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Multiple computers using DSL w/out router?

W

weshuang

Senior member
I am in the process of setting up a second computer in my house, but it is two floors away from the other computer, which uses an external DSL modem with Verizon ADSL service. I want to be able to have both computers connect to DSL, but I dont' need to be able to have them on simultaneously. I have a cheap hub, but don't want to use it because the cabling would be tough. I don't think wireless is a good idea for me because I use 2.4 mhz Siemens phones and I am told the wifi uses the same frequency.

I have an extra DSL modem around, and I was assuming that I could simply set it up just like the other computer, as long as they weren't simlutaneously logged on. However, last night I couldn't get the modem to work -- one of the indicator lights flashes, which means that there is a communications problem between the modem and the CO. I tried switching the modems, which worked, so I know it's not the modem. I also tried putting the uncooperative modem on a different phone jack, and it still didn't work.

On the way in to work, it occurred to maybe the mere presence of one modem disabled other modems. In other words, while modem A is powered on (but not logged in to Verizon), it keeps modem B from working properly. Does anyone know if that's the case, or have other suggestions to get multiple computers sharing DSL?

Thanks,
Wes Huang
 
"In other words, while modem A is powered on (but not logged in to Verizon), it keeps modem B from working properly. Does anyone know if that's the case, or have other suggestions to get multiple computers sharing DSL?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That shouldn't be a problem at all. The second modem which didn't work is bad.
 
Your Phone Co. probably goes off the MAC address of the modem they gave you to allow it service. If you bought a new modem you would have to give them the MAC address to make it work. I would think... I know Cable modems are like that. I don't know if they let you have multiple modems on one house? I would guess not but maybe???

They make networking equipment that sends signals through your power lines. I don't know much about it but it is an alternative. I'll look into it more and see what I can find...
 
" That shouldn't be a problem at all. The second modem which didn't work is bad."

Thanks for responding, Scorpio. Actually, I don't think the second modem is bad -- here's what I've done so far. My original computer (which has the working DSL connection) is upstairs. The new computer is downstairs.

1) With modem #1 upstairs and modem #2 downstairs, modem #2 doesn't work, but modem #1 does work.
2) With modem #2 upstairs and modem #1 downstairs, modem #1 doesn't work, but modem #2 does work.
3) With modem #2 upstairs and modem #1 at a third phone jack, modem #1 doesn't work, but modem #2 does work.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Wes
 
Thanks, JBritt. I think I saw in one of the AnandTech FAQs that MAC address problems aren't an issue with DSL modems, but I obviously don't have a clue. I suppose I could call Verizon and ask them, although I am almost assured of getting the wrong answer ;-)
 
You better off trying to find another creative solution.

DSL from logon perspective is more like Dialup. The PPPOE software (or the Router) sends an ID, and Password. Once it is activated you can not log on with a second Modem.

BTW. You can find 900MHz Tel. for $10-$20; some times you have to make painful choices in order to enjoy life.
 
" DSL from logon perspective is more like Dialup. The PPPOE software (or the Router) sends an ID, and Password. Once it is activated you can not log on with a second Modem."

Well, I am really not going to need to be logged on at both computers at the same time, so I was hoping to just have two standalone computers with separate DSL modems. The other reason I'm trying to resist doing a network for now, besides the cabling hassle, is that I don't want to have to leave one computer on at all times.
 
If I am not mistaken you have another post about slow starting DSL.

Verizon uses PPPOE software to ?Dial in?, and keep the connection alive. This software is quirky hence the initial long logon.

I would suggest to any one with PPPOE DSL to buy a Cable/DSL Router even if they don?t have a Network.

Cable/DSL Routers these days can be found for less then $50.

Example: 4-Port Cable/DSL Gateway Router, plus $30 Mfr Mail in Rebate.

For the price you get Hardware Firewall, and Hardware PPPOE "keep alive".

You Log on to a Router, in the PPPOE menu type username and password. Make sure thta PPPOE is checked. Set the router to obtain IP automatically.

As long as you don't switch off the DSL Modem, and the Router you are connected "forever" (the computer can be switched off). If you switch the Modem, and the Router off, when you switch them on again, it will take less then a minute, and the Router will automatically connect to the DSL ISP.

You can uninstall WINPOET and Netscape (or whatever software they dished you).
Or you can leave them installed; (The software PPPOE appears as another Dialup connection, in the Browser).

The Router?s PPPOE capacity is independent from the Computer, and it keeps the connection alive.

Working through the Router should yield faster smoother Internet connection.

You can use the Router for wired network to your second computer, or if you can afford more get a Wireless Cable/DSL Router, and go wireless.

General Info on the topics:

AT - FAQ . Basic Options for Internet Connection Sharing

AT - FAQ. Hubs, routers, switches, DSL, LANs, WANs...?

AT - FAQ. What do I need for wireless networking?
 
JackMDS,

You're right, that was me blathering about slow startup. In fact, I just got off the phone with Verizon, who told me the exact same thing you did. (Which is either a compliment or not, I'm not sure ;-)) Anyway, I think I'll buy a DSL router (as I understand it, the extra Netgear switch I have laying around won't do the trick as easily).

Thanks,
Wes
 
I don't think wireless is a good idea for me because I use 2.4 mhz Siemens phones and I am told the wifi uses the same frequency.
Click to expand...

This only somewhat true, If your Ghz phone is on the same frequency spectrum, then yes you will have some minor headaches, but it's a simple fix. All you'd have to do is change the configuration of your wirless equipment to a different frequency spectrum, most brands offer anywhere from 7-15 channels within the 802.11b standards, I have a wireless AP sitting right next to my 2.4 Ghz cordless right now, and don't have a single problem. Most cordless phones automatically detect the frequency less used anyway (and most use up to 60 different channels), and refuse to interfere with your network.

Personally, unless you use vpn on a static ip address, I'd just buy a wireless broadband router and a couple of usb wireless nics and be done with it. If you use vpn that doesn't require the client to use a static address, you can even enable pptp pass through and not have a single problem(also using that myself).

If you don't have much experience with wireless(seems obvious) I'd suggest you to go with the Linksys equipment, not only are they the cheapest stuff out there right now, they are by far the easiest to configure, and come with very simplified yet thorough instructions.

edit: Noticed a distance thing for you as well, put your wireless router on the floor in-between the two for maximum transfer ability, if you put the router right next to one or the other pc, the one farthest might have to drop to 5.5MBps(or even 2MBps) instead of the full 11MBps. 😛
 
k

Lets come back to the original problem.

----------------------------------------------------------
1) With modem #1 upstairs and modem #2 downstairs, modem #2 doesn't work, but modem #1 does work.
2) With modem #2 upstairs and modem #1 downstairs, modem #1 doesn't work, but modem #2 does work.
3) With modem #2 upstairs and modem #1 at a third phone jack, modem #1 doesn't work, but modem #2 does work.
---------------------------------------------------------

This menas that the internet connection is working ONLY "UPSTAIRS" irrespective of the modems u r using.

Try this --
Take a phone line splitter and connect it to the phone jack UPSTAIRS. get both the machines upstairs and connect to each modem to that splitting line. Try connecting from each modem one at a time (I know its becoming messy). If they WORK then that means your phone jacks downstairs and third location are not working correctly.
 
Good idea, Scorpio. I checked with Verizon, and they also told me that there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get the two routers to work. I suppose that there's something funky with the downstairs phone lines.

lobadobadingdong, I'm intrigued by your post re. wifi. I've just been kind of writing off that possibility as a solution, but suddenly wifi sounds like the best solution of all. (Particularly if I can't get the thing solved with two modems.)

Can't believe the help I'm getting. Anandtech rocks.
 
I don't think wireless is a good idea for me because I use 2.4 mhz Siemens phones and I am told the wifi uses the same frequency.
Click to expand...

FYI, I have the Siemens system with a bunch of handsets, I also run 3 3COM 802.11b access points, they get along fine.

Bill
 
bob, I did take the filters off the downstairs line, and I have tested three different jacks. The modems still can't work downstairs. I'm a little perplexed for the moment.

bill, in the configurations I'm using, I would have a siemens phone basically right on top of each computer. Do you have your phones that close to a wifi transmitter? Still no problems?
 
bill, in the configurations I'm using, I would have a siemens phone basically right on top of each computer. Do you have your phones that close to a wifi transmitter? Still no problems?
Click to expand...

My Siemens base station is in my kitchen, but I have a the mobile headsets thru the house. One headset is on a table next to one if the 3com unit, with no problems.
Cheers,
Bill


 
Well I finally figured out the problem. Despite what Verizon told me, the problem seems to be that I can't have both modems powered on at the same time. Not the computer, mind you, but the modems. With the upstairs computer off, but the modem on, I couldn't get the downstairs modem to work. However, once I powered off the upstairs modem, the downstairs modem worked no problem.

This is a little surprising to me. Does anyone know why this is? I wouldn't have thought that Verizon would be able to tell if there was a second modem powered on as long as it wasn't logged in. Could it be that there isn't enough signal strength on my line or something? Any other way one could be interfering with the other?

Guess I'm going to have to go to a network sooner than I thought.

Thanks,
Wes
 
Now that I'm seriously considering a network, can someone tell me if there are any distance limitations to running Cat-5 cable for a LAN? Being an old timer, even if wifi would work well for me, there's just something about actually having wires that makes me feel better... I just don't know how feasible it would be to run the wiring. Do they make weatherproof CAT-5, so that I can run down the outside of the house?
 
what kind a modem do you have?
Do you have to setup a dialup connection to connect to DSL? (Do yo have to punch in ur password everytime to connect to DSL OR is the password is set in your modem?)
 
Originally posted by: weshuang
Now that I'm seriously considering a network, can someone tell me if there are any distance limitations to running Cat-5 cable for a LAN? Being an old timer, even if wifi would work well for me, there's just something about actually having wires that makes me feel better... I just don't know how feasible it would be to run the wiring. Do they make weatherproof CAT-5, so that I can run down the outside of the house?
Click to expand...

You can run cat5 a good couple hundred feet. Another thing to consider is phone line networking, it will coexist with DSL and you obviously have phone lines at each system. You'll be limited to 10mb, but since your main goal is sharing that DSL connection, that should be more than fast enough.

Bill
 
If you have both DSL modems on at the same time you are cancelling out the high frequencies available to the other modem. DSL simply takes a spectrum of high frequency and equates points along the frequencies spread out and assigns voltage points very much like a regular modem but at much higher rates. By having 2 modems screaming at the same time one of them would not get the frequencies it needs to work. I'm sure your speed was probably down on the one that still was working too when you had the two powered on the line at the same time.

I was one of the Engineers on the DSL design team for Alcatel in 1996.
 
Do they make weatherproof CAT-5, so that I can run down the outside of the house?
Click to expand...
There have been several threads about the safety of doing this, e.g. this one. Some people think it is ok while others think you are putting your life in your hands. However, I think everyone would agree you shouldn't do it without taking some safety precautions. If all you really care about is internet sharing, I personally would try phoneline or powerline or wireless before I would run cable outside. It also sounds like you could get in the habit of turning your dsl modems on and off as needed.
 
Interesting read that thread on the Cat5 outside. You can sure tell the age of the participants because no one mentioned the millions of TV antenna's we used to have sticking up in the air in the United States with a plain thin gauge zip type two pair wire, now you want to talk about a lightning rod?
rolleye.gif


 
OK, I give on the notion of running CAT5 externally. I have a brick house anyway, and it wouldn't have been the easiest thing in the world. Practically speaking, that leaves me with either wifi, phoneline, or powerline. Do phoneline and powerline really work? I hadn't even been considering them, assuming that they were inferior technologies for some reason.
 
Phoneline works fine for me but Powerline seems to be the hotter technology right now. See www.homeplug.org. In particular, consider the Netgear Xe602. Of course, wireless may be a good option too, but a distance of 2 floors between computers may be tough. Hard to say until you try it.
 
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