My 1GHZ TB CPU is way to hot! Need Advice!

[Lonewalker]

Hey all,

My bro and I each put together a 1ghz Thunderbird system. Specs: 256 pc-133, ibm deskstar, Geforce 2 etc...

We bought a case from www.colorcase.com. Here is a url to the type of case we bought:
http://www.colorcase.com/products/case/translucent/rainbow.html
We both got a black case with a 250 watt Fortune power supply.

Alrighty, we installed all the compentents once we had them all shipped to us and we were off and running... installing Windows and drivers.
Though we both started to experience A LOT of lock ups. A hard reboot was the only way to get the system up again. After a lot of frustration we both think its that these cpus are running way to hot. I obviously don't have much experience with cooling a system and I really didn't plan properly for it.
We just have 1 80mm fan in the front of each case and the power supply blowing out from the back. The Leadtek Geforece 2 has its own fan.

Here are the temp readings I am getting from the Bios.
Current CPU Temp ranges from 39-55C. Around the 40C mark our systems really start to lock up a lot. Current System Temp is around 37-33C.
From what I have read this is pretty hot. Is this true? I don't even know what temp is advised for a 1GHZ TB.

What do you experts advice my bro and I do? We each have a new system that we really can't even use. Do you think this is what is causing the constant lock-ups on our systems?
The lock ups are happening from all different angles, using my cdrw, coping files, playing games, listening to mp3s etc.. I have defraged, ran all of Nortan systemworks programs and they all say everything is clean and good to go.

Also can someone please advice us on what action we can take to get these cpus/systems cool enough to run all day in our room with the hot Las Vegas summers. What is the best cpu cooler we can get for our Slot A cpus. Btw, we both have a Iwill KK-266 Motherboard.

On to the next question. We each have one stick of 256 Micron pc-133 ram.
Now when I power up my machine, the intial read sequence on the right hand side reads DRAM = 100mhz. Isn't that supposed to read 133mhz? How can I changed it to 133? Or am I reading this wrong.

Alrighty, so please everyone advise us if these temp for the cpu and system are to hot and if so, what type of cpu/system fans can we install on Socket A cpu. I need your expert advice as we are both are pretty ingnorant on the issue of cooling a system properly!
Any urls and detailed info would rock!
Thanks for your time and help!

Justin

 

[Duvie]

On the memory question go into bios and select "spd" or "host_clk +33"...I assume you have the 200fsb tbird 1gig...probably set to host_clk right now which is 100 if the fsb is 200...(100x2 (for double pumped)) = 200fsb.


What kind of coolers do you have on chips now? Those cpu ranges are quite wide. Are you reading initial temps to get 39 and full load at 55 (meaning cpu is running near or at 100% load)? For idle temps wait til it gets to desktop then let it set for a few minutes the temp guage will start to even out...record that temp 40-45 idle is fine not great, 45-50 ok but be concerned since you are not even stressing it. Above 50's people have noticed 1 giggers have more probs. So this definitely can be an issue. Did you mount cpu coolers on your own? Tell me how you did it...

Those system temps are quite high as well...98-91 degrees...if you had effective case cooling your temps should be closer to ambient room temps. I run 23 celsius or 73 fahrenheit for system and 33 celsius 91 fahrenheit right now for cpu. I have 3 case fans not including cpu fan or ps fan. Cool down case air and bring down system temps and cpu temps. Your ps fan is worthless to count as it does little to exhaust heat of mobo, cpu and other cards...it mostly is exhausting heat of PS as not ot load the case with that heat. I would place at least another good 80mm at the back below ps. This will help to facilitate good cross circulation...Recommend good side fan mount to blow directly across pci cards or onto mobo. You got to realize all of those canles and cords hamper good airflow and stagnant air is warmer air...


One other thing...why did you get 250 watt pS's...amd recommends 300 watt ps for 1 gig tbirds. You may have hand tied yourself for expansion of cpu or ide devices in the future, as well as invited future power probelms which create many problems often difficult to diagnos. Actually can't rule this out yet as a factor until we are certain the heat isn't the real issue...I really recommend good brand 350 for 1 gigs. the more ide devices such as multiple HDD's and cd-rw's you place take more and more power...

 

[Lonewalker]

Duvie thanks for all the great help and info!


The reason we think it?s an over heating problem is that the systems are stable for the first 15-25 minutes and then they just start dieing.

We reboot after a hard lock and they will lock up again 3-7 mins after that. Also, my brothers machine just dies. Heres what happens. You do about anything, play a game, watch a dvd, copying files etc.. And the monitor just goes black. The systems power light is still on but the system just locks up. The signal from the video card must lock up or something because the monitor is getting no signal from it. Resulting in a black screen.

Does this lead you experts to think that the power supply (Fortune 250W) is cutting out on over usage or that the system overheats and shuts down? He doesn't have a cdrw like me. So he just has a SB live, IBM deskstar and DVD in his PCI slots.

Something that would really help is an exact model of fan that you experts know works very well with Socket A cpus (1ghz TB). Even if it were the power supply, I would like to upgrade the current "retail" heatsink and fan on our cpus now.

Also, is there a way of adding a second 80mm fan in the black of the case without having to cut a hole for it? On the back of my case it has a long medal area with holes cut all through it. Could I place one on that and have it suck the air out through those holes? How exactly do you place a fan on the back of a case? The company that I bought the cases from said it could handle 1 80mm fan in the front and 1 40mm in the back. I have only 1 in the front. Here is the url to my case: http://www.colorcase.com/products/case/translucent/rainbow.html

Is their a type of heatink and fan that comes with this cooling "gel" on the bottom of the heatsink pre smoothed on. Sort of a all in one combo deal. Please recommend an awesome heatsink and fan for our Socket A cpus. I am totally in the dark when it comes to cooling!

For a test and I going to run our house air-conditioning system for while to get it a lot cooler in our rooms and then open up our cases and put big fans next to them and see if we still get this over heating problem.

I will resurface after that. Anymore helpful insights on the "locking up" and "black screen" problems would mean a lot.

Thanks again everyone for all the help. We really apprciate it!

Justin

 

[Duvie]

I understand why you think it is heat related but pS problems can also act similar...that is why good ps is paramount because power related problems can be tough to identify...I recommend going to www.amd.com and see if the fortune ps is even ahtlon recommended...my guess is no since very few 250's are listed. Ps problems don't have to materialize at bootup. Do you ever get random reboots?

Usually freezes are heat related. Again tell me what cooler you have on the cpu now and how did you place it...there should be a pretabed thermal strip on the bottom...you remove the tape only when you are ready to place it otherwise it may dry out and loose effectiveness...I am concerned this whole step may be the problem, if heat is in fact the culprit.

The rear case fan should have screw holes already there on the case...I have never seen a case I have bought that has not had this...

POst heatsink question of brand in case cooling they will help you there...

 

[phatstyl]

i bet its the POS PSU......

 

[Lonewalker]

Hi all,

Thanks again for all the great replys and info. Thanks to everyone(Duvie!) that told us how to get our dram memory to 133 mhz in the bios. It worked great! You guys rock!

Well, I opened up my case and put 2 small but powerful fans next to my case blowing into the opening. The system never crashed once. I played some games, ran a scandisk on my hd and then just left it on with a 3d nivida demo running for 3 hours. The CPU never got past 33C on full load.

So I guess it is the over heating of the CPU that is causing the lockups. Though I think we are going to get a 300-350 watt AMD approved power supply also.

Now for some more questions How am I going to cool these bad boys with just small fans inside the case.
I know I need to add a 40mm fan in the rear of the case. My current case has room for one 40 mm fan in the back. But for the CPU fan, I am thinking of this one: GlobalWin WBK38 Socket A/370 38CFM.
Here is a link to it:
http://millisec.safeshopper.com/53/450.htm?861
Now it says its the "Newest" one. Also, it says it has the thermal grease preapplied. Would this be a good fan/heatsink combo to get? Would I need to apply another type of thermal grease or would the grease that is preapplied work well enough? Remember we aren't overclocking these cpus. I just want them to be cool

A lot of replys I have been getting say this GlobalWin with the 60mm fan is pretty good. Though very loud. I am not sure, as I have NO experience in cooling a system. I really don't mind it being loud but is their another option to cool this system, without such a loud fan? But I know we need something powerful enough to cool these cpus.

My question is why doesn't the fan and heatsink from the "Retail" Athlon box cool these cpus enough so I don't have to buy a bigger fan? I am not overclocking the cpu in any way. I have the 1 80mm fan in the front of the case and I agree that putting a 40mm in the back is needed....
but it seems odd to me that I HAVE to get a huge fan/heatsink to make this puppy run.

I wonder if the 250 watt power supply has any to do with this. I now one person said that the lack of power to my system could cause more resistence on the inner workings of the cpu and cause the it to heat up more.
What do you all think?

What about the Golden Orb Fan? Would that be a good compremise? This unit here looks pretty sweet:
DU0462-3 (Super Orb)
http://www.thermaltake.com/superorb.htm

In the future we want to be able to pop in a 1.5 ghz TB and put in a Geforce 3. So I am looking for a fan/heatsink that can grow with this. Thats another reason why I think just getting a 300-350 watt Power supply now is a good idea. TO be be able to give enough juice in the future to upgrades.

Alrighty, so thats the high and low end of it.

To review the questions I have for you experts, here they are:

1. Why do we need to upgrade from our "retail" AMD boxed fan/heatsink when they are provided by AMD as comparable cooling solution. Why do our systems overheat when we are not even overclocking them? Is this normal?

2. What type of fan/heatsink should we get for our Socket A 1ghz. We plan to put in a 1.5 ghz when the TB tops out. The golden orb looks good for a nice balance between what we have now and the GlobalWin WBK38.
But you guys know best. What should we do for cooling!?

Thanks for your time and help!
Justin

 

[HawkeyeColt]

Your temps are not bad at all. I'm running a 1gig and 1.2 gig and my temps under full load are both the same at 52.3C. The HSF that comes with a retail bird is not that bad of HSF. The only thing that sucks is the thermal tape they use. I still haven't taken the tape off of mine. Why I used the tape in the first place I dunno. I will be fixing that soon.
At the AMD site you will see 250 watt PSUs on their recommended PSU list. I was running my 1.2 bird with a GF2U , 2 nics,DVD,burner,zip drive, 2 HDs and 4 case fans on 250 watt Tiger PSU with no problems at all. I swappped it out for a 430 watt Enermax cause I liked the gold fan guards.
I personally don't like Fortune PSU. I had problems with one a few years back. It was causing electrical interference with my video card. Took it out and the problem went away. So anything Fortune is on my what not to buy list.

 

[Duvie]

I agree i think the cpu coller is probably fine...work on getting those case temps down and that will subsequently help cpu temps as well. Since cpu cooler is most likely drawing in that warm stagnant case air which you had before (higher temps than my cpu at idle) you are doing little effectiveness.

INstal one 80-92 mm exhaust fan in rear (40 I think is to small unless it is high rpm and thus higher noise).

INstal one 80-120 mm fan on side of case...I did...brought my temps in case down considerably for not really having any temp probs at time. Get a drill and dril 1/8" holes (probably 30-40) for the vent and 4 holes for the screws (use some rubber washers to cut down on any case vibration. direct it onto mobo below cpu onto the northbridge chipset and/or pci cards which can generate tremendous heat.

Also look into getting heatsink for northbridge chipset...I have one on my board and it can get warm (I am however oc'ing slightly...

any other questions you can pm me...if so enable your so I can pm back.