MSI S754 NF3-250 and NF4-4x ATX Mainboards @ Geeks.com

[ProsperoLT]

Just an FYI

nforce3 250 chipsets are INCOMPATIBLE WITH VISTA

I have a socket 939 board that uses the nforce3 ultra and found out that NVIDIA is NOT SUPPORTING THE NFORCE3 FOR VISTA!

especially problematic with RAID

 

[deadken]

Wow! This is the first time I am hearing of that. I guess buying this $40 Neo 3 H NF4 Motherboard has even better upgrade possibilities then I had thought (I really only wanted it for the PCI-e).

Anyway, I had been reading through the thread and I found another user that bought the same motherboard as I have and he said that he needed to use Clockgen to overclock with this motherboard. I will download and tinker around with that next...

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Muse
I'm wondering what would be the nature of any benefits if I upgraded my system with a new motherboard and CPU. Below are my system specs (Beauty in my sig). The Sempron processors don't appear to be all that much if at all faster than my current Athlon 1700+.

See for yourself:

AMD Sempron: A Fresh Take on Budget Computing
Includes benchmarks for S754 Sempron, Socket A Sempron and Athlon XP

AMD Sempron 2600+ for Socket 754
Includes benchmarks for S754 and Socket A Semprons

New Budget Processors Comparison: Intel Celeron D vs. AMD Sempron
Includes benchmarks for S754 Sempron, Socket A Sempron and Athlon XP

Socket A/462 Athlon XP 1700+ is roughly equivalent to Socket A/462 Sempron 2200/2300.

Thanks.

Maybe I'll buy an Athlon XP 2200+ and maybe a socket A MB that'll run it. I could probably use my current quiet HS/Fan combo (80 mm Vantec Stealth), current 1 GB RAM, move my current main MB into my spare/testing rig. I'd have a faster system (by virtue of the CPU upgrade), have SATA support and one more PCI slot and have USB 2.0 in both PC's, all for probably < $70. An upgrade on the cheap.

I would strongly, strongly, strongly urge you to go to at least S754 A64. The difference in games is pronounced, and just for desktop use the A64 will be great. I would get the MSI AGP board if you want to reuse RAM and VGA, and then snag a S754 cheap from either somewhere like geeks or the FS/FT forum here. The stock HS, available at geeks for ~$8, is pretty decent and is quiet in its own right.

Go A64 for ~$80-$90 and you won't regret it.

My $.02.

Thanks! Please, could you explain the reasoning? I have a few games but until now haven't gotten into them (Max Payne, Deus Ex, Alice). I do a wide range of things on the PC including HDTV (card). The S754 CPUs, well the clock speed isn't the difference, right? An Athlon XP 2200+ is 1.8 Ghz. So the difference must be the CPU architecture, the instruction sets, stuff like that, I figure. If I get the stock HS, could I put a standard 80 mm case fan on it like I have on my 1700+?

The A64/S754 Semprons major advantage is the on die memory controller - it probably boosted performance ~25% clock for clock versus the older AXP. There were some other tweaks, large TLB's, etc. and the addition of the 64 bit standard.

For things like HDTV a dual core would be best, but at least the A64/Sempron (although I would go A64 if you can) is going to be able to handle decoding/encoding much better, as the benchmarks show.

Expect a snappier PC with the S754 vs. the AXP.




*also, the Nforce4 chipset is going to be a lot better than any AXP one feature wise - gigabit ethernet, robust RAID, etc.

Thanks. Please forgive my ignorance. The highlighted text above: I infer that the A64/Sempron is a precursor to the A64, and therefore inferior. Is this correct? Would the MB's in this thread support both?

One thing I do need is PCI, not PCI-E, because my HDTV card is PCI. Thanks again.

By AXP, I presume you are referring to Athlon XP processors...

 

[imported_moabb]

Can I use this mainboard to replace my ECS nForce3-A board and still use my cpu (A64/3200) and all the other components? Or would it better to just pick up another ECSnForce3-A for $50.00? Also thinking about replacing the graphic card from 6600GT to the 1950PRO. Please give me your thoughts...

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Muse
I'm wondering what would be the nature of any benefits if I upgraded my system with a new motherboard and CPU. Below are my system specs (Beauty in my sig). The Sempron processors don't appear to be all that much if at all faster than my current Athlon 1700+.

See for yourself:

AMD Sempron: A Fresh Take on Budget Computing
Includes benchmarks for S754 Sempron, Socket A Sempron and Athlon XP

AMD Sempron 2600+ for Socket 754
Includes benchmarks for S754 and Socket A Semprons

New Budget Processors Comparison: Intel Celeron D vs. AMD Sempron
Includes benchmarks for S754 Sempron, Socket A Sempron and Athlon XP

Socket A/462 Athlon XP 1700+ is roughly equivalent to Socket A/462 Sempron 2200/2300.

Thanks.

Maybe I'll buy an Athlon XP 2200+ and maybe a socket A MB that'll run it. I could probably use my current quiet HS/Fan combo (80 mm Vantec Stealth), current 1 GB RAM, move my current main MB into my spare/testing rig. I'd have a faster system (by virtue of the CPU upgrade), have SATA support and one more PCI slot and have USB 2.0 in both PC's, all for probably < $70. An upgrade on the cheap.

I would strongly, strongly, strongly urge you to go to at least S754 A64. The difference in games is pronounced, and just for desktop use the A64 will be great. I would get the MSI AGP board if you want to reuse RAM and VGA, and then snag a S754 cheap from either somewhere like geeks or the FS/FT forum here. The stock HS, available at geeks for ~$8, is pretty decent and is quiet in its own right.

Go A64 for ~$80-$90 and you won't regret it.

My $.02.

Thanks! Please, could you explain the reasoning? I have a few games but until now haven't gotten into them (Max Payne, Deus Ex, Alice). I do a wide range of things on the PC including HDTV (card). The S754 CPUs, well the clock speed isn't the difference, right? An Athlon XP 2200+ is 1.8 Ghz. So the difference must be the CPU architecture, the instruction sets, stuff like that, I figure. If I get the stock HS, could I put a standard 80 mm case fan on it like I have on my 1700+?

The A64/S754 Semprons major advantage is the on die memory controller - it probably boosted performance ~25% clock for clock versus the older AXP. There were some other tweaks, large TLB's, etc. and the addition of the 64 bit standard.

For things like HDTV a dual core would be best, but at least the A64/Sempron (although I would go A64 if you can) is going to be able to handle decoding/encoding much better, as the benchmarks show.

Expect a snappier PC with the S754 vs. the AXP.




*also, the Nforce4 chipset is going to be a lot better than any AXP one feature wise - gigabit ethernet, robust RAID, etc.

Thanks. Please forgive my ignorance. The highlighted text above: I infer that the A64/Sempron is a precursor to the A64, and therefore inferior. Is this correct? Would the MB's in this thread support both?

One thing I do need is PCI, not PCI-E, because my HDTV card is PCI. Thanks again.

By AXP, I presume you are referring to Athlon XP processors...

Actually, the by "Sempron/A64" I was referring to the family of S754 processors, since there are/were athlon xp semprons as well. They are quite comparable to the S754 A64's, but as you say are slightly inferior due to smaller caches and lower clock speeds.

If I were you and wanted a solid performance bump, I would look for a 3000+, 3200+, or 3400+ S754 Athlon 64.

The motherboards would indeed support both, and I would still go with the nforce4 chipset due to its robust features and evident Vista compatibility.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: moabb
Can I use this mainboard to replace my ECS nForce3-A board and still use my cpu (A64/3200) and all the other components? Or would it better to just pick up another ECSnForce3-A for $50.00? Also thinking about replacing the graphic card from 6600GT to the 1950PRO. Please give me your thoughts...

If you are seriously thinking about going to a new video card, get the nforce4 PCIe version. You'll get a better video card for less money that way, and the video card would be the only thing you wouldn't be able to migrate.

Nat

 

[imported_moabb]

Thanks blckgrffn. Just exactly the info that I was looking for. Can you suggest a decent nforce4 PCIe and a video card? And just to confirm, I can swap my Corsaie Value Ram and A64/3200 to the nforce4 PCIe correct? Thanks.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Actually, the by "Sempron/A64" I was referring to the family of S754 processors, since there are/were athlon xp semprons as well. They are quite comparable to the S754 A64's, but as you say are slightly inferior due to smaller caches and lower clock speeds.

If I were you and wanted a solid performance bump, I would look for a 3000+, 3200+, or 3400+ S754 Athlon 64.

The motherboards would indeed support both, and I would still go with the nforce4 chipset due to its robust features and evident Vista compatibility.

Thanks! Well, wanting to keep my dual-DVI BFG AGP 6600 GT, and have maximum PCI slots, it appears that the first board in the OP, the MSI K8N Neo V2.0 H, might work well for me. A point I'm wondering about is the serial COM port(s). It says at the MSI link that on the back panel there's:

- 1 x Serial port (COM 1)

Above where it says that, it says for Internal I/O connectors, that there's:

- Serial port header (COM2)

Does this mean I can somehow connect 2 serial port devices?

If there's for all practical purposes (or actually) only one, there are ways I can live with this, but it would be some hassle. I can buy a USB remote for my HDTV card ($19 + shipping), or try to use my USB --> Serial cable and hope to get trouble free service out of it, something I thought I had for a while but it turned out to be a real headache, so I stopped using it when I couldn't get my external modem to work reliably with it.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: moabb
Thanks blckgrffn. Just exactly the info that I was looking for. Can you suggest a decent nforce4 PCIe and a video card? And just to confirm, I can swap my Corsaie Value Ram and A64/3200 to the nforce4 PCIe correct? Thanks.

I would grab the MSI that is listed in this thread (in the original post). If you have a S754 (I am 99% sure you do) then your ram (up to 2 sticks) and CPU will work great!

As for video cards, it's up to you. I would consider the new 8600GT, 7600GT, or a X1900 series card. The 8600GT is DX10, doesn't use much power, and is faster than the 7600 GT by a slim margin and runs ~$160-180. The 7600GT is good performer, has generally the same power needs as the 8600GT, and will run you ~$100. The X1900 is faster/as fast as the 8600GT, is available around $130, with the drawback of needing a lot of juice.

Unless you are planning on replacing your power supply, I would stick on the 7600GT and 8600GT as they use roughly the same amount of power your 6600GT does while offering a very solid improvement in performance.

If you have the dough, I would spring for the 8600GT. It seems to do OK performance wise and you're DX10 compliant, so you should be set for quite a while. If you are going to spend the extra money, look for an OC'd variant if you can get one for within $10 of the normal card price. That way you get the extra speed without the hassle of 3rd party tools.

Good luck

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Actually, the by "Sempron/A64" I was referring to the family of S754 processors, since there are/were athlon xp semprons as well. They are quite comparable to the S754 A64's, but as you say are slightly inferior due to smaller caches and lower clock speeds.

If I were you and wanted a solid performance bump, I would look for a 3000+, 3200+, or 3400+ S754 Athlon 64.

The motherboards would indeed support both, and I would still go with the nforce4 chipset due to its robust features and evident Vista compatibility.

Thanks! Well, wanting to keep my dual-DVI BFG AGP 6600 GT, and have maximum PCI slots, it appears that the first board in the OP, the MSI K8N Neo V2.0 H, might work well for me. A point I'm wondering about is the serial COM port(s). It says at the MSI link that on the back panel there's:

- 1 x Serial port (COM 1)

Above where it says that, it says for Internal I/O connectors, that there's:

- Serial port header (COM2)

Does this mean I can somehow connect 2 serial port devices?

If there's for all practical purposes (or actually) only one, there are ways I can live with this, but it would be some hassle. I can buy a USB remote for my HDTV card ($19 + shipping), or try to use my USB --> Serial cable and hope to get trouble free service out of it, something I thought I had for a while but it turned out to be a real headache, so I stopped using it when I couldn't get my external modem to work reliably with it.

Reading the manual from the spec link, it has one on the rear and then one internal, meaning if you have a serial PCI bracket, you could use that. Otherwise it just has one rear COM port, yes.

Are you feeling the need to distance yourself from legacy ports yet?

Nat

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Actually, the by "Sempron/A64" I was referring to the family of S754 processors, since there are/were athlon xp semprons as well. They are quite comparable to the S754 A64's, but as you say are slightly inferior due to smaller caches and lower clock speeds.

If I were you and wanted a solid performance bump, I would look for a 3000+, 3200+, or 3400+ S754 Athlon 64.

The motherboards would indeed support both, and I would still go with the nforce4 chipset due to its robust features and evident Vista compatibility.

Thanks! Well, wanting to keep my dual-DVI BFG AGP 6600 GT, and have maximum PCI slots, it appears that the first board in the OP, the MSI K8N Neo V2.0 H, might work well for me. A point I'm wondering about is the serial COM port(s). It says at the MSI link that on the back panel there's:

- 1 x Serial port (COM 1)

Above where it says that, it says for Internal I/O connectors, that there's:

- Serial port header (COM2)

Does this mean I can somehow connect 2 serial port devices?

If there's for all practical purposes (or actually) only one, there are ways I can live with this, but it would be some hassle. I can buy a USB remote for my HDTV card ($19 + shipping), or try to use my USB --> Serial cable and hope to get trouble free service out of it, something I thought I had for a while but it turned out to be a real headache, so I stopped using it when I couldn't get my external modem to work reliably with it.

Reading the manual from the spec link, it has one on the rear and then one internal, meaning if you have a serial PCI bracket, you could use that. Otherwise it just has one rear COM port, yes.

Are you feeling the need to distance yourself from legacy ports yet?

Nat

Well, one of those legacy ports will have to remain, I suppose, because my universal remote control (Home Theater Master MX-700) is programmed through a serial COM port. I have it's cable permanently attached to one of the two COM ports on my main PC. Another is currently used by the IR sensor for the MyHD HDTV PCI card, although as I say, I can buy a USB version. I'm not on a quest to dump legacy features, but maybe if I knew what I am sacrificing, I would be doing that.

I was looking at the other board, the one with PCI-E, and wondering if I might not be better off with it. Maybe I could use my AGP card with it with reasonable success, I don't know. I do have 2 cards that are in some sense optional (modem and firewire), but it would be nice if I could have one or both in my main PC. I don't use them alot, especially the firewire (it's been a couple of years!). I could fax from my laptop or my 2nd PC, but again it would be nice if I could do it from my main desktop instead. It's kind of hard for me to weigh all this stuff and determine the best solutions. Anyway, thanks for the help!!

PS I'm making a trip down into Silicon Valley today, and could make stops at Microcenter, Frys and other stores, but if I am unsure what I do, I will wait and maybe order some stuff online or wait until next month (I do this trip to a meeting most months).

 

[Muse]

Does MSI K8N Neo V2.0 H have onboard LAN? MSI's page seems to indicate that 10/100 and Gigabit LAN is "optional" by virtue of Realtek® 8100C and 8110SB. What does this imply? A plug in component to be bought separately?

 

[johnnycasaba]

That NForce 3 board can now be had for $25.00 plus shipping, details here:


Emailed coupon code deleted, account locked for one week. Do not post codes that are only available by email.
Read the rules!
AnandTech Moderator

 

[Muse]

Quoted coupon code deleted, account locked for one week. Do not post codes that are only available by email.
Read the rules!
AnandTech Moderator

Um, I did not quote the coupon code, moderator! I only indicated that the deal was only available at the posted link by virtue of the code displayed there. I didn't even post the link, I only quoted it. It was just by way of explanation. Is that contrary to the rules?

Um, I was unaware that the link was only available by virtue of an email. I swear, I was completely innocent of that fact. In fact, the only evidence I have for that is your say so.

 

[Muse]

I have a question about the NF3-250 board. The MSI CPU compatibility page I was able to find indicates that compatibility with many CPU's is under testing, including the Venice 3200+ CPU. It does indicate that the Venice 3000+ is "OK." So, I gather that getting the 3200+ would be a gamble compared to the 3000+.

That page would seem to indicate that the onboard LAN is 10/100 and the Geeks.com page for the board says 10/100/1000.

I feel like a babe in the woods shopping for CPU's. There's so many flavors it's entirely confusing to me. I've tried to make sense of the comments in this thread, but I'm more or less lost. Sempron, Venice, there's other code names. A64, Sempron A64. And then there are those numbers (3000+, 3200+, etc. etc.) and there appears to be no correlation with them to clock speed. I have no idea what those numbers mean, other than that presumably a higher number is better. Well, unless it's not flagged as OK on a compatibility page. And seemingly the same CPU's accommodate differing sockets. Then there's the OS compatibility issues, complex video card compatibility issues, chipset support/nonsupport, BIOS upgrade uncertainties, methods of obtaining updates. Etc. Etc. Upgrading seems to be getting tougher, not easier.

I've got the board in my cart, but I'm reluctant to pull the trigger. I know if I get it I won't be able to upgrade to Vista with it. I think I'll take a better look at the NF-4 board.

 

[Muse]

Does anyone have any take on whether or not my BFG geforce 6600 GT OC AGP daul-DVI video card would work in the NF4-4x board (and if so, how good?)? MSI's compatibility link ( http://pm-websitehtml/products/mainboard/agr/7135agr.pdf ) hasn't been working. TIA.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Muse
Does anyone have any take on whether or not my BFG geforce 6600 GT OC AGP daul-DVI video card would work in the NF4-4x board (and if so, how good?)? MSI's compatibility link ( http://pm-websitehtml/products/mainboard/agr/7135agr.pdf ) hasn't been working. TIA.

Well, you can Google it, but everyone's linking to the one that isn't found... but I looked for a while and found this one, and I guess it's the same PDF:

http://www.msi-korea.co.kr/images/page/faq/2005/1115/2th/7135agr.pdf

Looks like it may work with both my 6600GT and my Ti4600, only the former is dual-DVI, though.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: gvbjr
This board and that 3200 venice with any luck would just about rival anything within the realm of reasonability. Outrageous performance for the dollar when you consider what a c2d rig would cost done up properly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. At geeks.com they are selling the same processor (is it the same?) as the Venice 3200+ that's selling for $46 at Newegg, free shipping only it's the retail version, for $55, which includes HS/Fan and 3 year warranty compared to 1 year for the OEM at Newegg. It would include shipping, but if you are already getting one of these motherboards, it's no additional shipping for the CPU (at least for me, in northern California.

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 512KB Socket 754 CPU - Retail

Hmm, I bet that isn't a Venice processor. Well, neither of these mobos has that 3200+ Venice processor listed as OK...

How would the HS/Fan on this compare with the separate one:

AMD Socket AM2/940/939/754 Heat Sink & Fan up to 3800+

 

[Muse]

I got the K8N Neo v2.0H board at Geeks and Venice 2.2 GHz processor at Newegg (now $36 !!! Get 'em while they're hot!). Thanks, OP for this thread! Thanks, too, for hosting the BIOS's. I kind of think the 5.4 version is the one for this mobo based on the research I've done (and I may well have seen the same things you did at MSI Forums). Anyway, I won't flash unless I have a good reason to. I think this mobo is recently manufactured, so it may already have the latest BIOS. I haven't put the system together yet, so I don't know what version I have.

It turns out I will be able to use two serial COM ports with this board. It has one connection on the back and a header on the board. I had an old AT case in my garage from which I salvaged a serial port cable/bracket, which I'll connect to the header for a 2nd port.

The kicker for the nforce 3 board was the 5 PCI slots. 3 PCI just won't make it for me. 4, maybe, but not 3.

I got an Alpine64 HS/Fan for the CPU, because I want to minimize noise. It may not be necessary with BIOS controlled CPU fan speed based on temperature, but I don't want to find out later that a quieter solution is necessary.

Here's a new thread on this forum on that Venice processor:

sckt754 A64 3200+ + 512MB flash mem stick =$36

 

[Muse]

Can someone maybe answer a question I have about these MSI mobos? I don't know about the NF4-4x board, but if it has a Phoenix Award BIOS, it probably has the same feature as the NF3-250 board. In the Advanced Power Management, there's an option to power-on at a specific hh:mm:ss (time), and day-of-the-month. My MSI KT3 Ultra2 board that I currently use has an AMI BIOS and it has a similar feature, but there is a "Daily" option included. The graphics I've seen of this indicate that the default settings are Disabled and have the day-of-the-month set at zero ( 0 ). So my question is if the option is Enabled and the day-of-the-month set at zero, will it fire up daily at the specified time?

 

[gwynethgh]

oops no comment

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: gwynethgh
oops no comment

Oops... false alarm?

Fingers crossed, I'll be attempting my first post, probably today...

 

[Muse]

I have determined that the nforce 3 250 board (still for sale at $34.99 at geeks.com) is likely actually this:

K8N Neo-FSR/ V V2.0

It does not say that on the board itself. What it says is what it says at geeks.com page for the board, K8N Neo v2.0 H. However, there appears to be no such designation in terms of what you see at MSI's website. BTW, I'm accessing the Taiwan MSI website, not the USA version. The USA version has been hacked and you are apt to pick up a lot of unwanted spyware if you hit it.

The board, I believe, is actually the 2nd from the left in the chart at the above link. The installed BIOS is version 9.0, it has gigabit LAN, and the PCB version is 3.0

So far, I haven't been able to get the 2nd serial COM port to work. I scavenged a COM bracket off my old AT case and plugged it into the COM2 header, checked to see that COM2 is reported working in Windows and is set in the BIOS, but neither of my serial devices work on it.

 

[Muse]

Well, my Nforce3 mobo, the one geeks.com was offering per this thread died last week. It's a MSI nforce3 250 motherboard K8N Neo-FSR/ V V2.0.

First it killed my video card (BFG AGP 6600 OC ) and then just died. I thought it was the PSU, so I put in my other PSU and that PSU died in a second, giving off a strong smell of burned electronics. I called MSI and they tell me it is an OEM board and they don't extend support. I'm on hold now with geeks.com over a half hour, but I doubt they will do a thing.

I guess I'll be looking for another MB, one with several PCI slots, and hopefully onboard LAN and onboard modem would be nice. Also SATA support. Also it would be nice if it supported my socket 754 AMD Venice 2.2 GHz CPU.