Seems like some poor choice of words... extend death penalty to the accused? Should it be 'convicted'?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I haven't lost anything either...well that is, atleast anything that affects me as of now.
CkG
Edit - oh wait - I did lose 10 mins standing in line at the airport waiting for the nice lady to NOT look at my ID and frisk me ever so gently
I guess I'll just get used to it Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
It won't get to that point. People will only take so much. The gov't as we know it will find itself on deaths door if things such as you posted start to materialize. The problem though is where do we as a people draw the line. I feel we are closer to that line than ever
CkG
Normally there are warning signs when the government starts to approach the limit of what is tolerable, I haven't seen those warning signs yet. When I'm critical about our government, I feel as if I'm in a small, well-informed minority, while the rest of America enjoys its reality TV, doritos, soda, and tax cuts :disgust:
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
It won't get to that point. People will only take so much. The gov't as we know it will find itself on deaths door if things such as you posted start to materialize. The problem though is where do we as a people draw the line. I feel we are closer to that line than ever
CkG
The only problem with that thinking is once this stuff gets passed, it's a lot harder to get it overturned. Sort of like you don't notice until it is too late.
Your opinion is more self serving than wrong per se. If it doesn't affect me, who cares. That is quite the limited and short sighted view IMO.
Convicted of what? The military is the judge, jury, and excutioner (AFAIK).
Ten years from now, you'll be feeling quite differently.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
It won't get to that point. People will only take so much. The gov't as we know it will find itself on deaths door if things such as you posted start to materialize. The problem though is where do we as a people draw the line. I feel we are closer to that line than ever
CkG
The only problem with that thinking is once this stuff gets passed, it's a lot harder to get it overturned. Sort of like you don't notice until it is too late.
I know - but up until this point people(average american) haven't seemed to be too concerned with the liberties they have lost. They must not be able to see the line yet. Once the general populace does see it, it'll be either too late to change or we'll have a civil war - the like of which the modern world has never known.CkG
Michael
Elite member
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It has nothing to do with "affecting" me.
Stop the aimless Bush-bashing, loosen up your tin foil beenie and be clear.
What civil liberty has been lost?
Do a little bit of research. There isn't anything.
Michael
ps - "privacy" is way overblown. The government long has had the right to "snoop" to protect society/enforce laws
Stop the aimless Bush-bashing, loosen up your tin foil beenie and be clear.
What civil liberty has been lost?
Do a little bit of research. There isn't anything.
Michael
ps - "privacy" is way overblown. The government long has had the right to "snoop" to protect society/enforce laws
Well once you renounce your previous allegiance to the impotent, ingrates North of the Border you will probably have few problems (except for the government collecting information on all of your transactions). But if I were you I wouldn't travel internationally . . . you have no guaranteed right of return. Of course, it helps that you do not look like a terrorist . . . just a guess.
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
It won't get to that point. People will only take so much. The gov't as we know it will find itself on deaths door if things such as you posted start to materialize. The problem though is where do we as a people draw the line. I feel we are closer to that line than ever
CkG
The only problem with that thinking is once this stuff gets passed, it's a lot harder to get it overturned. Sort of like you don't notice until it is too late.
CkG
Even at the worst possible event, I don't see this happening anytime soon. If an all-expense paid trip to a moon colony was advertised tomorrow, I think that most of the passengers would be those "in the know".
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Umm, I think it should be pointed out that this is an Asscroft bashing thread
If it was a Bush bashing thread Moonbeam would be all over it CkG
Yeah but people like Ashcroft often forget the flip side of that coin called responsibility. Furthermore those rights come with explicit limitations not the carte blanche implied by Ashcroft's DOJ.
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Umm, I think it should be pointed out that this is an Asscroft bashing thread
CkG
Bush is a nice guy, but Ashcroft...... He wants it, he begs for it, and when it arrives he just doesn't care. If anyone could be a 21st century big brother, then it would be him.
Interesting...we are conducting "aimless Bush-bashing" yet the only person in this thread that mentioned his name is you Michael. We must be really getting good at it now that we can do it without even mentioning him....
Here's an example that DOES affect you: Say you're a suspect in a drug trafficking investigation. There is only sketchy circumstancial evidence against you. The state AG needs some convictions to give the appearence of being tough on crime for his reelection campaign. He asks Herr Ashcroft's office to label you a terrorist.
As a terrorist, your mail can be intercepted and your phones tapped without a warrent. One slip of the tongue, one sound bite that sounds incriminating when taken out of context, and it's all over. Your home is raided in the middle of the night. You are dragged out of bed at gunpoint while your home is ransacked, your every worldly posession taken from you as "evidence".
You get locked away in a military brig for what may very well be the rest of your life. Your trial date is pushed back over and over and over again. You are not allowed to speak to a lawyer. To even let your family know what has happened to you would be considered a "threat to national security."
Welcome to America. Please have your papers ready.
I couldn't have put it better myself
Excellent example of where today's government is leading us! :|Ashcroft is a close, personal friend of Pat Roberts. If that doesn't say enough bout the man I don't know what does.
He believes Jesus would advocate the Jews colonize all of Idumea, Judea, Samaria, and Galilee. Anyone previously occupying those areas should either pack up and leave or learn to speak Hebrew. Of course if those Jews live in America . . . they need to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. The Southern Baptist Convention welcomes all men willing to renounce evil, love Jesus, and keep the wife two steps behind.
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