Muslins-a bad people?

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Hey why don't you move your redneck ass outta whatever hick town you live in and realize that maybe YOU are the one that's uneducated and primitive.

Personal attack!! These Mods are certainly asleep.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. American culture is sick also, have you watched TV lately?

Yeah, and most of those who write, direct, and produce the mess we call TV are voting for Kerry! Some are even stumping for him!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Muslims are some of the most enlightened people that I have met

You must not have met a lot of other people.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah. 9/11 was just a figment of your imagination. Now pay attention to the shiney watch moving back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

So do you think the label terrorist should only be applied to people of Muslim faith?

Additionally, we dealt with McVeigh, we didn't encourage him, clap for him, nor were we cheering his accomplishment.

Christians clapped when they bomb abortion clinics. But hey, they're not terrorists!

I've never heard of any real christians bombing abortion clinics. Those who do that are as resented by Christians as much as the KKK was by good southerners. Nuts are nuts, we just take care of ours.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah. 9/11 was just a figment of your imagination. Now pay attention to the shiney watch moving back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

So do you think the label terrorist should only be applied to people of Muslim faith?

Is it? AFAIK, it's not a label that has ever been applied solely to Muslims. Just because in this day and age Muslims are the primary focus of terrorism it is no indication they are the only ones to which the term is applied.

Additionally, we dealt with McVeigh, we didn't encourage him, clap for him, nor were we cheering his accomplishment.

Christians clapped when they bomb abortion clinics. But hey, they're not terrorists!

Christians clapped when abortion clinics were bombed or doctors killed in cold blood? If so, why do we spend so mcuh time hunting down the jerks that do such things? Where is the big push in the Muslim world to bring in bin Laden? Do you see al Jazeera denouncing him as a criminal, or do they make excuses for his sick behavior instead?

Actually, some of our liberal friends make excuses for his behavior too.

 

[chess9]

Kibbo:

True, dat, but STRUGGLE = STRUGGLE as well.

-Robert

 

[maddogchen]

I don't think some of these terrorists are really muslim.

 

[flawlssdistortn]

Condor, please... I mean c'mon now...

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: shazman

Originally posted by: gutharius
Yeah, I don't see it either. I know there are provisions in the koran for jihad and all but my understanding is that only under certain circumstances to those apply. I am not a muslim so my knowledge in regards to the circumstances are really weak.

Jihad is an integral part of Islam like fasting and prayers but it doesn't mean violence as is usually understood. It means 'struggle' to further the cause of the faith. For me the struggle is having to explain that Islam is not a religion of violence to my non-muslim friends, co-workers, neigbors, etc. For muslims that use Jihad to further their political/personal agendas in the name of Islam is completely wrong. IF you see a muslim that really practices the religion instead of exploiting it, you will see that we just ordinary people like everyone else.

Interseting historical note:
Jihad=struggle
Kampf (as in Mein Kampf) = Strugle

Maybe the extreme interpretations of the word "struggle" in our own culture are not that much more common in thiers.

But Jihad can't be done on the offensive It is a means to defend the ability to pratice your religion. If i'm living all happy in the USA I can't declare a Jihad because my neighbors are Aetheists

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Would any of the Muslims in here care to explain the concept of "greater jihad" and "lesser jihad"?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Condor
Actually, some of our liberal friends make excuses for his behavior too.

Really now... or could it just be your usual lies that spews forth from your mouth?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Would any of the Muslims in here care to explain the concept of "greater jihad" and "lesser jihad"?

"lesser (outer) jihad" ? a military struggle i.e. a holy war
"greater (inner) jihad" ? the struggle of personal self-improvement against the self's base desires

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Would any of the Muslims in here care to explain the concept of "greater jihad" and "lesser jihad"?

"lesser (outer) jihad" ? a military struggle i.e. a holy war
"greater (inner) jihad" ? the struggle of personal self-improvement against the self's base desires

I understand the frequently proffered synopsis of those terms.

Can you provide a bit more depth on them, or at least how you personally view them? Any insight is appreciated.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Would any of the Muslims in here care to explain the concept of "greater jihad" and "lesser jihad"?

"lesser (outer) jihad" ? a military struggle i.e. a holy war
"greater (inner) jihad" ? the struggle of personal self-improvement against the self's base desires

I understand the frequently proffered synopsis of those terms.

Can you provide a bit more depth on them, or at least how you personally view them? Any insight is appreciated.

"Permission to fight is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed..those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause". Muslims hold that an outer jihad can only be declared by a lawful and legal authority who is himself a Muslim. Islamic law also states that such a Jihad may only be carried out against those who are themselves actively oppressing Muslims, or encroaching on lands of Islam."

Here is the problem:

Many Muslim clerics encourage suicide bombing and Jihad against the West, mainly against the USA and Israel. These are mainly Arabs (only 18% of the world's muslims) who believe that such attacks are legitimized by the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. Most of these clerics are either sponsored by the Arab governments, or head extremist groups.

Since terrorist organizations do not constitute any autonomous state or defacto authority, and because targets of jihad can only be recognized military targets, mainstream Islam does not consider terrorism to be any extention of jihad.

The Quran specifically forbids attacking women, children, elderly people, and buildings during any military campaign. In fact the Quran vehemently denounces the killing of any innocent person:

Whosoever killed a person - unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land - it shall be as if he killed all mankind; and whoso saved a life, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. (Surah Al-Ma'idah, Verse 32)

Forced conversion is not permissible according to the laws of Islam. However, a jihad against a non-Muslim state may be seen as justified if that state bans its citizens from converting.


-I got all this from: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Jihad

My personal view: an outer Jihad would be when a large population(nation) declares war on Muslims simply because they are Muslims. A Jihad would be declared to fight the people who are fighting the Muslims simply because of their belief to keep Islam alive. This is not the case anywhere in the world.

Inner Jihahd is a struggle to better yourself.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah. 9/11 was just a figment of your imagination. Now pay attention to the shiney watch moving back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

So do you think the label terrorist should only be applied to people of Muslim faith?

Additionally, we dealt with McVeigh, we didn't encourage him, clap for him, nor were we cheering his accomplishment.

Christians clapped when they bomb abortion clinics. But hey, they're not terrorists!

I've never heard of any real christians bombing abortion clinics. Those who do that are as resented by Christians as much as the KKK was by good southerners. Nuts are nuts, we just take care of ours.

Change Christian to Muslim and the same arguement is made in the Muslim world.

 

[dchakrab]

From an international point of view, a LOT of nations think the invasion of Iraq is a prime example of Christianity being used as a religious argument for terrorism that transcends borders. Bush used the argument that we were fighting against the Muslim terrorists to slaughter thousands in Iraq, and lose a thousand or so of our own troops in the process. Islamic fundamentalists use the argument that the US is a threat to Islam because of our president, and his recent actions in Iraq.

This war was pre-emptive. If Osama Bin Laden said hey, I'm going to bomb the world trade center, and it'll be a pre-emptive strike, because the US is planning to invade the Islamic world for our oil, would he have been justified?

Based on US actions both before and after the Sept. 11 attacks, Islamic fundamentalists have many, many reasons they can point to as supporting this idea of the US being a threat to Islam, and thus justifying what we call a terrorist attack. They don't think they're being terrorists; they think they're fighting to defend their faith, which is under attack. They seem to have a LOT more justification in deeming Bush a terrorist, and a massively successful one, than we ever did in invading Iraq.

-Dave.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

Nice red herring.

Islam is a religion, not a race. The comment above can be applied to Christianity as well and I doubt you'd attempt to typify such a statement as a racist one. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Islam, in and of itself, is "sick." But, please, let's retain a bit of perspective and reason.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Christians clapped when abortion clinics were bombed or doctors killed in cold blood? If so, why do we spend so mcuh time hunting down the jerks that do such things? Where is the big push in the Muslim world to bring in bin Laden? Do you see al Jazeera denouncing him as a criminal, or do they make excuses for his sick behavior instead?

Actually, some of our liberal friends make excuses for his behavior too.

Name one, just one. :|

The only American whom I ever heard make excuses for Osama bin Laden was Jerry Falwell, who tried to shift the blame for 9/11 onto pagans, abortionists, feminists [look out, she's on the rag!], lesbians and gays.

Again , Condor, please back up your offensive troll post with a specific name and quote, or recant it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

Nice red herring follows:

Islam is a religion, not a race. The comment above can be applied to Christianity as well and I doubt you'd attempt to typify such a statement as a racist one. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Islam, in and of itself, is "sick." But, please, let's retain a bit of perspective and reason.

Fixed it for you.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

Nice red herring follows:

Islam is a religion, not a race. The comment above can be applied to Christianity as well and I doubt you'd attempt to typify such a statement as a racist one. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Islam, in and of itself, is "sick." But, please, let's retain a bit of perspective and reason.

Fixed it for you.

Wow! You sure didn't show me. :roll:

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

Nice red herring follows:

Islam is a religion, not a race. The comment above can be applied to Christianity as well and I doubt you'd attempt to typify such a statement as a racist one. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Islam, in and of itself, is "sick." But, please, let's retain a bit of perspective and reason.

Fixed it for you.

Wow! You sure didn't show me. :roll:

You are absolutely right, I didn't show you, you showed yourself.

Perk offered a parallel example of a mindset, you offered the Red Herring.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

Nice red herring follows:

Islam is a religion, not a race. The comment above can be applied to Christianity as well and I doubt you'd attempt to typify such a statement as a racist one. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Islam, in and of itself, is "sick." But, please, let's retain a bit of perspective and reason.

Fixed it for you.

Wow! You sure didn't show me. :roll:

You are absolutely right, I didn't show you, you showed yourself.

Perk offered a parallel example of a mindset, you offered the Red Herring.

So what was he saying then? Racism=Islamic playa hata?

Give me a break with that lame reply. Peknose made a poor analogy. Get over it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Individual muslims are people, people who have hopes and dreams, interests and fears... They're like anyone else (even if they do break out into a chorus of "ooolooolooloo" when someone dies)

Islam as a culture, however, is sick. And wrong. And the world is a LOT better off without it.

Exactly!! It's exactly the same as with those damn Negroes! :roll:

Nice red herring follows:

Islam is a religion, not a race. The comment above can be applied to Christianity as well and I doubt you'd attempt to typify such a statement as a racist one. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Islam, in and of itself, is "sick." But, please, let's retain a bit of perspective and reason.

Fixed it for you.

Wow! You sure didn't show me. :roll:

You are absolutely right, I didn't show you, you showed yourself.

Perk offered a parallel example of a mindset, you offered the Red Herring.

So what was he saying then? Racism=Islamic playa hata?

Give me a break with that lame reply. Peknose made a poor analogy. Get over it.

He made a succinct statement. The reasoning is the same in both situations, the fact they are different situations is totally moot, a Red Herring.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: sandorski
He made a succinct statement. The reasoning is the same in both situations, the fact they are different situations is totally moot, a Red Herring.

Yes, he made a succinct analogy. However, succinct doesn't imply valid and his analogy was not valid or correct.

A parallel, or equivalent analogy, was exactly as I defined in my reply - a comparison with the Christian religion. Sorry, but criticizing religion, even as gauchely as it was done, is not the same as making a racist comment no matter how you slice and dice it.

I'm not even sure why I have to spell this out for anyone as it should be clearly evident to all.