with a V6 & manual transmission...

Anywho, to the original poster... did you regularly change tranny fluid as you should have for severe duty driving as it seems you were doing? (Short distance = severe duty) All that shifting on an auto tranny for those short trips will put a lot more strain on it than highway miles. But 2 years is a pretty damn short time. Prolly just a freak manu defect...

On a side note, I honestly don't know of many Honda owners that take proper care of their cars... heck, a lot don't even know about the break-in period and expect the car to not break because it's a <insert "reliable" car here>.

 

[brtspears2]

You just got unlucky.. or lucky like finding a needle in a haystack. Not everything will be perfect. Can't expect every SINGLE car that Honda makes, it will run flawlessly.

Yes, draining transmission fluid is simple just a plug. Every 3rd oil change, get it drained and refilled. As someone said, like oil change, just no filter to change.

 

[tcsenter]

So, GM saw a flaw in the trans that could affect its longevity and made a correction. This obviously shows the lack of caring that you purport that they have. Do all the technical service bulletins issued by foreign car makers show their lack of concern too?

Sure, they made a correction and told the owners who bought their defective transmission 'tough luck, chum, you have to pay for any repairs'. You can't revise a transmission defect at the same time you're saying there was nothing wrong with the transmission. Maybe I'll have to explain the contradictory nature of those actions, but perhaps you'll surprise everyone by figuring it out.

Whereas Japanese manufacturers are famous for issuing recalls for defects that are quite costly to repair, affect only a small percentage of vehicles, and involve no safety concern, US manufacturers have to be threatened with class action lawsuit or fines by US regulatory agencies before they'll issue a recall.

 

[drogue]

ornery, i hope you are really rich and can give everyone really nice cars with money to pay for insurance and gas. if not THEN SHUT THE F* UP.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Detroit actually started making econoboxes much earlier than the first gas crisis.
Falcon - 1960
Corvair - 1960
Valiant - 1960"


There's always been a niche market for unusual cars like those, but it was the ONLY thing being built in Japan and 95% of what was being built in Germany. Most of our average cars were V8, body on frame, RWD cruisers. The same configuration that makes up todays $50,000.00+ Japanese or German luxury cars, which also neglect to offer manual trannies. We (American consumers) made a HUGE mistake turning that niche market into the norm... ugh!

I guess consumers don't agree with you. RWD isn't important today unless you want performance or towing, in that case get a performance car or a pickup truck. Body on frame isn't important unless you need it for some reason. V8? WTF do you *need* that for? It's a convenience not a necessity. It's simple economics. I like some of those good old-fashioned muscle cars but their day is long gone.

 

[drogue]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Detroit actually started making econoboxes much earlier than the first gas crisis.
Falcon - 1960
Corvair - 1960
Valiant - 1960"


There's always been a niche market for unusual cars like those, but it was the ONLY thing being built in Japan and 95% of what was being built in Germany. Most of our average cars were V8, body on frame, RWD cruisers. The same configuration that makes up todays $50,000.00+ Japanese or German luxury cars, which also neglect to offer manual trannies. We (American consumers) made a HUGE mistake turning that niche market into the norm... ugh!

lol, what a gem!
same configuration huh? those are two specific lux cars. whoopty friggin do. try this German on for size...or how about this Japanese gee, those look like 6 cyl engines to me. the car industry has moved to lighter, more efficient engines that can still produce plenty of power. look to a honda s2000 (240hp), or the upcoming honda accord v-6 (240hp) for proof.
furhtermore, are you saying that everything under 50k is econo? i think 'vette owners, most lexus owners, most bmw and mb owners would object to that. if you want a big, wasteful, ugly 70s style ghetto cruiser then go get one....and stop bitching here

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

So, GM saw a flaw in the trans that could affect its longevity and made a correction. This obviously shows the lack of caring that you purport that they have. Do all the technical service bulletins issued by foreign car makers show their lack of concern too?

Sure, they made a correction and told the owners who bought their defective transmission 'tough luck, chum, you have to pay for any repairs'. You can't revise a transmission defect at the same time you're saying there was nothing wrong with the transmission. Maybe I'll have to explain the contradictory nature of those actions, but perhaps you'll surprise everyone by figuring it out.

Whereas Japanese manufacturers are famous for issuing recalls for defects that are quite costly to repair, affect only a small percentage of vehicles, and involve no safety concern, US manufacturers have to be threatened with class action lawsuit or fines by US regulatory agencies before they'll issue a recall.

Perhaps, but the latest so called recall from Toyota ruined their image in my eye. There're sludge issues affecting Toyota 3.0L V6 engine, mostly used in Camry LE & XLE, Sienna and Lexus RX300. When its not detected early enough, the result is a engine failure that has to be replaced. For years owners have reported this problem, and Toyota standard answer has been blaming the user for lack of oil changes and deny warranty repair even if the car is still under warranty. From what I seen, this mostly affects those owner that changed their oil in the tune of 5000-7500 miles, which is perfectly fine in Toyota's standard. Finally this year Toyota issued a statement that extend the powertrain warranty for this type of failure and repair it 100%, but they still didn't bulge from their position of owner's fault and stated this effort is conducted to ensure Toyota level of service, and they're not refunding all the previous owner that had to replace their engine.....Toyota should've just admitted their engine has flaws that tends to produce sludge if the oil is not change frequently enough (like every 3000miles). Also another known fact for Toyota, whenever they issue a TSB, the owner has to pay for it even if its still under their warranty (although some good dealer usually absorb the cost).

As for Ornery's hatred toward econoboxes, not everyone can afford more expensive vehicle and you can't deny them from the right to own their own vehicle. I personally dislike large SUV (Suburban, Excursion, Tahoe, Sequioa,etc). They obstruct views, hogs the road and spew more polutions. How many of those ever seen dirt road? Most of the time they're pretty much just carry 1 person to their work anway. They're nothing more than big macho minivan version for city dwellers.

 

[Squisher]

We are talking about a defect that affects 25% of transmissions(according to your sources) with 200K mi. Is it possible that 25% of transmissions have not properly been taken care of? I think that's possible.

So, foreign car makers never issue silent recalls or service kits to upgrade their problems and domestics only issue recalls when taken to court?

Pardon me, if I feel your mindset has been skewed by an unfair perception that foreign equals good domestic equals bad.

This same mindset allows all foreign car makers a freepass when they issue a recall, yet when domestics issue one it is front page news.

I have nothing but respect for many foreign cars and their manufacturers, but they are not made by divine intervention and domestic manufacturers are not the devils that you make them out to be.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: drogue
ornery, i hope you are really rich and can give everyone really nice cars with money to pay for insurance and gas. if not THEN SHUT THE F* UP.

What a fvcking clueless tard! Before the F-150 was the top selling vehicle in the country, the title belonged to the lowly Chevy Impala. Not exactly "really nice" or "high insurance cost", yet had all the important attributes of the Lexus and Mercedes. 14 - 17MPG was nothing to sneeze at either. These current econoboxes negate their fuel savings with the high cost to repair 'em. The "old fashioned" body on frame, V8s with rugged automatics were cheap to buy new, and held up to pot hole filled American roads and little maintanance. The EXACT reasons why your local police departments insist on using the very same configuration today. Gas is $1.25 per gallon today. Adjusted for inflation, it should be double that compared to what it cost during the American cruiser hay day.

 

[tcsenter]

Perhaps, but the latest so called recall from Toyota ruined their image in my eye. There're sludge issues affecting Toyota 3.0L V6 engine, mostly used in Camry LE & XLE, Sienna and Lexus RX300. When its not detected early enough, the result is a engine failure that has to be replaced.

I'm familiar with this issue, and I have to say, it is somewhat debatable whether this can truly be said to be a defect, a maintenance issue, or whether it is a design flaw that in the majority of cases will never cause a problem unless it is combined with or exacerbated by poor maintenance. A 'which came first, the chicken or the egg' affair, if you will.

At least there is a preventative remedy, and Toyota extended the warranty for this service, unlike the transmission problem I'm speaking of.

I'm not 'bashing' GM, I've always own GM cars with the exception of one Ford. I actually favor GM cars, because I don't mind doing my own repairs, unless it is something I cannot do because I don't have the knowledge, tools, or facilities, as was the case with my transmission. Other than having to plug $1600 into it unexpectedly, I really like my Bonneville.

 

[tcsenter]

We are talking about a defect that affects 25% of transmissions(according to your sources) with 200K mi. Is it possible that 25% of transmissions have not properly been taken care of? I think that's possible.

Again, GM not only revised the transmission in later years, I believe in 95 or 96, but they revised the very parts that an aftermarket company described as 'poorly designed' and developed their own improved overhaul kit, and what do you know, the failure rate fell dramatically.

Yep, sounds like a maintenance issue.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Very bitter aren't you."


If by bitter, you mean disgusted, then YES! I hate econoboxes of any manufacturer, foreign or domestic! :|


"Detroit lost their sale in the early 90s due to their..."


The 90s! Hah, try the mid seventies! And it was due to gas prices. Detroit couldn't gear up fast enough to produce what Japan had been perfecting for years... ECONOBOXES! F 'em, I hope they choke and die with their wondrous gas savings in these eensie-weensie death traps. Serves 'em right to be stuck with tranny troubles. Gee, where's the savings when you have to cough up so much money to keep the POS rolling?

Ornery, all but the very largest SUV's are actually more dangerous to the driver than cars. (Not to mention more dangerous to everyone else, as well). I refer you to this thread.
Look how well little "fwd pos" like the Civic, Golf, and Accord do as compared to say, the Explorer.

 

[tcsenter]

I have nothing but respect for many foreign cars and their manufacturers, but they are not made by divine intervention and domestic manufacturers are not the devils that you make them out to be.

Oh I don't think that GM is evil, just incompetent, there is a difference.

I actually can't blame them for not recalling many of their defects, doing so would require the next 20 years profits just to pay for it, if it didn't send them into intractable bankruptcy.

Thank you for contacting the Center for Auto Safety (CAS) about your General Motors H-car (Buick LeSabre, Oldsmobile 88, Pontiac Bonneville). Introduced in 1982 and redesigned in 1991, these are some of GM oldest models. GM dropped the Olds 88 after 1999 when it redesigned the LeSabre and Bonneville for 2000. Before 1991, defects such as paint peel, seat belts and steering loss and automatic transmissions failing plagued these cars. Since 1993 the quality has improved but numerous problems remain.

 

[Ornery]

"...all but the very largest SUV's are actually more dangerous to the driver than cars. (Not to mention more dangerous to everyone else, as well...

The great American consumer chose the mini SUVs and minivans over the venerable station wagon. They chose aesthetics and gas mileage over functionality... fine. My point is about the fact that we once built cheap, safe dependable cruisers, like the Impala, with indestructible automatics and fair gas mileage. Now we've handed over that heritage to... heh, nobody! That type of vehicle is not built by anybody, anymore! Well, perhaps the Crown Vic, but that's about it. Damn shame, because that platform is king for safety, durability and ease of maintenance. The 350ci V8 and turbo hydromatics were at the apex of the "bang for the buck" curve. Now both these designs have been compromised for the sake of fuel savings and EPA concerns. Bottom line is that it serves us right if we're stuck with wimpy, FWD configurations that can't take the abuse our tried and true "old fashioned" technology could. Funny how the ultra luxury cars use that very same "old fashioned" configuration though, eh?

 

[drogue]

ornery, you obviously dont understand much about cars.

efficiency is the key principle in cars, the old impalas simply werent efficient. 14 mpg is less than most high end sports cars gets these days (i.e. corvette which gets 18, or your favored lexus ls 430 which gets 18 also). also, try look at the volvo S80. Inline 6, develops 270hp, and is rated at 19mpg.
unibody construction has made cars lighter, faster, and more efficient than older cars. perhaps their not quite as reliable, but older cars were never as complex. ABS, fuel injection, ECUs, etc.. have made cars more complex, and thus they are slightly more fragile. if they are used PROPERLY they still wont break most times (korean cars such as daewooor kia and the american cars made by ford, are the exception here: they always break) the industry has changed. if you dont like the new cars go find yourself a 70s style cruiser, and be happy. however, for those of us that can appreciate newer technologies we'll go on using our "econoboxes" long after your engine has been worn and beaten to the point its unusable.

 

[drogue]

The "old fashioned" body on frame, V8s with rugged automatics were cheap to buy new, and held up to pot hole filled American roads and little maintanance. The EXACT reasons why your local police departments insist on using the very same configuration today.

lol, do you know what the typical lifespan of a police cruiser is? about 2 years, if its particularly well taken care of. if you had to buy a new car or do a major service tune up every two years your cost to repair goes skyhigh. if your gonna say something, at least know what the hell you're talking about.

edit: spelling

 

[Cyberian]

efficiency is the key principle in cars

Bullshit.

 

[Ornery]

"...do you know what the typical lifespan of a police cruiser is? about 2 years"

Go on, what's your point? They'd be better off with what? Come on, let's hear it! What would suit them better, and EXACTLY why do they choose Crown Vics over any other type by a HUGE margin?

Can't wait to hear this, genius!

 

[drogue]

Originally posted by: Cyberian

efficiency is the key principle in cars

Bullshit.

well then tell me, oh wise master, what exactly auto manufacturers shoot for? performance, comfort, and everything else takes a distant 2nd or 3rd to efficiency in 95% of cars produced. obviously $100K+ cars dont follow that rule, but they aren't a representative cross section sample of the majority of cars either. engine efficiency can be tuned for performance, economy, smoothness, or in between. if you cant understand that, you dont understand cars very well either. i'm no mechanical engineer, but i'm not an idiot either. even NFS4 would be forced to agree with me on efficiency of engines, much as he would hate to agree with me just once. atleast he (unlike you and ornery) has a clue what he's talking about.

 

[drogue]

my point was not that they shouldnt use crown vics/grand marquis. my point was that big heavy cars, driven hard - even when they are meant to be drien hard such as a police car will break and wear out just like every other car. furthermore, many local police forces are starting to use camaros (or even 'vettes, in texas) b/c they can be driven HARDER than the crown vics, wear just as well, if not better under high abuse, and perform better.

 

[Ornery]

My point is that a V8, body on frame, RWD is more durable and safer than the econoboxes our consumers have opted for. Our consumers are making a BIG mistake in this choice. The gas savings is nullified by the repair costs of these fragile wimp-mobiles and their families very lives are at greater risk on top of all that. Strange priorities!

It was the consumer that forced Detroit to shift gears to building these Japanese clones. We had the most durable auto platform in the world being built here routinely and cheaply, but our consumers threw it all away in favor of fuel savings. Strange priorities... VERY strange!

 

[drogue]

i would rather have an accident ina new honda accord or toyota camry than one of the old impalas. crumple fenders, belt pretensioners, airbags, antilock brakes, are all newer technologies, not found on the cruisers of old you are talking about.

look at the Honda Accord's sfaety ratings, vs. the new Grand Marquis. Both have really good safety ratings, yet the accord is $8000 cheaper, 800 lbs lighter, and gets 9mpg more than the grand marquis. yes, obviously the old platform is better......