Muscle imbalance (I think)

[[DHT]Osiris]

Curious if anyone's familiar with this:

I've long dealt with what I believe to be muscle imbalance, but not in the way I tend to see referenced online. This isn't associated with an actual desire to work a specific muscle from a muscle group, but seemingly from how my brain activates muscles as part of normal movements.

For example: I've always had very strong calves but my other leg muscles have suffered (I was also rather overweight through much of my youth). After a long period I discovered I walk/run by pushing off with the ball of my foot, and I virtually never engaged other muscles unless it was required to lift the leg itself or bring it to the ground faster than gravity. I've learned to an extent to force myself to engage other muscles and I actively work them on isolated workouts, but even with say, a squat, I can either use my quads or my butt, not both.

As another: as a youth and early in my military career, bench press and push-up movements were almost exclusively done with triceps. I always lagged behind my peers on quantity/lift potential but I had overdeveloped triceps, later realized everyone else uses chest and tris, I do better now that I've worked my chest more, but I still have to consciously engage it, and I still can only use one or the other.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any recommendations?

 

[XcPNehVYlE4A3C]

Thats kind of understandable. I think youre in your own head too much. Focus on and visualize the movement completing and not so much the individual muscles working.

This is why lately I prefer mobility and movement exercises like clubs and rope flow and things because you focus on performing a movement as opposed to an isolated muscle group.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You would benefit from seeing someone with a solid background in kinesiology.

Thats kind of understandable. I think youre in your own head too much. Focus on and visualize the movement completing and not so much the individual muscles working.

This is why lately I prefer mobility and movement exercises like clubs and rope flow and things because you focus on performing a movement as opposed to an isolated muscle group.

Based on my anecdotal life's experience I agree with you to an extent. But activating the correct muscle groups is important/essential to weightlifting and certain athletic disciplines. Doing them incorrectly can lead to injury. And as OP points out, can impede or stall your progress.

But like yourself, I get far more enjoyment from engaging my entire body in the activity. Almost 45 years of martial arts and combat sports has been all about mobility, movement, and biomechanical proficiency.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I've heard that the best way to activate most muscle groups is swimming. Not a swimmer myself but the Australian cricket fast bowler Dennis Lillee swore by it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Thats kind of understandable. I think youre in your own head too much. Focus on and visualize the movement completing and not so much the individual muscles working.

This is why lately I prefer mobility and movement exercises like clubs and rope flow and things because you focus on performing a movement as opposed to an isolated muscle group.

I might be in my head too much but this unfortunately isn't really something I ever thought about until recently. My normal body movements, or at that what I thought were normal, occurred until I was in my 30s basically. I didn't think about not engaging pectorals in pushups for example, I just never did. Now I have to think about doing it to make sure I do. I do agree that doing more varied exercises that mandate different muscle usage just to perform the task is preferable and I've been working on that too, just always found it strange how 'conscious' I had to be about muscle engagement that others find natural.

 

[deadlyapp]

I agree with others, that you are probably in your head a bit much. Such activation domination is fairly normal, and as you note, you really have to work at it to specify the muscle groups. Many people are more quad dominant in a squat, vs glute dominant, and you can train this a bit by changing the bar location, the foot position, the tempo, etc.

With that said, unless you are a body builder and need to focus attention on specific muscles, I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't think the vast majority of people are conscious of the muscle groups they are using. They do what is easiest to move the weight from point A to point B, whatever the muscle is. This is why you will find people with bicep dominance vs back dominance (pull ups), tricep dominance vs pectoral (push ups), and the glute / quad dominance you already noted.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I agree with others, that you are probably in your head a bit much. Such activation domination is fairly normal, and as you note, you really have to work at it to specify the muscle groups. Many people are more quad dominant in a squat, vs glute dominant, and you can train this a bit by changing the bar location, the foot position, the tempo, etc.

With that said, unless you are a body builder and need to focus attention on specific muscles, I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't think the vast majority of people are conscious of the muscle groups they are using. They do what is easiest to move the weight from point A to point B, whatever the muscle is. This is why you will find people with bicep dominance vs back dominance (pull ups), tricep dominance vs pectoral (push ups), and the glute / quad dominance you already noted.

Thanks for the comment. I would normally agree with you but I've been experiencing significant issues as a result of this muscle dominance, namely in my knees. Doc said the tendon pain I have is due to a lack of strength in the quad, so I'm trying to find ways to alleviate that, as well as hedge myself against other kinds of pain/injuries from similar imbalances. I hope this is something I don't have to deal with otherwise but right now it's a pain in my (technically not) rear.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I've been experiencing significant issues as a result of this muscle dominance, namely in my knees.

A guy in my office was having knee issues. After consulting several medical professionals (most of whom recommended surgery), he found a kind lady doctor who told him to use knee braces. I think he used something like this:



Haven't heard him complain since.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

A guy in my office was having knee issues. After consulting several medical professionals (most of whom recommended surgery), he found a kind lady doctor who told him to use knee braces. I think he used something like this:

View attachment 116430

Haven't heard him complain since.

I've got one that crosses the tendon under the knee which does actually help the symptoms, but it obviously does nothing to fix the problem.

I do lower body/quad work every other day right now, it feels much better when I can get out and walk a couple miles but the weather is not favorable right now.

 

[purbeast0]

The tricep/chest ratio for bench press is completely based on where your grip is. The closer your hands are, the more triceps. As you start to move your grip wider, it moves more towards chest and less triceps. The goal is to find what works best for you because if you go too wide, then you can start to risk shoulder injury.

As for your calves being big, I think you being overweight can explain that as a possible development reason. You had to use them a lot when walking. Calves are also one of those muscles that are SUPER genetically dependent. I personally simply cannot develop large calves no matter how much I work them out. Like they just won't ball up and pop like other people. On the flip side I know a few buddies who have huge calves and don't even work out.

If you have knee issues I would highly recommend using knee wraps when you do heavy push leg exercises like leg press or squats. They were game changing to me after having nagging knee injuries and I used to just lift through them.

The one thing i've learned as I've gotten older when it comes to lifting is to take as many precautions as possible. When I do legs I am wrapping my knees up and have a belt on. And I very rarely have any pain afterwards whereas I used to. The past year or so I have also started to do my exercises in a more controlled manner and I go down slower on my reps and explode up. I've had to leave my ego at the door and drop weight in basically every exercise, but I've also built up strength since I've done that and have not had any additional nagging injuries that I would get in the past.

I am 43 years old and do not look like your typical 43 year old body wise. I am one of the stronger people in my gym. I just wish I knew what I know now when I was 19 and started working out, because I wouldn't have some of the chronic shoulder/back pain that I have now.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The tricep/chest ratio for bench press is completely based on where your grip is. The closer your hands are, the more triceps. As you start to move your grip wider, it moves more towards chest and less triceps. The goal is to find what works best for you because if you go too wide, then you can start to risk shoulder injury.

Not for me. Even with a very wide grip or push-up stance, I exclusively use triceps unless I consciously squeeze chest.

As for your calves being big, I think you being overweight can explain that as a possible development reason. You had to use them a lot when walking. Calves are also one of those muscles that are SUPER genetically dependent. I personally simply cannot develop large calves no matter how much I work them out. Like they just won't ball up and pop like other people. On the flip side I know a few buddies who have huge calves and don't even work out.

Understood. Everyone tells me I have superhero calves, not just big but toned, wish the rest was like that haha.

The one thing i've learned as I've gotten older when it comes to lifting is to take as many precautions as possible. When I do legs I am wrapping my knees up and have a belt on. And I very rarely have any pain afterwards whereas I used to.

Fwiw I usually feel better after lifting than if I don't. My issues tend to come up with deep squats (otherwise known as 'getting on the ground for some dumb reason), but post workout they feel better.

I just wish I knew what I know now when I was 19 and started working out, because I wouldn't have some of the chronic shoulder/back pain that I have now.

I hear that!

 

[repoman0]

Not for me. Even with a very wide grip or push-up stance, I exclusively use triceps unless I consciously squeeze chest.

Maybe a video would help here, but this can’t be true just based on physics. Think about the load path — if you were just using your triceps with a wide grip, the bar wouldn’t go anywhere. Your chest muscles need to be pulling inward to actually create upward force.

If your form is solid, kinematics ensures that your muscles work appropriately together. This can take careful attention and possibly studying videos of your lifting.

I thought I had given myself back issues due to heavy squats and deadlifts for the longest time, and thought my form was perfected. I realized over the past few years that I’d developed a back muscle imbalance — my lower right back muscle was larger and stronger than the left because I unwittingly favored my right leg doing squats. Undoing that took a lot of conscious effort to actually perfect my form, and also to get rid of the stupid ego and lower the weight on the bar.

 

[purbeast0]

Not for me. Even with a very wide grip or push-up stance, I exclusively use triceps unless I consciously squeeze chest.

I don't know what pushup stance means, because the same logic follows pushups, but I agree with @repoman0 it just doesn't make sense due to the way our bodies are designed. The wider the grip, the less your triceps actually fire and activate. Just like with pushups, the wider your grip, the less tricep you are activating (compared to chest). With pushups as well, depending on where you align your hands to your chest, you will use more/less shoulders.

And I am assuming we are talking about barbell bench press, not dumbell, because many people do dumbell wrong which DOES activate more tricep than it should.

A video of what you are doing would be useful though as mentioned.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Maybe a video would help here, but this can’t be true just based on physics. Think about the load path — if you were just using your triceps with a wide grip, the bar wouldn’t go anywhere. Your chest muscles need to be pulling inward to actually create upward force.

I don't know what pushup stance means, because the same logic follows pushups, but I agree with @repoman0 it just doesn't make sense due to the way our bodies are designed. The wider the grip, the less your triceps actually fire and activate. Just like with pushups, the wider your grip, the less tricep you are activating (compared to chest). With pushups as well, depending on where you align your hands to your chest, you will use more/less shoulders.

And I am assuming we are talking about barbell bench press, not dumbell, because many people do dumbell wrong which DOES activate more tricep than it should.

A video of what you are doing would be useful though as mentioned.

I don't actively use barbells anymore, but when I did this would occur... Actual pushups are more relevant to me now, since I did a crapload of them in the military and I still do them semi regularly as part of my normal workout routine.

Basically, unless my barbell grip or push-up stance (think triangle push-up vs shoulder-width, elbows out vs shoulder width, elbows in) were absurdly wide, my upper body's normal mechanics were to push outward (straighten the elbow by pulling the forearm straight) with triceps, not draw elbows inward with pecs. I did this for years as a youth with normally stanced barbell bench presses as well as inclined presses.

Imagine the muscle activation doing a reverse tricep extension (as below) but now rotate the elbows out, and extend the arm forward instead of behind... Resistance comes from gravity pulling down.

Yes, it's illogical and mechanically nonsensical, and it's why I had such a hard time keeping up with peers as a kid. It was great fun embarrassing everyone on the calf incline though, 1,000lbs was as high as it went and I always used that setting. My leg extensions and leg curls were always crap however.


Edit: reading more, most use close-grip bench pressing for tricep work. It doesn't make a difference to my brain I guess as to which grip I'm using, it's just natural to only just triceps.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm not going to pretend to lie, I really didn't understand any of what you are saying about your form lol. I tried reading it multiple times and I just couldn't really follow. Even that graphic did not help much, sorry.

Also, the wider your grip, the harder it is to flare your elbows out, just like from a mechanical point of view, if you are using a barbell.

You say you don't use barbell anymore though and pushups better suit you - do you do dumbell at all? Or strictly pushups? I guess if you aren't doing any kind of bench pressing then the initial comments about your bench form doesn't really matter anymore since it was just something you used to do.

 

[deadlyapp]

Thanks for the comment. I would normally agree with you but I've been experiencing significant issues as a result of this muscle dominance, namely in my knees. Doc said the tendon pain I have is due to a lack of strength in the quad, so I'm trying to find ways to alleviate that, as well as hedge myself against other kinds of pain/injuries from similar imbalances. I hope this is something I don't have to deal with otherwise but right now it's a pain in my (technically not) rear.

Look up knees over toes guy. That's what you need to help your knee pain.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm not going to pretend to lie, I really didn't understand any of what you are saying about your form lol. I tried reading it multiple times and I just couldn't really follow. Even that graphic did not help much, sorry.

Also, the wider your grip, the harder it is to flare your elbows out, just like from a mechanical point of view, if you are using a barbell.

You say you don't use barbell anymore though and pushups better suit you - do you do dumbell at all? Or strictly pushups? I guess if you aren't doing any kind of bench pressing then the initial comments about your bench form doesn't really matter anymore since it was just something you used to do.

Sorry, it probably made more sense in my head than how I typed it. Suffice to say that unless it's mechanically impossible, my body trends so far into using specific muscles that it will not use others that it should, namely tris over chest for arm extension, and calf over quad/glute for walking. Even when I was jogging/running I just bounced off my calves and used my hip flexors to swing my leg up, unless I had some actual speed needed.

I do dumbbells a fair bit now for basically whole body work. And yeah the initial comments were just for example purposes to try to explain the situation, that's all.

Based on the comments and difficulties with communicating I'm guessing the answer to my original question is roughly 'no, other people don't experience this' lol

Look up knees over toes guy. That's what you need to help your knee pain.

I will!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Based on the comments and difficulties with communicating I'm guessing the answer to my original question is roughly 'no, other people don't experience this' lol

Other people do but they usually think in terms of "oh I can't do this" instead of thinking "why can't I do this?" and you are asking the right question and trying to get to the bottom of it which is actually a good indication that you don't take your brain for granted. It's there and using it is meant to help you get more out of life so that's what you are doing. Unfortunately, many people aren't like that so maybe that's why you are feeling like you are the odd one out.

There was a well built guy in my office who just happened to be that way naturally (he said it was because he was raised on fresh cow's milk as a child instead of the market variety). He had no strict dietary requirements. Ate anything and everything. Smoked a lot. Wouldn't put on weight and just looked like a movie star. Despite his great body, he couldn't do push ups. He never bothered to understand why and my brain would hurt from trying to understand how can this be possible. But reading about your issue, I guess I can somewhat understand now. Maybe he never tried long enough to figure out which muscle or groups of muscles he needed to engage to do push ups successfully.

Myself, I can do 25 on a good day but my shoulder and clavicle muscles are crap so I have to stop when they start hurting. A friend I used to live with in my college years who would carry a CRT monitor in one hand like it was nothing, could go up to 80 but his eyes would go all red like all his blood vessels popped or something.