Musk complains about Cali cutting solar power incentives

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
31,240
4,748
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Really I think the question should be why we aren't extending the tax credit for domestically produced EVs and building of charging stations. We need to continue to accelerate the electrification of the transportation fleet.
I wonder where all the new electric generation will come from to power such a fleet.
Needs to be done, but it is a truly herculean task. Needs a concerted effort and national resolve to see accomplished.
Looking at Congress.... oh boy. Our ability to enact change in a smart and strategic way is in danger.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
40,562
19,398
136
I wonder where all the new electric generation will come from to power such a fleet.
Needs to be done, but it is a truly herculean task. Needs a concerted effort and national resolve to see accomplished.
Looking at Congress.... oh boy. Our ability to enact change in a smart and strategic way is in danger.
The great repowering is already underway and we haven't even scratched the surface of enormous resources like offshore wind (though that's coming very soon). Interior's leasing activity is picking up speed.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
23,918
7,082
136
Aww. Poor Muskie. I’m sure his newly adopted state of Texas will get right on those Solar incentives because they love him so much. Lol.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,058
4,824
126
Anybody who calls out on or also notices Elon's hypocrisy on major issues just gets called as being a 'poor'
One of the greatest discoveries of modern science took place in the field of psychology,in my opinion, even if some people have doubtless been aware of it forever, and that discovery is the principle of psychological projection. It supreme valuable lies in its effectiveness as a means for self diagnosis.

It is typical of a competative capitalist culture like the one we live in here in the US for people to have been shamed for being poor. So many idiots imagine that if they have money that makes they OK people is some magical way. People are badly damaged with it comes to any real sense of self respect and they want to blame others for their own suffering. This always leads to the poor hating the rich and the rich hating the poor.

I am going to tell you, MrSquished and others full of similar bitterness, that while you may be poor in the ordinary sense of the word, there is a treasure hidden within you of priceless value. Knowing that, if you could only believe it true, I think, would help you to be less bitter and less in need to dump on people.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
11,576
5,264
136
The great repowering is already underway and we haven't even scratched the surface of enormous resources like offshore wind (though that's coming very soon). Interior's leasing activity is picking up speed.
Yes, just scratching the surface, which, to me, is a bit worrying. Coal and Natural gas consumption dipped slightly due to the economic decline due to Covid-19 leading to, what appears to be, more significant increases in total energy share by renewables according to the IEA. As economic activity continues to increase and the supply problems lessen in coal and natural gas, it won't look great for the next couple of years.

From recent content, there are worrying trends in Lithium productions as well. Significant problems in mining and production of Lithium Carbonate (it typically takes about 1 year to full precipitate out and dry). Expansion is limited around the richest deposits due to land availability combined with the environmental problems of cross-contamination, fresh water usage and disposal of waste salts. Logically speaking, Lithium should be reserved for mobile applications, which it's high energy density (per kg) is most important. Grid storage needs to move to less efficient systems which are too heavy for mobile applications. Hopefully, with the current massive investments in battery technology, better solutions will be found soon.

Not trying to be too pessimistic, but there are serious problems facing first world countries - never mind the current rise of developing nations. It's a massive undertaking and the recent climate summit made it obvious that national priorities and policies are generally falling well short of the necessary rate of change. We are going to go above the 1.5C target, and I don't think there is a way to stop that. We are already moving at +0.55C/decade in much of the northern hemisphere.
 
Dec 10, 2005
21,952
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Really I think the question should be why we aren't extending the tax credit for domestically produced EVs and building of charging stations. We need to continue to accelerate the electrification of the transportation fleet
There is merit to helping replace ICE vehicles with EVs, but we shouldn't be dumping our hopes on EVs alone, because that would be a disaster. And also, most of the ev subsidy is going to very well off people that probably don't really need a subsidy.

We need to look at where we can have the biggest impact across society, and that means more efficient housing in cities (densification by building everything from duplexes to more 5-over-1s, using heat pumps, etc...), better mass transit (feeder bus routes, bus lanes, better service to encourage use, electrification of existing rail routes), better building of communities - mixed residential and commercial, encouraging more walking and biking by providing better local infrastructure, discouraging driving in general, laying more transmission lines to bring renewable energy from areas where it's produced to where it's needed...
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
40,562
19,398
136
There is merit to helping replace ICE vehicles with EVs, but we shouldn't be dumping our hopes on EVs alone, because that would be a disaster. And also, most of the ev subsidy is going to very well off people that probably don't really need a subsidy.

We need to look at where we can have the biggest impact across society, and that means more efficient housing in cities (densification by building everything from duplexes to more 5-over-1s, using heat pumps, etc...), better mass transit (feeder bus routes, bus lanes, better service to encourage use, electrification of existing rail routes), better building of communities - mixed residential and commercial, encouraging more walking and biking by providing better local infrastructure, discouraging driving in general, laying more transmission lines to bring renewable energy from areas where it's produced to where it's needed...
On the EV front they certainly shouldn't be viewed as a cure all. Though if/when bidirectional charging becomes more of a thing the national EV fleet could do double duty as valuable storage for renewables since cars spend most of there lives parked. If I've got a car with say a 70kWh battery parked in my driveway hooked up to the grid I'd certainly be willing to float my local utility say 20% of its capacity for a fee.
 
Dec 10, 2005
21,952
3,998
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On the EV front they certainly shouldn't be viewed as a cure all. Though if/when bidirectional charging becomes more of a thing the national EV fleet could do double duty as valuable storage for renewables since cars spend most of there lives parked. If I've got a car with say a 70kWh battery parked in my driveway hooked up to the grid I'd certainly be willing to float my local utility say 20% of its capacity for a fee.
Yes, that would be a good thing as far as energy storage. I just think many people have a very narrow focus on personal automobiles and can only imagine America as some giant suburban wasteland that will always require at least one vehicle (preferably of giant proportions for the yearly plywood trip) per adult to get around.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
40,562
19,398
136
Yes, that would be a good thing as far as energy storage. I just think many people have a very narrow focus on personal automobiles and can only imagine America as some giant suburban wasteland that will always require at least one vehicle (preferably of giant proportions for the yearly plywood trip) per adult to get around.
Yep that's fair. Land use is one of those things that melts peoples brains though compared to like tax credits for heat pumps or ebikes.

Cali at least has been making steady if modest improvements in state law to build more dense housing. Certainly can't say even that much for a lot of other sates. The NIMBYism that plagued the coasts is showing up in TX now as existing multifamily zoned land is exhausted and locals increasingly fight density everywhere.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,199
4,421
136
There is merit to helping replace ICE vehicles with EVs, but we shouldn't be dumping our hopes on EVs alone, because that would be a disaster. And also, most of the ev subsidy is going to very well off people that probably don't really need a subsidy.

We need to look at where we can have the biggest impact across society, and that means more efficient housing in cities (densification by building everything from duplexes to more 5-over-1s, using heat pumps, etc...), better mass transit (feeder bus routes, bus lanes, better service to encourage use, electrification of existing rail routes), better building of communities - mixed residential and commercial, encouraging more walking and biking by providing better local infrastructure, discouraging driving in general, laying more transmission lines to bring renewable energy from areas where it's produced to where it's needed...
I would agree on all those things as well. If I was king, I would be investing heavily into electrification of not just the transportation fleet, but also heavily into buildings and infrastructure as well.

Personally, I have a heat pump, induction stove, elec water heater, and green energy service provider, and they work fantastically well, and superior to when I had FF (eg gas) service.

There will always be a role for FF simply due to the energy density of combustible fuel, the necessary uses are far more limited than what we use now.

It's a tragedy that more of this funding and strategic pivot couldn't be completed by Congress. Instead we'll dink around with it, meanwhile pouring hundreds of billions into weapon systems we don't need while the nation's competitiveness, infrastructure maturity and economic efficiency continue to erode.

Lots of missed domestic jobs building this as well.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
11,576
5,264
136
And research into alternative energy storage, advancements of batteries etc.
There is a lot of public and private money going into various forms of battery storage world wide. The market potential is there to support huge investments from battery manufacturers. Public funding goes into getting new technologies to the prototype stage. That's the least of our problems, honestly.

There have been some promising developments in solid state batteries, but getting those up to high volume manufacturing (HVM), is an enormous challenge. At the current low volume production levels, the prices are high given the lack of an economy of scale.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
19,386
8,743
136
There is a lot of public and private money going into various forms of battery storage world wide. The market potential is there to support huge investments from battery manufacturers. Public funding goes into getting new technologies to the prototype stage. That's the least of our problems, honestly.

There have been some promising developments in solid state batteries, but getting those up to high volume manufacturing (HVM), is an enormous challenge. At the current low volume production levels, the prices are high given the lack of an economy of scale.
Well, something to store the solar for when its dark and we're set, we can live off solar alone.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,058
4,824
126
Well, something to store the solar for when its dark and we're set, we can live off solar alone.
Indeed, but you will find article after article on Google News about how only nuclear can really save us and how breakthroughs in fission make it only that little bit farther away, death merchants propagandizing the public's brains with how great an idea it is to make deadly poisons that can kill for thousands of years, most of which so far made has never been safely stored. But tomorrow's humanity will be different because instead of crapping all over the earth, they will spend trillions of flushing and it's all going to be safely stored in your distant neighbor's back yard because you are just that much more important and sweet.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,927
12,015
136
Musk, who said he prefers to stay out of politics when asked about Texas's draconian abortion laws, is now directly calling for someone to be voted out of office in Cali.

As we already knew he is too much of a hypocrite to question his Texas overlords now that he moved his company there when it comes to a fundamental human right, but he sure ain't too slow on the draw when it's to criticize shit he don't like elsewhere.

 

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