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Mueller indicts Russians

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Greenman said:
I'm not sure why we're doing a happy dance here. Russians were putting out propaganda on social media with the intent of swaying the election, I thought that was established already? Weren't we all waiting for the Trump connection?
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Mueller can’t comment on any ongoing investigation into any of trump’s people until he’s finished. This doesn’t mean they’re off the hook.
 
Greenman said:
I'm not sure why we're doing a happy dance here. Russians were putting out propaganda on social media with the intent of swaying the election, I thought that was established already? Weren't we all waiting for the Trump connection?
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There was a lot more than just social media postings.
 
brandonbull said:
Clinton and the DNC denied any knowledge of the dossier.

Bruce Ohr tried to hid payments.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/14/e...es-fusion-gps-payments-from-ethics-officials/
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Link for "Clinton and the DNC denied any knowledge of the Dossier"??? There were certain people in DNC leadership (DWS) who have claimed they were unaware of DNC funding for the dossier at that time. Remember, DNC and Clinton campaign were paying Perkins Coie, who paid Fusion GPS. They were not paying Steele directly, but I have gone on the record in this forum with my belief that Steele was a known asset to Clinton's people and I suspect they asked Fusion to engage him because of his known skills and connections in Russia. Again, nothing proven, just a hunch.

As for the campaign, all I can say is that Podesta went on the record to say they were not aware of the arrangement between Fusion and the campaign. Marc Elias, campaign lawyer, was probably keeping that close to his best. Bottom line--the FBI *knew* who was paying Steele (heck, they did too!) and disclosed that the dossier had a "political nature" on the FISA warrant.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...indicted-for-interfering-in-us-elections.html

"Further, the DOJ made clear that the indictment does not allege that any of the interference changed the outcome of the presidential race.

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel probe, said at a Friday press conference."


Meh.
 
Jhhnn said:
It's just lame "Well, but Hillary could have... something, something for which I have no proof whatsoever." It's whataboutism.
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Except that is not what I said. All I said was that the indictment does not relate to anything about what Hillary did or did not do. If you want to believe anything beyond that then go right ahead, but its not part of reality. So how can it be what about when I never came close to that?
 
SlowSpyder said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...indicted-for-interfering-in-us-elections.html

"Further, the DOJ made clear that the indictment does not allege that any of the interference changed the outcome of the presidential race.

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel probe, said at a Friday press conference."


Meh.
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Saying the indictment does not allege means it could still be true, but that the indictment is about something else.
 
SlowSpyder said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...indicted-for-interfering-in-us-elections.html

"Further, the DOJ made clear that the indictment does not allege that any of the interference changed the outcome of the presidential race.

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel probe, said at a Friday press conference."


Meh.
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How could it possibly be proven? Ask every voter if a Facebook meme changed their mind? Think for once in your life and don’t look to fox for your thoughts.
 
brandonbull said:
Steele carried after on because he hated Trump and is politically motivated
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We know that Steele stated he was determined to not have a Trump presidency. Is there any evidence that his individual actions had political motivation (as opposed to political implications)? Is there any evidence that Steele had this opinion of Trump, foreknowledge of evidence he compiled in the dossier, or conflicts of interest in regards to Trump before starting his investigation? Is there any evidence that Steele's methods of investigation were unusual or inappropriate for the purposes of gaining opposition research or outside of usual sources and methods that a trained foreign intelligence operative would have access to and utilize?

What has been stated is that Steele formed an opinion that Trump was so dangerous and criminal that he should not be allowed to become president as a direct result of the evidence he collected from doing his job in an ordinary fashion.

If you have any evidence whatsoever that it actually worked differently than that, please present it.
 
SlowSpyder said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...indicted-for-interfering-in-us-elections.html

"Further, the DOJ made clear that the indictment does not allege that any of the interference changed the outcome of the presidential race.

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel probe, said at a Friday press conference."


Meh.
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Meh indeed...that's just Rosenstein trying to save his job! Did you read the actual indictments, or did you just go straight to the Fox News talking points? Did you note the references to "persons known and unknown to the grand jury"?
 
SlowSpyder said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...indicted-for-interfering-in-us-elections.html

"Further, the DOJ made clear that the indictment does not allege that any of the interference changed the outcome of the presidential race.

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel probe, said at a Friday press conference."


Meh.
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Except they unsealed an indictment for a US person who plead guilty and was aiding the FBI in the investigation. He wasn’t in that indictment. Doesn’t mean there aren’t other thing not in that indictment that aren’t released. Yet.
 
realibrad said:
Except that is not what I said. All I said was that the indictment does not relate to anything about what Hillary did or did not do. If you want to believe anything beyond that then go right ahead, but its not part of reality. So how can it be what about when I never came close to that?
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I think I understand your logic now. By the same token, the indictment does not relate to anything that Trump, his family, lawyers, campaign staff or other aids did or did not do to assist or knowingly benefit from said Russian meddling.
 
realibrad said:
How so? If that is the root of this, then I have misunderstood. I see no reason to believe she did or did not, but you are saying that is in and of itself spreading scandalous claims?
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Why are you spending so much time on this? Who gives a shit if she [Clinton] is or isn't completely exonerated. 13 people have been indicted for attacking America to aid Trump. Talk about that instead of splitting hairs about a point that was only specifically made once on this thread. What is your agenda by holding on to it? Leave it alone fss.
 
Interesting...I missed this in my initial read, but indictments say that post-election, Russians held pro-Trump and anti-Trump rallies in NYC on the same day in order to sow political discord and possibly incite violence.
 
UNCjigga said:
I think I understand your logic now. By the same token, the indictment does not relate to anything that Trump, his family, lawyers, campaign staff or other aids did or did not do to assist or knowingly benefit from said Russian meddling.
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Correct. This is one narrow thing. It could easily be the foundation of a larger inquiry into Trump, but as of right now this indictment is confined to saying that people did take actions to influence the election.

Now, if it turns out they have more dirt and they do get Trump, even that would technically not disqualify anything on Hillary's side logically. It might be reasonable to assume that she did nothing wrong, but logically and thus technically it does not disqualify anything on her side. That said, until there is evidence that she did something, I see no reason to look into anything. It would be like us investigating if you had tampered with the US bacon supply and added in Viagra to help the US get porked after eating pork. There is simply no reason to believe you did.
 
Younigue said:
Why are you spending so much time on this? Who gives a shit if she [Clinton] is or isn't completely exonerated. 13 people have been indicted for attacking America to aid Trump. Talk about that instead of splitting hairs about a point that was only specifically made once on this thread. What is your agenda by holding on to it? Leave it alone fss.
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Well, the question was asked, so I responded. The discussion grew from there, so I continued to talk. You may not find it interesting, but I felt it was worth engagement. I personally don't care about Clinton, I just said that you can't draw anything from this indictment and her.
 
UNCjigga said:
Interesting...I missed this in my initial read, but indictments say that post-election, Russians held pro-Trump and anti-Trump rallies in NYC on the same day in order to sow political discord and possibly incite violence.
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Exactly, they want to play both sides to harm America. As they favored Trump's election it was purely to harm us. They still would have wanted to harm Hillary once she got into office and would have prepared for it given how likely it was. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Steele was that contingency.
 
UNCjigga said:
Interesting...I missed this in my initial read, but indictments say that post-election, Russians held pro-Trump and anti-Trump rallies in NYC on the same day in order to sow political discord and possibly incite violence.
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Not surprised. Divide the nation and make it attack itself is far easier than other methods. There is an underlying anger in the nation and all Russia did was play us. Now they can just sit back.
 
Jaskalas said:
Exactly, they want to play both sides to harm America. As they favored Trump's election it was purely to harm us. They still would have wanted to harm Hillary once she got into office and would have prepared for it given how likely it was. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Steele was that contingency.
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Wait... you now think Steele is working for the Russians? Or somehow their stooge?
 
Holy shit...remember those 200 Russian "mercenaries" killed in Syria? Welp, turns out the commander of that mercenary group (Wagner Group) is the same guy named on the indictment as CEO of Concord Catering/Concord Management and Consulting. Putin calls him "Chef".
https://uawire.org/wagner-group-commander-becomes-ceo-of-putin-s-friend-s-catering-business
http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-update-august-26-2016/

Hmm...official reason for the US ally-led operation in Syria was "retaliation for shelling"...but I smell black ops.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-300-killed-and-wounded-sources-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ
https://www.polygraph.info/a/us-wagner-russia-syria-scores-killed/29044339.html

Here's more info on Prigozhin's cartel: https://themoscowtimes.com/news/nav...y-earning-billions-in-defense-contracts-58049

Aaand...here's an article from 2016 showing how Prigozhin tried to use new Russian laws to delete any mentions of his firm on the Internet...right around the time his troll farm was ramping up!
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2016/06/13/evgeny-prigozhin-s-right-to-be-forgotten
 
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