MWC 2017 Phones

[darkswordsman17]

Seeing all the new phones shown at MWC and I have to wonder, are Android OEMs actively not going for AMOLED or is Samsung maybe locking them out (or even just using up all of its output between their own devices and then Apple allegedly)? What makes it especially baffling is the fact that Google made Daydream require AMOLED, so that means they're effectively locking themselves out of using what is a major feature of the platform. I'd think Google would push them to use AMOLED for that reason even, and yet.

It almost certainly can't be price since lower priced stuff has in the past had AMOLED (even kinda recently just look at say the Axon 7 Mini which can be had for $200 often).

So I can only guess that Samsung is tightening up (I'd guess that the lower tier stuff were getting displays that didn't pass the muster for use in their flagships and excess capacity) sales to others (Google and Apple get exemptions for obvious reasons). And since they seem to be the only ones making AMOLED displays in phone sizes, they're able to dictate things.

Really wish LG or Sony or someone would try to give them some competition (and likewise give LG some competition in TV sized OLED panels).

 

[Lodix]

Samsung would happily sell amoleds screen to them. Don't make everything a conspiration. Same as the SD835.

 

[Commodus]

My hunch is that it's simply a matter of supply. Samsung is the biggest producer of AMOLED panels, but there's only so much it can do when it has to accommodate its own demands plus Apple and Google. LG makes OLEDs, of course, but its production levels aren't nearly as high as Samsung's.

I wouldn't be surprised if LG ramps up OLED production, and if companies like Sharp pitch in, but you might not see an explosion of usage until next year or later.

 

[dawheat]

My hunch is that it's simply a matter of supply. Samsung is the biggest producer of AMOLED panels, but there's only so much it can do when it has to accommodate its own demands plus Apple and Google. LG makes OLEDs, of course, but its production levels aren't nearly as high as Samsung's.

I wouldn't be surprised if LG ramps up OLED production, and if companies like Sharp pitch in, but you might not see an explosion of usage until next year or later.

I believe while Samsung only makes about 1/3 of all AMOLED panels, that percent is for all uses of AMOLED displays including TVs, etc. When it comes to smartphones, I recall reading that Samsung had over 90% market share and that no one else had any meaningful capacity. This will change over time as everyone invests in AMOLED displays, but I wonder how long it'll take them to catch up in quality.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yeah, I think Samsung is basically the only one making AMOLED panels in anything lower than TV sizes, while LG is basically the only one making TV sized panels (Sony and the others offering OLED TVs this year are using LG panels). There might be others but I don't know of any that have meaningful output or go into actual products that people buy (I think all of the lower end phones that have had AMOLED over the years were using either previous gen or lower rated panels from Samsung).

Forgot about all the smaller OLED stuff (the Sandisk Sansa CLip had OLED panel), not sure who makes those. I think Samsung makes the AMOLED display in the Apple Watch.

That mixed with the reports of them buying up most of the initial supply of SD835 seems to indicate they plan to sell a lot of S8s (maybe another buy one get one like on the S7, although if they keep that up people are going to expect it and its going to tank profits even more than they already are). I wonder if they might not have a bombshell like a new Note at the same time, since that's leaving a large amount of sales on the table.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Who is making the OLED displays going in the VR headsets? The PS VR being RGB AMOLED would seem to differ from Samsung's offerings (or do they make an RGB one too?)

My hunch is that it's simply a matter of supply. Samsung is the biggest producer of AMOLED panels, but there's only so much it can do when it has to accommodate its own demands plus Apple and Google. LG makes OLEDs, of course, but its production levels aren't nearly as high as Samsung's.

I wouldn't be surprised if LG ramps up OLED production, and if companies like Sharp pitch in, but you might not see an explosion of usage until next year or later.

In some ways that's kinda my point, its a bit odd that Samsung is basically focusing on small OLED while LG is doing the larger ones. And seemingly practically no one else (that is anywhere close to actual production, so they'll have to have the money to build the factories none of this stuff is chump change, so its not like it will happen suddenly or anything). I don't think its even its a cost issue though, as some are moving to stuff like micro LED (Apple is rumored to be ditching AMOLED on the watch for that for instance) which is actually more expensive to make. Is someone making threats about IP/patents or something? Wasn't that partly what sunk SED?

I think Sharp sold off their display production didn't they? And I believe they were basically just offering LG some factory space (so that LG didn't have to build new factories) on OLED production, so its not like Sharp was really developing anything for production.

 

[Commodus]

Who is making the OLED displays going in the VR headsets? The PS VR being RGB AMOLED would seem to differ from Samsung's offerings (or do they make an RGB one too?)



In some ways that's kinda my point, its a bit odd that Samsung is basically focusing on small OLED while LG is doing the larger ones. And seemingly practically no one else (that is anywhere close to actual production, so they'll have to have the money to build the factories none of this stuff is chump change, so its not like it will happen suddenly or anything). I don't think its even its a cost issue though, as some are moving to stuff like micro LED (Apple is rumored to be ditching AMOLED on the watch for that for instance) which is actually more expensive to make. Is someone making threats about IP/patents or something? Wasn't that partly what sunk SED?

I think Sharp sold off their display production didn't they? And I believe they were basically just offering LG some factory space (so that LG didn't have to build new factories) on OLED production, so its not like Sharp was really developing anything for production.

I don't think it's due to patents, at least not at first blush. If Apple switches to micro LED, it'll likely be for the same reason it designs its own mobile processors: because it lets the company advance technology on its own terms, rather than waiting for a supplier to develop the tech it needs. Remember how Apple gradually improved the A-series chips to the point where they now consistently outperform Snapdragon chips from the same era? Don't be surprised if the Apple Watch (and eventually other products) ends up being brighter and thinner than all its rivals.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I don't think it's due to patents, at least not at first blush. If Apple switches to micro LED, it'll likely be for the same reason it designs its own mobile processors: because it lets the company advance technology on its own terms, rather than waiting for a supplier to develop the tech it needs. Remember how Apple gradually improved the A-series chips to the point where they now consistently outperform Snapdragon chips from the same era? Don't be surprised if the Apple Watch (and eventually other products) ends up being brighter and thinner than all its rivals.

Yeah Apple bought a company that was developing microLED so it likely is them wanting to reap the benefits of that. I'd be surprised if they can make it thinner than AMOLED (and it supposedly is still more expensive), but they play the long game, and Apple is almost entirely driven by their margins when it comes to hardware decisions, and the AMOLED display in the watch was supposed to be fairly expensive. I think the sales are showing the Watch was already on the high side of what people were willing to pay for such a device right now, so they're likely just trying to get the margins where they want or maybe even looking to drop the price to boost adoption.

But with the weird state of OLED, and Apple's talk of it the past several years, seems like either there are still major technical issues (but if that were the case, then I don't see how Samsung and LG could make viable products with it), or there's something else going on.