MSNBC:Senate expands child tax credit
- Thread starter Insane3D
- Start date
Hey that's good. Now a lot of people who pay virtually nothing or pay nothing in federal tax are going to get a "tax break". Woohoo!
Nice to see we totally agree on something TCsenter. So do the Editors at USA Today;
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Tax-cut package leaves low-income families behind
2 hours, 26 minutes ago Add Op/Ed - USA TODAY to My Yahoo!
In his weekly radio address on May 24, President Bush (news - web sites) called a just-passed $350 billion tax-cut package a ''victory for every family struggling to pay the bills.'' But details of the plan that emerged this week show millions of ''struggling'' taxpayers aren't getting any promised benefits.
Those shortchanged include low-wage individuals and families with children, including members of the U.S. military. The law's fine print also reveals that middle-income families will bear a heavier tax burden because they get less-generous breaks than those making more than $200,000.
The inequities are so glaring that they have prompted a scramble in Congress, with the White House's blessing, to make corrections. On Thursday, the Senate voted to provide relief to low-income families.
Certainly, the law's wrongs can be righted -- and without adding to the growing federal deficit. But that can happen only if legislators fund needed revisions by closing corporate tax loopholes or mining new revenue sources instead of conducting another raid on the U.S. Treasury.
Making the tax law fairer to low- and middle-income groups would serve several useful purposes. It would fulfill Bush's promise to give something back to everyone who pays federal taxes. It would bolster the long-time consensus behind a progressive tax code that takes a bigger bite as incomes rise. It also would provide the sluggish economy with an additional jolt, since families that live from paycheck to paycheck are likely to spend the extra dollars. Remember, stimulating the economy was a main reason for cutting taxes in the first place.
Among those left out of the tax cut:
* Singles. Some 8.1 million taxpayers would get nothing under the new law, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a think tank that advocates for the poor. Most are unmarried, have no dependents and make less than $14,000 a year. They pay as much as $600 in income taxes, plus Social Security (news - web sites) and Medicare levies. Also denied relief are some singles who have children or care for elderly relatives. Those with two dependents make as much as $54,200 and pay $5,200 in income taxes.
* Working poor. Although the law increases the child tax credit from $600 to $1,000, that doesn't benefit an estimated 6 million working families whose incomes are so low that they don't pay income taxes. Yet these are the very low-wage families that are supposed to be protected by current tax policy so they don't slip back onto welfare rolls. Plans to expand the child tax credit to include them had been in the Senate version of the tax bill, but were dropped to preserve corporate tax-avoidance schemes.
The Senate passed a bill on Thursday that would expand Customs Service fees to provide families $10 billion in relief, a third going to the working poor. While the plan is fiscally responsible, plugging corporate tax loopholes would be a better way to pay for it.
Yet some lawmakers in the House want to blow another hole in a deficit headed for a record $400 billion this year. They will help the working poor only if higher-income groups get an additional $100 billion in new tax cuts. And they won't identify spending cuts or new revenue to offset the costs.
Changes in the tax law are needed to fulfill Bush's promises. But they will be a victory for every taxpayer only if the corrections are better thought out -- and more mindful of the deficit -- than the original bill.
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"Certainly, the law's wrongs can be righted -- and without adding to the growing federal deficit. But that can happen only if legislators fund needed revisions by closing corporate tax loopholes or mining new revenue sources instead of conducting another raid on the U.S. Treasury."
No kidding
You don't, its called "welfare".
Notice the language "pay as much as $600", meaning none or very few pay more than $600 per year. Most probably pay nothing in federal income taxes, but will be getting a 'tax credit' (welfare).
All income up to 87.5 is assessed FICA. It is disingenuous to say these people do not pay taxes on their income. Anybody with two neurons knows most people will NOT get their FICA back b/c the system is going to implode within a decade or two. You might as well give the money back to the low rung people b/c it's not like they can expect benefits when they retire . . . at least not from the government.
I find that difficult to believe. Not the part about the Social Security system imploding within a decade or two, but that our response will be to just let it disintegrate and say 'Oh well its just 40 or 50 million low and fixed income people who will lose their Social Security benefits, disability checks, survivor benefits, and medical coverage, no big deal'. We will find a way to pay for it.
But the tax breaks are coming out of income tax revenues, not FICA tax revenues.
Must be some of the lockbox people . . . how can you claim tax breaks come out of income tax revenues when the government is running a deficit. FICA . . . in addition to paying for Medicare and SS for current beneficiaries runs an annual surplus which goes into the general fund. FICA is paying for everything including this tax cut. FICA is the epitome of fungible government revenue. Not only will FICA pay for this tax cut but it will continue to foot the bill up until the point outlays exceed FICA. I wonder how much Iraqi oil we will be pumping by then?
Well nobody is going to say it publicly . . . but which Republican has advanced a long term solvency plan for SS/Medicare. I believe Jesse "Amend it Don't End It" Jackson has a copyright on the phrase. The closest thing I've seen to a plan is the notion of block granting Medicare/Medicaid to the states . . . which isn't a plan at all . . . it's just passing the buck to someone who can't possibly foot the bill. Do you really think FL, AZ, NC want to pay for all the old people shacking up within their borders?
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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Let me get this straight... some people in this country (not counting FICA, and let's not because everyone pays FICA) pay not only nothing in taxes but get credits back, while others pay large percentages of their income... and you think that it is good that those who already pay nothing get more credits back, and think that those who pay all the burden should be forced to pay more???
Did you know that a family with a household income of roughly $60k/yr pays $10k/yr in federal income taxes alone? Are they "rich"?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Nope
I'm not rich I really want to dig out my taxes to see what my taxable income was and what my tax liability was this year. Maybe I'll do that when I get home.CkG
Maybe FICA won't be available for tax cuts, either.
Senate Medicare deal
Beneficiaries who opt into the new Medicare PPOs would get "actuarially equivalent" prescription drug coverage, but also other benefits Medicare does not currently offer, such as an out-of-pocket spending cap, better coverage of preventive health services, and "disease management" programs for those with chronic conditions.
I guess there is a GOP plan . . . tell people they will get better care (preventative health services/disease management programs) and cheaper drugs if they leave traditional Medicare and join a PPO. What the hell do they think doctors do? If PPO (preferred provider organization) doctors do disease management programs . . . what do other doctors get paid for . . . disease mismanagement?
Both Republicans and Democrats praised the plan, which appears likely to win Committee approval.
Other Democrats expressed even more substantive doubts about the deal, the full details of which remain unrevealed. "This is the worst and most bereft and empty process I have experienced in the 17 years I've been here," said Finance member Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.
Damn liberals . . . I bet he wants to give more of our hard earned tax dollars to support wasteful government spending. If he was wealthy he might know what it means to be abused by the systems . . . nevermind . . . if he was wealthy and worked for it he might know . . .
Senate Medicare deal
Beneficiaries who opt into the new Medicare PPOs would get "actuarially equivalent" prescription drug coverage, but also other benefits Medicare does not currently offer, such as an out-of-pocket spending cap, better coverage of preventive health services, and "disease management" programs for those with chronic conditions.
I guess there is a GOP plan . . . tell people they will get better care (preventative health services/disease management programs) and cheaper drugs if they leave traditional Medicare and join a PPO. What the hell do they think doctors do? If PPO (preferred provider organization) doctors do disease management programs . . . what do other doctors get paid for . . . disease mismanagement?
Both Republicans and Democrats praised the plan, which appears likely to win Committee approval.
Other Democrats expressed even more substantive doubts about the deal, the full details of which remain unrevealed. "This is the worst and most bereft and empty process I have experienced in the 17 years I've been here," said Finance member Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.
Damn liberals . . . I bet he wants to give more of our hard earned tax dollars to support wasteful government spending. If he was wealthy he might know what it means to be abused by the systems . . . nevermind . . . if he was wealthy and worked for it he might know . . .
A lot of misinformation here. Ask yourself why these people were left out of the first bill? It was because that it would make the cut to large to conform with the administration's numbers What makes you think that a single parent making 16 to 20 thousand a year pays no income tax? You have your head in the dark place. Compassionate Convertism, where is it. All I hear is that I dont want to pay 15 cents a monthr to help out the down and out.
Bleep
Bleep
If they pay no income tax, and we give them money if they have children then isn't that effectively welfare?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Misinformation....yes it is
"Administrations numbers" - The administration's numbers were 750+billion, Congressional Democrats (and a couple troublemakers
) put the 350billion "cap" on the tax-cut.Quick and dirty just like before - no taxes paid throughout the year(to show net), no exemptions except the normal and possibly EIC
Single parent making 16-20k:
1 kid $16000 = ~$2200 REFUND!
1 kid $20000 = ~$1000 REFUND!
Still question if people who make "16 to 20 thousand a year pays no income tax"? And those numbers are 2002 tax rates and child credit #'s :Q
Like I said in a different thread - Income tax is for revenue - not for weath redistribution. We can inefficiently do that through other means
I hope they pass a "net $0" income tax bill soon.
CkG
You know better than that. That's not how complex budgeting or accounting works.
SS/FICA contributions don't get stuffed under some huge mattress. From the inception of the system, actual contributions have gone into the general fund via bond/bill purchases and we've only been keeping the 'receipts'. Everything goes into the general fund. Well not everything, but just about everything, at one point or another.
The reduced revenue resulting from these tax breaks are, at least on paper, charged against, among other sources of revenue, federal income tax revenues, not against FICA/SS revenues. Again, on paper...
Did you actually read my post? Why repeat what I said . . . granted imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The simple fact is that SS/FICA goes into the general fund (just like all other taxes). SS/Medicare benefits are paid from the same pot of dough as all other government expenditures. But unlike tax refunds . . . FICA/SS already pulls its weight in the US economy by providing for current old dogs and then supplementing general revenues to reduce the appearance of a bloated budget/inadequate tax revenues.
Your pro forma presentation of federal tax receipts and the fantasy that tax credits come out of these tax receipts is quite Enronesque. If you include SS/FICA revenue the government is running a significant deficit . . . when you properly exclude SS/FICA (since technically these revenues will certainly be needed to pay future beneficiaries) the government is running a huge deficit. How can you issue a rebate from a negative balance?
Your pro forma presentation of federal tax receipts and the fantasy that tax credits come out of these tax receipts is quite Enronesque. If you include SS/FICA revenue the government is running a significant deficit . . . when you properly exclude SS/FICA (since technically these revenues will certainly be needed to pay future beneficiaries) the government is running a huge deficit. How can you issue a rebate from a negative balance?
I did, you in essence stated that since there's no money then tax credits can't possibly be coming from income tax revenues any more than their coming from FICA/SS.
Of course that's incorrect and I feel you're being deliberately obtuse. Any fairly complex budget uses the same accounting methods even at negative balances. The tax credits are charged against other revenues not including FICA/SS. It doesn't affect the 'receipts' for SS/FICA revenues, whether actual or projected.
If you want to say the money is coming from FICA/SS, fine. Then reduce the FICA/SS receipts by a commensurate amount.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
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