sickening.
the people who don't come back mutilated or dead are going
to be psychologically screwed up.
the people who don't come back mutilated or dead are going
to be psychologically screwed up.
I understand your point, and yes it has been used in the past by the US govt and is being used now. BUT, these insurgents/terrorists in Iraq are genuine enemies. They are wreaking havoc upon Iraq with no clear goal in mind, killing our troops and their own people with them. I don't need the govt to tell me these are our enemies to know that they are. They're killing our soldiers and trying to disrupt Iraq, it's clear they are not our friends.
If an enemy invaded your country wreaking havoc upon it with no clear goal in mind and no clear reason for invading you wouldn't be their friend either.
Originally posted by: Ozoned
The foul condition you speak of is war. There is actually one going on now, if you haven't heard. The goal of war, in case you did not know is not to die for what you believe in, but rather to make the enemy die for what he believes in.
Some people that are not directly involved in the physical realm of the battlefield tend to support one side or the other of these opposing beliefs, whatever they might be.
To question the commitment of these people by asking them to position themselves on the battlefield and support their views is a valid method.
Being dramatic and conducting personal attacks is not, :roll: But if that is what it takes to make you feel like your view is valid, and it helps you sleep better at night, then, by all means, carry on....
Thats all fine and dandy, but the point is this is an illegal war. It's a criminal action, it was implemented based on lies and the desire for $. It continues to be propagated and justified with lies. The poor souls having to fight have nothing to do with the course of action that was chosen. Heaven help them all. A curse on the monster that sent them there.
ps. any war is a disgrace. killing and murder has been proven time and again to be fruitless. didn't you learn anything in vietnam ?
pps. the only way to stop bigotry and ignorance is to confront it head-on. If you think its fine to endorse genocide than thats your right. But if you do feel as such, you are equally de-based and de-valued.
:beer:
I guess my patriotism for my own country allows me to understand, I think I might be tempted to defend it, if the powers that be made such despicable decisions along the lines that the bush regime has. But its a temptation I would resist, I wouldn't go along happily believing obvious lies and being a mindless automaton, being a broken record for their continued spewage.
Originally posted by: RealityTime
Originally posted by: Ozoned
The foul condition you speak of is war. There is actually one going on now, if you haven't heard. The goal of war, in case you did not know is not to die for what you believe in, but rather to make the enemy die for what he believes in.
Some people that are not directly involved in the physical realm of the battlefield tend to support one side or the other of these opposing beliefs, whatever they might be.
To question the commitment of these people by asking them to position themselves on the battlefield and support their views is a valid method.
Being dramatic and conducting personal attacks is not, :roll: But if that is what it takes to make you feel like your view is valid, and it helps you sleep better at night, then, by all means, carry on....
Thats all fine and dandy, but the point is this is an illegal war. It's a criminal action, it was implemented based on lies and the desire for $. It continues to be propagated and justified with lies. The poor souls having to fight have nothing to do with the course of action that was chosen. Heaven help them all. A curse on the monster that sent them there.
ps. any war is a disgrace. killing and murder has been proven time and again to be fruitless. didn't you learn anything in vietnam ?
pps. the only way to stop bigotry and ignorance is to confront it head-on. If you think its fine to endorse genocide than thats your right. But if you do feel as such, you are equally de-based and de-valued.
:beer:
I guess my patriotism for my own country allows me to understand, I think I might be tempted to defend it, if the powers that be made such despicable decisions along the lines that the bush regime has. But its a temptation I would resist, I wouldn't go along happily believing obvious lies and being a mindless automaton, being a broken record for their continued spewage.
Illegal according to who? The U.N. who has no power to do anything? France, Germany? What are they going to do? It wasn't illegal according us, or the countries that supported the war. What does illegal even mean when you don't even get punished for doing the action?
DashRiprock
Member
- Aug 31, 2001
- 166
- 0
- 76
It means it was illegal and you got away with it. You're a criminal and you got away with a crime. I guess thats what it means. Wake-up call, there is a whole world out there and the usa is only 1/20 of it.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
If an "enemy" invaded my country, I sure as hell wouldn't be blowing up my own people. Sheesh you people are deluded to support them.
CsG
You're deluded to characterize anything other than blindly following Bush as support for the enemy. I'm trying to see this from the point of the Iraqis who make up 95% (according to U.S. figures on the "insurgents" in Fallujah) of the guerillas fighting the occupation.
If this was Afghanistan I would have no problem with just about whatever we did there. Afghanistan was ruled by the Taliban. They harbored al Qaida. They attacked the U.S. on 9/11. Iraq had no connection to those events and, indeed, Bush attacked them based on false claims of a threat from non-existent WMD and connections to terrorists that never existed. If you saw your nation destroyed, and civilians, including women and children killed and maimed by the hundreds of thousands, based on falsehoods you'd react the same way as these Iraqis.
Who says it was illegal? What law or rule says it's illegal? It was NOT illegal, there is no world body that can inforce anything. We, the United States, is the closest thing to a world body governing the world. I wish we could just be isolationist, but decisions made in the past made it so that is no longer possible. Oh, and btw, the UN is a defunct organization as far as I'm concerned. They can't make a decision on anything, won't enforce their own resolutions and most importantly, are extremely corrupt.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Bolded part: Yes, we know you are trying to play apologist for the people who are killing their own people by blowing themselves and others up - not to mention the sabatoge on their own countries infrastructure.
Yes, we also know you are trying to play Saddam apologist by trying to obfuscate or diminish his role in the insecurity of the ME. WMDs or not - Saddam's removal was just.
No, I wouldn't kill my own people if I was an Iraqi. I've already stated such. Destroying their own country and people does not help in the removal of the Coalition forces - it prolongs their stay.
CsG
why couldn't they just chalk it up to colatteral damage as we do, or perhaps as attacking those who support the americans, kinda like how the americans who supported the britishers were deemed just as vile?
We invaded their country and we're blowing up civilians to the tune of 100,000 dead and hundreds of thousands more wounded and maimed for life but CsG refuses to recognize this when it's the U.S. doing it. Only Iraqis blowing up Iraqis counts.
And he calls me delusional. :roll:
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
First off, they are targetting and killing their own people. Second, BOBDN - we've already discussed the 100K figure and it's BS. Third, I unlike you, I realize that people get caught in the crossfire but we are not purposely targetting them as military targets. Yes, Iraqis are killing Iraqis - but you seem to think that it's the US doing it.
Again, keep on being a terrorist apologist if you must...
CsG
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Nope.
What you said would have some merit if their targets weren't their own people and their own infrastructure. Remember, collateral damage is unintended damage - theirs is purposeful destruction and killing. If you liken random bombing and suicide attacks as "collateral damage" then I'm not sure what to say. What was their "intended" target? their goal? To give the terrorist sympathizers something to cheer back here? In that context then - you'd be right.
CsG
yeah bush is targetting and killing his own people too, so haliburton can fill its coffers and the oil will flow. :roll:
like i said, when innocent iraqis are killed, they could chalk it up to collateral damage when their target are american GI's and forces, but when they actually target the iraqis, they could be chalking it up to the attackers as being patriots, or revolutionaries, and the victims as being the british loyalists.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Sure, but is that what they are doing when they blow up oil pipelines or run car bombs into busy streets? No. Is that what they are doing when they fire on us from crowds?
No, their actions are nothing like those of our forefathers and it is disgusting that you or others would insinuate that to be true. We are not Iraq's government they are fighting against. They are fighting against having their own gov't. If these so-called "freedom fighters" were really that - they'd have done so against Saddam(which some tried to do and were destroyed for it - and I'm sad we didn't act at that time)
CsG
well you couldn't really act than as the usa was supplying iraq with weapons and cash :roll: you don't even know your government's history. maybe you should read up on the history of us/iraw relations before you open up and start talking.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
HAhahaha - nice try but it seems you are the one that doesn't understand the history of the situation. But it's nice to see you've hit the point of desperation by trotting out that old tired line.
CsG
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