Multiple impact bullets

[jlee]

Dunno, getting shot with bird shot, essentially a few dozen BBs, might not kill you, but it would really suck, and few people would go for a second dose.

It would absolutely really suck, no argument there.

 

[pontifex]

Dunno, getting shot with bird shot, essentially a few dozen BBs, might not kill you, but it would really suck, and few people would go for a second dose.

Thats not the point though. If your life is in danger do you want the bad guy to be like "this really sucks" or do you want him to be like, dead? I'll go with dead every time.

 

[SP33Demon]

 

[tynopik]

Thats not the point though. If your life is in danger do you want the bad guy to be like "this really sucks" or do you want him to be like, dead? I'll go with dead every time.

Thats not the point though. If your life is in danger do you want the bad guy to be like "this really sucks" or do you want him to be like, not hit at all? I'll go with "this really sucks" every time.

Even trained officers can barely hit someone 15 feet away. And that's just 'hit them' anywhere. As you know, bullets don't magically kill you just because they hit your fingers. In fact most gun shot victims survive.

And even if your shot is eventually fatal, it most likely isn't immediately so.

So, to recap, most people miss, and even those that hit don't actually kill, and those that do kill don't do so immediately.



Another point to consider is that in most self-defense situations, you aren't facing someone 100% committed to killing you. Getting hit by anything is often enough for most to pause and reconsider the wisdom of their actions (or at least check to see how wounded they are)

 

[jlee]

Thats not the point though. If your life is in danger do you want the bad guy to be like "this really sucks" or do you want him to be like, not hit at all? I'll go with "this really sucks" every time.

Once police and military start transitioning over to gimmicky bullets, maybe I'll pay attention to you.

Or, you know, once they show some legitimate ballistics testing. I can wreck a paper target with an airsoft gun.

 

[tynopik]

Once police and military start transitioning over to gimmicky bullets, maybe I'll pay attention to you.

What police do is irrelevant.

Police have a high level of training (hopefully) and have to deal with a wide variety of situations, including shooting at cars and through other obstacles.

Home/self defense has a much narrower range of likely scenarios.

 

[jlee]

What police do is irrelevant.

Police have a high level of training (hopefully) and have to deal with a wide variety of situations, including shooting at cars and through other obstacles.

Home/self defense has a much narrower range of applications.

I'll take my higher level of training and keep real bullets.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[Merad]

Police have a high level of training (hopefully) and have to deal with a wide variety of situations, including shooting at cars and through other obstacles.

I see you subscribe to the myth of the "elite cop." Sorry, but it just ain't so. Cops are typically required to qualify about once a year, and your average cop doesn't visit the range otherwise.

 

[tynopik]

I see you subscribe to the myth of the "elite cop." Sorry, but it just ain't so. Cops are typically required to qualify about once a year, and your average cop doesn't visit the range otherwise.

The average cop is trained more than the average civilian carrying a self-defense handgun.

Agree or disagree?

 

[Gunslinger08]

I could see this being useful for home defense, but that's about it. It seems like it wouldn't penetrate even as much as hollow points, which is great for modern drywall and plywood construction.

 

[Merad]

The average cop is trained more than the average civilian carrying a self-defense handgun.

Agree or disagree?

Realistic answer? They are both equally incompetent.

 

[tynopik]

Realistic answer? They are both equally incompetent.

Therefore, a bullet that improves their odds of hitting is a good thing, right?

I could see this being useful for home defense, but that's about it.

That's what it's being sold for.

 

[DigDog]

not going to read whole thread.

a bullet that pierces a target, whatever leaves the target, is wasted energy. fragmented or not, the parts of the bullet sum to the kinetic energy shot at the muzzle; less (i mean minus) air resistance, which i'll grant is higher in a fragmented bullet.

point is, less bullet exiting target, more impact delivered. the size of the pellets doesnt affect impact energy.

 

[highland145]

not going to read whole thread.

a bullet that pierces a target, whatever leaves the target, is wasted energy. fragmented or not, the parts of the bullet sum to the kinetic energy shot at the muzzle; less air resistance, which i'll grant is higher in a fragmented bullet.

point is, less bullet exiting target, more impact delivered. the size of the pellets doesnt affect impact energy.

f=maa

 

[jagec]

Therefore, a bullet that improves their odds of hitting is a good thing, right?

So, we're back to a 12 gauge loaded with 00-buck as the ultimate home defense weapon. Again.

point is, less bullet exiting target, more impact delivered. the size of the pellets doesnt affect impact energy.

It sure affects how quickly they lose momentum while traveling to the target, and that isn't even considering that massive drag chute they're towing in this case.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[tynopik]

So, we're back to a 12 gauge loaded with 00-buck as the ultimate home defense weapon. Again.

Yes

But some people need/want something smaller, and for them, this seems like a reasonable solution.

 

[SP33Demon]

So, we're back to a 12 gauge loaded with 00-buck as the ultimate home defense weapon. Again.

It's a classic for a reason.

 

[jlee]

I know a handful of officers. I have way more range time then all of them combined.

I have no clue how much the average civilian trains, that probably varies from state to state based on the requirements in that state.

I'd say it's a wash. What police do have is training and experience in controlling stressful situations. That is imho more important than their proficiency with a firearm.

I do think that everyone who carries for self defense should go to a simunitions training, if they have the opportunity (I've never looked into the availability of such training in the non-LEO world). A well-done sim training is immensely valuable in showing you how you will likely perform under stress.

 

[DigDog]

come on, dont make me quote my own post. MINUS AIR RESISTANCE. DRAG. momentum.
we all understand physics. the OP was perplexed

.. but aren't you reducing overall stopping power by splitting the projectile like that.
..

that a solid block with an energy value has the same value when fragmented, LESS THE AFOREMENTIONED DRAG.

these aren't meant to be long distance rounds. they are obv meant to be high impact rounds to maximize their stoppage power.

 

[pontifex]

What police do is irrelevant.

Police have a high level of training (hopefully) and have to deal with a wide variety of situations, including shooting at cars and through other obstacles.

Home/self defense has a much narrower range of likely scenarios.

umm....didn't you just say:

Even trained officers can barely hit someone 15 feet away. And that's just 'hit them' anywhere.

 

[Puppies04]

come on, dont make me quote my own post. MINUS AIR RESISTANCE. DRAG. momentum.
we all understand physics. the OP was perplexed that a solid block with an energy value has the same value when fragmented, LESS THE AFOREMENTIONED DRAG.

these aren't meant to be long distance rounds. they are obv meant to be high impact rounds to maximize their stoppage power.

I wasn't perplexed about anything thank you very much.....