Muscle Building for the Ecto/Mesomorph

[marsbound2024]

Hey guys, I've been working out for a while and although I have a toned body, I am not seeing the results I have been wanting. My arms are still probably the smallest parts of my body. However, I definitely have the features that support a mesomorph build. However I think I am in between ectomorph and mesomorph (skinny and athletic). I have relatively broad shoulders, developed pectoral muscles, and overall it is rather easy for me to retain a semi-muscular look even if I haven't been working out.

I have been doing a good bit of upper-body workouts while trying to eat healthy carbs and protein-based foods. However, I am not super experienced on all the associated workouts for really building muscle for my arms: namely triceps and forearms. My biceps are actually quite well developed and people are surprised when I show them, haha (common joke is: "That's not a muscle, it's a tumor!").

What recommendations do you all have to ensure I gain the most muscle mass I can for my upper body--arms in particular? Particular exercise regimens and diet you have recommendations for?

Also, sadly, due to my constant sitting down (work-related) and somewhat poor posture I have started to lose abdominal definition. I need to lose what very little fat I have in that region (I actually think I have a little bit there now) and regain the tone I once had. From what I've read and heard, situps and crunches are bad for the back. What do you recommend for abdominal workouts? Vertical leg crunch? Perhaps I just need to ride a bike more often.

 

[Whisper]

I've never had back problems with crunches; I just make sure to limit the range of motion so as not to begin involving too many non-abdominal muscles.

As for gaining size in your arms...honestly, as you'll probably hear, the best way to do that is to 1) squat (assuming you don't already), and 2) eat more. You can adjust your workouts to better induce hypertrophy, but ultimately, if you aren't taking in more calories than you're burning, you're not going to gain any size for the most part. Compound lifts in general are going to stimulate the most growth, which is why squats are always recommended; your chest and back exercises (e.g., presses and rows) will also significantly hit your triceps and biceps. Because of that, from what I know (and I'm no expert), there isn't a need to devote a huge amount of time to only the muscle groups of your arms...unless you're going for more of a bodybuilding routine, and/or you have specific goals in mind.

For targeting triceps specifically, here are a few ideas--skullcrushers (flat, incline, and/or decline), close-grip bench press, kickbacks, dips, overhead extensions, and cable pushdowns. For forearms, I usually add in wrist curls. Although exercises such as shrugs, especially using dumbbells (and WITHOUT wraps/straps), can be great for increasing grip strength. You can also wrap towels around dumbbell handles when doing curls, shrugs, etc.; the increased diameter makes them harder to hold onto, and thereby trains your grip as well.

 

[BlackTigers]

Triceps: Skull crushers, close grip bench press, over head DB extensions, push downs, dips (stay vertical to target tricep), overhead rope pulls.

Forearms: Bar hangs, farmers walks, wrist curls, hammer curls, static dead lift holds (I recommend doing a rack pull so your ROM is decreased and weight is increased). Also, as Whisper stated, I tend to wrap towels around a lot of things now to increase the work my forearms have to do. If your gym has one of the fat bars, use it.

Abs: Hanging leg raises (knee raises if you dont have the core strength), decline situps with weight (above the head), leg raises with a plate on the shins, and I prefer reverse crunches to regular crunches. I also don't really work my obliques, I don't want a bigger waist.

As far as the body type, you're a hard gainer haha. What do your daily macros look like? If you really are a hard gainer, I'd assume you want to eat about 1.5g protein per pound of LBM, or somewhere close to it, and make sure to keep your calories up.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Hey guys, I've been working out for a while and although I have a toned body, I am not seeing the results I have been wanting. My arms are still probably the smallest parts of my body. However, I definitely have the features that support a mesomorph build. However I think I am in between ectomorph and mesomorph (skinny and athletic). I have relatively broad shoulders, developed pectoral muscles, and overall it is rather easy for me to retain a semi-muscular look even if I haven't been working out.

I have been doing a good bit of upper-body workouts while trying to eat healthy carbs and protein-based foods. However, I am not super experienced on all the associated workouts for really building muscle for my arms: namely triceps and forearms. My biceps are actually quite well developed and people are surprised when I show them, haha (common joke is: "That's not a muscle, it's a tumor!").

What recommendations do you all have to ensure I gain the most muscle mass I can for my upper body--arms in particular? Particular exercise regimens and diet you have recommendations for?

Also, sadly, due to my constant sitting down (work-related) and somewhat poor posture I have started to lose abdominal definition. I need to lose what very little fat I have in that region (I actually think I have a little bit there now) and regain the tone I once had. From what I've read and heard, situps and crunches are bad for the back. What do you recommend for abdominal workouts? Vertical leg crunch? Perhaps I just need to ride a bike more often.

You can't just work out for your arms. That's just silly. Your legs hold nearly half your mass. Have you ever seen the guy with huge arms and tiny legs? Do you wanna be him?

Oh a more serious note, any real training program will improve your shape. Doing bench press, shoulder press, weighted pullups, and rows will dramatically improve your strength. You can also add some accessory lifts like tricep extensions, dips, and bicep curls to isolate the muscle groups you want to go. On top of that, you've got to eat more to gain size. If you don't eat enough, nothing will change.

On top of that, ab exercises won't reduce your belly fat. You cannot spot reduce fat. You have to decrease overall body fat percentage to decrease the fat at your belly. In order to do that, you have to go through a cutting phase in a caloric deficit. You can refer to the fat loss sticky at the top of the forums for more detail on that.

So you have a dilemma. You want a bigger upper body, but want to lose fat. One requires a caloric surplus, one requires a caloric deficit. You're going to have to choose which one you want to do.

 

[BlackTigers]

To add to the above, it is possible to reduce the appearance of fat, that is; make it look like you have less while maintaining what you actually have.

This is done by adding muscle. Your body weight will rise, but your body fat percentage will lower as you are adding lean mass.

This is the hardest way to accomplish a goal, but it works for many. This is known as a clean bulk, and requires basically a cutting diet, but with a caloric surplus, if that makes sense.

This is probably what the OP is looking to do, but to do it this way takes a while, just like a bulk/cut take a while too.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

To add to the above, it is possible to reduce the appearance of fat, that is; make it look like you have less while maintaining what you actually have.

This is done by adding muscle. Your body weight will rise, but your body fat percentage will lower as you are adding lean mass.

This is the hardest way to accomplish a goal, but it works for many. This is known as a clean bulk, and requires basically a cutting diet, but with a caloric surplus, if that makes sense.

This is probably what the OP is looking to do, but to do it this way takes a while, just like a bulk/cut take a while too.

A clean bulk doesn't have anything to do with "a cutting diet, but with a caloric surplus." Typically, a clean bulk utilizes only a minor caloric surplus. Because the body is stressed under load, the majority of the caloric surplus will aid the formation of lean muscle. It takes a lot longer to gain any significant weight. I believe we calculated it here before and it was more timely to have a bulk and cut cycle.

 

[darkxshade]

Your legs hold nearly half your mass. Have you ever seen the guy with huge arms and tiny legs? Do you wanna be him?

What? Popeye is awesome.

 

[Deeko]

In my experience the bulk & cut works signficantly better than any effort at a "clean bulk"

 

[MJinZ]

Hey guys, I've been working out for a while and although I have a toned body, I am not seeing the results I have been wanting. My arms are still probably the smallest parts of my body. However, I definitely have the features that support a mesomorph build. However I think I am in between ectomorph and mesomorph (skinny and athletic). I have relatively broad shoulders, developed pectoral muscles, and overall it is rather easy for me to retain a semi-muscular look even if I haven't been working out.

I have been doing a good bit of upper-body workouts while trying to eat healthy carbs and protein-based foods. However, I am not super experienced on all the associated workouts for really building muscle for my arms: namely triceps and forearms. My biceps are actually quite well developed and people are surprised when I show them, haha (common joke is: "That's not a muscle, it's a tumor!").

What recommendations do you all have to ensure I gain the most muscle mass I can for my upper body--arms in particular? Particular exercise regimens and diet you have recommendations for?

Also, sadly, due to my constant sitting down (work-related) and somewhat poor posture I have started to lose abdominal definition. I need to lose what very little fat I have in that region (I actually think I have a little bit there now) and regain the tone I once had. From what I've read and heard, situps and crunches are bad for the back. What do you recommend for abdominal workouts? Vertical leg crunch? Perhaps I just need to ride a bike more often.

Eating

 

[brikis98]

1. To gain mass, you have to lift heavy and eat big. If you aren't gaining mass, you aren't eating enough. GOMAD is very effective for those that struggle to gain weight.

2. Training solely your upper body is pretty dumb. The biggest/strongest muscles are in the lower body and working on them (squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc) would benefit you in every conceivable sense: you'd build functional strength, gain more mass, build a more balanced physique and so on.

3. You cannot spot reduce: that is, you cannot force your body to lose fat in one specific spot, such as your stomach. All you can do is create the conditions for weight loss (see the fat loss sticky) and your body will decide where the fat comes from. Usually, you'll lose fat evenly from all over your body, but most people have "trouble spots" that hold onto more fat (stomach & love handles for most guys, butt + thighs for most girls). Nothing you can do about it except continue to lose fat and once your body fat percentage gets low enough, the trouble spots will slim down too. So, to reiterate: doing a million crunches or sit-ups will not get rid of the layer of fat on top of your abs.

 

[MJinZ]

1. To gain mass, you have to lift heavy and eat big. If you aren't gaining mass, you aren't eating enough. GOMAD is very effective for those that struggle to gain weight.

2. Training solely your upper body is pretty dumb. The biggest/strongest muscles are in the lower body and working on them (squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc) would benefit you in every conceivable sense: you'd build functional strength, gain more mass, build a more balanced physique and so on.

3. You cannot spot reduce: that is, you cannot force your body to lose fat in one specific spot, such as your stomach. All you can do is create the conditions for weight loss (see the fat loss sticky) and your body will decide where the fat comes from. Usually, you'll lose fat evenly from all over your body, but most people have "trouble spots" that hold onto more fat (stomach & love handles for most guys, butt + thighs for most girls). Nothing you can do about it except continue to lose fat and once your body fat percentage gets low enough, the trouble spots will slim down too. So, to reiterate: doing a million crunches or sit-ups will not get rid of the layer of fat on top of your abs.

1) Eat Chicken

2) Don't be a Chicken Legs

3) Plastic Surgery

 

[marsbound2024]

Thanks for the tips guys. My lower body is actually fine. I don't have skinny legs really. My upper body is just what needs work to get everything to the proportionate level I would like.

Oh and about eating, yes it is something that I need to do more of. I actually have a problem with eating somewhat, as in I can't eat a whole lot. Instead, I think it might be best to eat as much as I can in as many meals as I can throughout the day (versus eating huge meals).

 

[Whisper]

A clean bulk doesn't have anything to do with "a cutting diet, but with a caloric surplus." Typically, a clean bulk utilizes only a minor caloric surplus. Because the body is stressed under load, the majority of the caloric surplus will aid the formation of lean muscle. It takes a lot longer to gain any significant weight. I believe we calculated it here before and it was more timely to have a bulk and cut cycle.

I "clean bulked" (in a very minor sense of the phrase) for the first three or four years that I worked out, and again maybe two or so years ago. Just to give an idea of how truly slow the progress can be: my weight before working out (10.5 years ago) was 150 lbs, I now weigh 170 lbs, and the most I've ever weighed is 175 lbs.

In other words, if you want to gain any significant amount of size in a humane amount of time, do not clean bulk.

 

[marsbound2024]

I think I'll try that GOMAD thing. Looks promising since I have problems eating enough.

 

[BlackTigers]

I think I'll try that GOMAD thing. Looks promising since I have problems eating enough.

great idea

 

[marsbound2024]

great idea

By the way, my protein intake is probably about 50-60 grams a day. Perhaps not enough. Like I said, I have trouble eating a lot of solid foods. This is why I do believe GOMAD will help.

I am going to start with a few glasses of milk a day for a few days then try to go up from there and follow that schedule (1/4 gallon then 1/3 then 1/2 then 3/4 then a gallon).

Also, I'll be honest, my daily caloric intake isn't much. Maybe 1500 calories a day.

 

[brikis98]

By the way, my protein intake is probably about 50-60 grams a day. Perhaps not enough. Like I said, I have trouble eating a lot of solid foods. This is why I do believe GOMAD will help.

I am going to start with a few glasses of milk a day for a few days then try to go up from there and follow that schedule (1/4 gallon then 1/3 then 1/2 then 3/4 then a gallon).

Also, I'll be honest, my daily caloric intake isn't much. Maybe 1500 calories a day.

Uh, yea, if you aren't eating enough calories and enough protein, you aren't going to gain weight. If you have trouble eating, GOMAD is often a great solution: drinking calories is typically easier and milk is cheap & easily affordable.

However, I'd still recommend working your lower body. Exercises like the squat and deadlift elicit far more growth in ALL muscles of the body than almost any other exercise you do. As an added bonus, they build functional strength that you'll be able to apply in the real world (ie, run faster, jump higher, move a couch easier, etc).

 

[marsbound2024]

I decided to mix MuscleMilk with milk. Drinking it before my workout at the moment. Tonight I decided to drink before the workout and after. I am actually rather pleased with results thus far. It isn't huge of course, but a bit noticeable. Tone is returning to places where I had lost it and my upper arms are getting bigger. I am working my lower body also to ensure I don't go all "Popeye" like someone mentioned.

Thankfully I'm getting the abdominal definition that I am wanting, albeit slowly but surely. I think my calorie intake has jumped to around 2000 calories a day now. Probably still not enough, but I'm doing what I can.

Nowhere near drinking a gallon of milk a day yet. Probably a third of a gallon.

 

[Howard]

You're almost at 50% of what you need to be eating daily! Keep it up.

 

[mchammer187]

how do you call yourself a hard gainer if you are struggling to eat 2000 calories

During a bulk you should be eating 4 to 5K calories and if you are doing it right than over half of the mass you gain will be good mass.

 

[marsbound2024]

You're almost at 50% of what you need to be eating daily! Keep it up.

Yikes. This will be difficult. By the way I did have a concern. Wouldn't drinking a gallon of milk a day pose risks for developing kidney stones with all that calcium? :/

Never had one and don't want one.

And jesus I just calculated it:

Age: 22
Height: 5 feet, 11 inches
Weight: 145 pounds
Activity Level: Light Exercise (Exercise 1-3x/wk)
Gender: male
Calories burned per day: 2367

Age: 22
Height: 5 feet, 11 inches
Weight: 145 pounds
Activity Level: Moderate Exercise (Exercise 3-5x/wk)
Gender: male
Calories burned per day: 2668

I don't see how I'm still alive if I burn this many calories. Maybe I am not calculating my caloric intake correctly? I have no idea how many calories are in some of the meals I buy for lunch and such. I thought that 1500-2000 estimate was about right. *shrug*

 

[Howard]

I don't believe calcium is a significant contributor to kidney stones. Calcium oxalate is, however, but it's not found in milk.

 

[marsbound2024]

how do you call yourself a hard gainer if you are struggling to eat 2000 calories

During a bulk you should be eating 4 to 5K calories and if you are doing it right than over half of the mass you gain will be good mass.

Easy! I'm a hard gainer because it's hard as hell to eat a lot for me. My body is not capable of eating lots and lots of food. Plus when I DO eat lots of food (like ribs with monterey chicken and bacon for dinner with cinnamon apples and then a fudge brownie with ice cream for dessert) I still don't gain weight. I can eat like that for a week and never gain a pound. High metabolism. Plus ectomorphs are normally known for being hard gainers. I am somewhere in between ectomorph and mesomorph body structure though I think.

Also, take that calorie quote with a grain of salt. The fact is I have no idea what my caloric intake is because I haven't recorded it and am guessing. Maybe it's higher, I really don't know. It's not like food from TGI Fridays or anywhere else comes with a label saying "This is this many calories."

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Easy! I'm a hard gainer because it's hard as hell to eat a lot for me. My body is not capable of eating lots and lots of food. Plus when I DO eat lots of food (like ribs with monterey chicken and bacon for dinner with cinnamon apples and then a fudge brownie with ice cream for dessert) I still don't gain weight. I can eat like that for a week and never gain a pound. High metabolism. Plus ectomorphs are normally known for being hard gainers. I am somewhere in between ectomorph and mesomorph body structure though I think.

Also, take that calorie quote with a grain of salt. The fact is I have no idea what my caloric intake is because I haven't recorded it and am guessing. Maybe it's higher, I really don't know. It's not like food from TGI Fridays or anywhere else comes with a label saying "This is this many calories."

Yes, it does. There is a book that should have a breakdown of calories in meals at every table. If there isn't, you can ask for one and they'll give it to you. It's required by law, if I'm not mistaken.

Anyhow, hard gainers are people who actually have trouble gaining weight even though they eat a tracked 4,000 calories. You definitely need to be eating more if you're trying to gain weight. Milk will not increase your risk of kidney stones so I wouldn't worry about that. Plus, you're young and have healthy kidneys. I wouldn't worry about that.

I think you overestimate how much you eat. You may eat a large meal, sure, but if you're not eating big at every meal, it's very difficult to gain weight. When I gained 20 pounds, I had to eat myself nearly sick at each meal. I ate about 3,500 calories every day to gain that weight. You need to track your caloric intake to a tee. Drink a ton of milk, lift heavy. You'll gain weight.

 

[brikis98]

The fact is I have no idea what my caloric intake is because I haven't recorded it and am guessing.

If you struggle to change your bodyweight, accurately tracking your caloric intake for a week or two may be a real eye opener. It'll almost certainly be different than your "guess" and will reveal whether you are a "hard gainer" (can eat huge amounts without changing bodyweight) or just not eating anywhere near enough.

Anyways, keep on it with gradually working your way up to GOMAD. Unless you have pre-existing health problems (ie, bad kidneys), you don't need to worry about it from a health perspective. Of course, it's also worth remembering that GOMAD isn't exactly a long term diet strategy, but just a quick way to add on some serious weight.