Mueller, what's that a pasta company? Forget that, this is where the action will be.

[Hayabusa Rider]

Fraud and the NY Attorney General

Since this is documented and in the public record, there's no doubt that Trump inflated asset values, AKA bank and insurance fraud at the very least and probably other NY laws.

As there is no pardon possible for state crimes and NY is keen go pursue this to the limit (they're already working on it) Trump cannot lose in 2020 and remain free from the very real perils of prison. Mueller? Not likely to see that much in terms of action. SDNY? Being who they are institutionally it's possible that indictments happen. NY? Trump is screwed for acts already known.

Adios!

 

[BoomerD]

Well...as much as I'd LOVE to see him frogmarched to prison in handcuffs...I'm just not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

 

[thilanliyan]

Well...as much as I'd LOVE to see him frogmarched to prison in handcuffs...I'm just not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

QFT, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[interchange]

Part of the other article is that they knew he was inflating his assets. Is it still a crime if Deutsche Bank knew about it? I think the next question is why they still approved the loan. Clearly there is a lot of shadiness about Trump's relationship with Deutsche Bank. But I'm fearful it's all like what the Russian investigations have turned up so far. Trump playing by a different rule book but being allowed to do so because it's no secret and it serves their own illegal purposes. Gotta have something that points directly to Trump.

 

[hal2kilo]

Fraud and the NY Attorney General

Since this is documented and in the public record, there's no doubt that Trump inflated asset values, AKA bank and insurance fraud at the very least and probably other NY laws.

As there is no pardon possible for state crimes and NY is keen go pursue this to the limit (they're already working on it) Trump cannot lose in 2020 and remain free from the very real perils of prison. Mueller? Not likely to see that much in terms of action. SDNY? Being who they are institutionally it's possible that indictments happen. NY? Trump is screwed for acts already known.

Adios!

Just more presidential harassment. /s

 

[woolfe9998]

Part of the other article is that they knew he was inflating his assets. Is it still a crime if Deutsche Bank knew about it? I think the next question is why they still approved the loan. Clearly there is a lot of shadiness about Trump's relationship with Deutsche Bank. But I'm fearful it's all like what the Russian investigations have turned up so far. Trump playing by a different rule book but being allowed to do so because it's no secret and it serves their own illegal purposes. Gotta have something that points directly to Trump.

The answer is probably no, because fraud requires detrimental reliance on a false representation, meaning the victim of the fraud took action based on the false information and suffered financial harm as a result. There is no detrimental reliance if you knew the information was false because then you didn't rely on that information.

They may have trouble prosecuting this.

 

[zinfamous]

The answer is probably no, because fraud requires detrimental reliance on a false representation, meaning the victim of the fraud took action based on the false information and suffered financial harm as a result. There is no detrimental reliance if you knew the information was false because then you didn't rely on that information.

They may have trouble prosecuting this.

Yes, but then don't you just have the account managers colluding (lol) with the client, Orange Julius, to commit fraud against the bank? If this is the account managers being aware of the fraud, in concert with Trump, then that means they are also defrauding the bank, no? I think you just have to show that the admins/board/whatever at Deutsche bank weren't aware of the fraud?

 

[brycejones]

Fraud and the NY Attorney General

Since this is documented and in the public record, there's no doubt that Trump inflated asset values, AKA bank and insurance fraud at the very least and probably other NY laws.

As there is no pardon possible for state crimes and NY is keen go pursue this to the limit (they're already working on it) Trump cannot lose in 2020 and remain free from the very real perils of prison. Mueller? Not likely to see that much in terms of action. SDNY? Being who they are institutionally it's possible that indictments happen. NY? Trump is screwed for acts already known.

Adios!

I'm just jumping to the final refrain from his supporters.

Even if he did it, its no big deal.

 

[kage69]

Yep. SDNY is going to help Trump out with his appreciation of the color orange. Bigly.

The downward spiraling mental stability of Trump has been on display in spades lately, he understands how fuct he is. Let's just hope he doesn't get much more desperate.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yes, but then don't you just have the account managers colluding (lol) with the client, Orange Julius, to commit fraud against the bank? If this is the account managers being aware of the fraud, in concert with Trump, then that means they are also defrauding the bank, no? I think you just have to show that the admins/board/whatever at Deutsche bank weren't aware of the fraud?

If these account managers were employees of DB, then legally they were acting as agents for the bank. Meaning the account managers' knowledge of Trump's lies is imputed to the bank itself. Legally, if DB's employees knew he lied, then the bank did too.

 

[VRAMdemon]

There's no justice like poetic justice. Prosecutors used a new law Trump signed to get data from Cohen's Gmail: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...404570515c0ac

that may explain his latest Tweetstorm. Donald Trump: 12-D chess Grandmaster ...

 

[Moonbeam]

Republicans have so much to be proud about. There is just so few real values that one can reach so high for while justifying stooping so low to attain them. Just so little in life that one would pray fervently for that one's hypocrisy never cracks.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The answer is probably no, because fraud requires detrimental reliance on a false representation, meaning the victim of the fraud took action based on the false information and suffered financial harm as a result. There is no detrimental reliance if you knew the information was false because then you didn't rely on that information.

They may have trouble prosecuting this.

Considering that this also involves insurance fraud as a result (more assets = lower rates), I'd say he's on the hook. Besides I think DB isn't going to say "yah, we decided to trick everyone by us and Trump conspiring". Pretty much the criminal prosecution has been made and DB will have to admit it broke the law on its own for the benefit of Trump. I'm thinking the nation that DB is registered in won't let that go. So throw Trump or yourself under the bus? I'm going for DB not sticking it's head in a noose.

In any case, Trump misrepresented assets with intent and that alone isn't going to see him skating by.

 

[Indus]

QFT, I'll believe it when I see it.

I think his kids aren't covered by any magical protections.

Besides much better to see them in jail than him.

 

[thilanliyan]

I think his kids aren't covered by any magical protections.

Besides much better to see them in jail than him.

I really hope they don't find a way to skirt punishment, but the rich ones usually do sadly.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I really hope they don't find a way to skirt punishment, but the rich ones usually do sadly.

NY is the honey badger of prosecution. They don't care if you are rich or not. Ask the mob families.

 

[woolfe9998]

Considering that this also involves insurance fraud as a result (more assets = lower rates), I'd say he's on the hook. Besides I think DB isn't going to say "yah, we decided to trick everyone by us and Trump conspiring". Pretty much the criminal prosecution has been made and DB will have to admit it broke the law on its own for the benefit of Trump. I'm thinking the nation that DB is registered in won't let that go. So throw Trump or yourself under the bus? I'm going for DB not sticking it's head in a noose.

In any case, Trump misrepresented assets with intent and that alone isn't going to see him skating by.

I'm a little unclear where you get the idea that Trump lied to insurance companies about his net worth. It isn't mentioned in your article.

So far as how DB will handle this, I'm assuming the documents prove that they knew his true net worth. DB's conduct here is suspicious. It's hard to understand why they loaned him this money. They are accused of laundering billions in dirty Russian money at the same time they were making Trump these questionable loans.

As to your last sentence, that is not correct. Lying about your assets alone isn't enough for fraud. It requires reliance on the statement by the victim. It isn't fraud if they didn't believe you. That said, there could be a statute which criminalizes the mere act of lying on a loan application, regardless of whether it's fraud, but I doubt such a statute would provide the same penalty as fraud. If there is one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm a little unclear where you get the idea that Trump lied to insurance companies about his net worth. It isn't mentioned in your article.

That was from a Maddow show that showed how Trump's property went from a nominal 25 million to over a quarter billion for one year and the fake assets were a security used to leverage lower insurance rates. Then there's the matter of taxes (to which I have nothing but speculation here) and I wonder if he's up to speed with NY on that very expensive property.

In any case Trump is in a lot of trouble as his Organization and Charity are being investigated and in the case of the latter dissolved and being administrated by NY for distribution to charities. Then we get to criminal aspects once Trump is fined and his businesses acted against. Is DB complicit? Seems likely however investigations are not done and Trump had better have crossed every t and dotted every i.

 

[BoomerD]

I really hope they don't find a way to skirt punishment, but the rich ones usually do sadly.

They have daddy to shield them from any federal charges...but the State of NY might have other plans.

 

[woolfe9998]

That was from a Maddow show that showed how Trump's property went from a nominal 25 million to over a quarter billion for one year and the fake assets were a security used to leverage lower insurance rates. Then there's the matter of taxes (to which I have nothing but speculation here) and I wonder if he's up to speed with NY on that very expensive property.

If that is the case and it can be proven, then yes that's a crime. But it has nothing to do with what is discussed in your article. I'm addressing the specific accusation of his lying on his loan applications to DB, and them knowing his true net worth all along.

Trump has undoubtedly committed scads of financial crimes.

In any case Trump is in a lot of trouble as his Organization and Charity are being investigated and in the case of the latter dissolved and being administrated by NY for distribution to charities. Then we get to criminal aspects once Trump is fined and his businesses acted against. Is DB complicit? Seems likely however investigations are not done and Trump had better have crossed every t and dotted every i.

I have little doubt that he's guilty of many things. Time will tell what they can prove and if or when they actually prosecute. I'd like to see him in an orange jumpsuit, but I'll believe it when it happens.

 

[DrDoug]

Just to let you know, something covering this was already posted.

 

[fskimospy]

If that is the case and it can be proven, then yes that's a crime. But it has nothing to do with what is discussed in your article. I'm addressing the specific accusation of his lying on his loan applications to DB, and them knowing his true net worth all along.

Trump has undoubtedly committed scads of financial crimes.

I have little doubt that he's guilty of many things. Time will tell what they can prove and if or when they actually prosecute. I'd like to see him in an orange jumpsuit, but I'll believe it when it happens.

While I think I get the general principle of 'no harm, no foul' it is kind of funny that you can lie to a bank to try and weasel them out of money if they see through your bullshit it's not a crime. If they're dumb enough to be fooled by you though, it is.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just to let you know, something covering this was already posted.

Whelp I missed that. The mods can lock this one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

They have daddy to shield them from any federal charges...but the State of NY might have other plans.

The kids are already named by NY in a few civil matters that are also illegal. We'll see who survives. Reality TV-- Trumps Forged in Fire! I'm seeing some serious cracks in their spines.

 

[Moonbeam]

While I think I get the general principle of 'no harm, no foul' it is kind of funny that you can lie to a bank to try and weasel them out of money if they see through your bullshit it's not a crime. If they're dumb enough to be fooled by you though, it is.

It's progress. In a paleolithic world Trump wouldn't wake up one morning due to his head having been caved in during the night whereas with modern progress he can shield himself by use of the legal system. Irony can run pretty deep when you take the common sense out of guilt.

When good people try to protect themselves from bad prosecution, bad people step forward to hide behind it. Every decent person knows which is which.