MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III Power Edition - Looks pretty solid

[DrBoss]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-575-_-Product

I am very seriously considering using 2 of these in crossfire. Quiet, cool, pre-overclocked [850 Core, 1300 Memory] (with more headroom available), solid attractive build, etc.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_6950_Twin_Frozr_III/

http://www.chiphell.com/en/graphics/hd-6950-crossfirex-vs-gtx-560-ti-sli/http://www.chiphell.com/en/graphics/msi-r6950-twin-frozr-iii-power-editionoc-review/

Thoughs?

Benchmarks from the Chip Hell review
Solid performance right out of the box

 

[happy medium]

Seems like a nice card, a little pricey though. You can grab a gtx570 for less.

 

[DrBoss]

Seems like a nice card, a little pricey though. You can grab a gtx570 for less.

yea, seems 570's would slightly outperform two of these... but from what i have read, the MSI R6950 is less audible, which is a definite plus.

 

[Termie]

Seems like a nice card, a little pricey though. You can grab a gtx570 for less.

Well, just barely. Cheapest 570 right now is Galaxy for $298AR/ship: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&PageSize=20.

Most are quite a bit more. The MSI under $290 deal died.

You might consider the other Twin Frozer 6950 to save a few dollars: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127562. It can probably overclock just as high, and reviews are very good. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_6950_Twin_Frozr_II/27.html

Techpowerup's review of the Twin Frozer III really isn't that positive if you look closely - temps and noise are not that great.

 

[MarkLuvsCS]

I bought an MSI twinfrozrII gtx 460 about a month ago and I will say it was a great buy. The card runs really cool around ~40c idle in an gateway comp. ~55c under load. The only thing that sucks is the air doesn't get blown through the slot and it gets filtered in the case. If i didn't have such a crappy gateway case it'd be perfect, but it isn't an issue with some air flow.

 

[DrBoss]

I went ahead and bit the bullet on my next build.

Two MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III Power Edition
Intel Core i7-2600K
ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3
8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 V1.5
Corsair 850HX power supply
Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB SATA 6.0Gb/s
Pioneer BDR-206
HT Omega eClaro 7.1 PCIe

This will be installed into a Fractal Design XL which i purchased a few weeks ago and outfitted with Thermalright Silent-X fans. A Thermalright Archon heatsink will be used with the CPU.


Parts arrive Monday, i will post the build and impressions in the appropriate forum once i've put the system through it's paces.

 

[dma0991]

Adding a SSD can improve the performance/speed of your rig greatly. Do consider getting a SSD next time as I see the only bottleneck of your build is your HDD.

 

[Termie]

Adding a SSD can improve the performance/speed of your rig greatly. Do consider getting a SSD next time as I see the only bottleneck of your build is your HDD.

Actually you should order an SSD today, not wait until your next build. That WD drive is really too slow to be the backbone of such a modern system. Buy a $130 60GB sandforce drive to use as your OS driive.

 

[DrBoss]

Adding a SSD can improve the performance/speed of your rig greatly. Do consider getting a SSD next time as I see the only bottleneck of your build is your HDD.

i've got a 600gb WD raptor that would be my primary HDD.

truth be told, i planned to purchase an SSD for this build but got anxious yesterday with the fear that some of my parts might sell out so i jumped the gun and made the purchase. it was my intention to hold out for a 120GB OCZ Vertex 3... which i will still probably buy once it is available.

it would be a shame to format the drives and get the build up an running on a platter only to have to re-install windows 7 on the SSD.

edit: this will also be my first experience with Windows 7... I've tried to hold onto XP as long as possible (did the same thing with NT5), but it looks as though XP is finally obsolete. I'm not looking foward to the newer, even more bloated, OS. how bad is it?

 

[Termie]

i've got a 600gb WD raptor that would be my primary HDD.

truth be told, i planned to purchase an SSD for this build but got anxious yesterday with the fear that some of my parts might sell out so i jumped the gun and made the purchase. it was my intention to hold out for a 120GB OCZ Vertex 3... which i will still probably buy once it is available.

it would be a shame to format the drives and get the build up an running on a platter only to have to re-install windows 7 on the SSD.

edit: this will also be my first experience with Windows 7... I've tried to hold onto XP as long as possible (did the same thing with NT5), but it looks as though XP is finally obsolete. I'm not looking foward to the newer, even more bloated, OS. how bad is it?

Well, that Raptor is pretty darn fast for a platter drive, so that wouldn't be a bad OS drive. But moving everything over later will be a pain, so if you wanted an SSD, I'd still suggest you look into the ones available today. The Vertex 3 is delayed due to firmware problems, and I don't think they'll get it right before release anyway. Most new SSDs end up with firmware issues (some pretty serious). Any of the SF-1200 drives would be fine, as would the Intel X-25M. If you can score one of the X-25m 120GB drives for ~$200, I'm sure you'd be very satisfied. You could then use the Raptor as an application/data drive, and the WD Black as a backup. That would be a sweet setup.

Win7 is really quite good. I don't see any reason to worry about the switch from XP.

You can get the X-25M for $210FS today only from Superbiiz, with code MAD15.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...-120GB-Mainstream-SATA2-Solid-State-Drive-MLC

I've ordered from them before - no problems at all (although the free shipping is not 3-day). Yes, it won't all be ready by Monday, but waiting a few more days is the logical thing to do. And are you really going to build the rig Monday night? I didn't think so...

 

[DrBoss]

The Vertex 3 is delayed due to firmware problems, and I don't think they'll get it right before release anyway. Most new SSDs end up with firmware issues (some pretty serious). Any of the SF-1200 drives would be fine, as would the Intel X-25M. If you can score one of the X-25m 120GB drives for ~$200, I'm sure you'd be very satisfied. You could then use the Raptor as an application/data drive, and the WD Black as a backup. That would be a sweet setup.

would you recommend the Intel X-25m over the Intel 510? Seems the X-25m is known to be reliable.. but the 510 hasn't been in the wild long enough to confirm it has similar reliability.

 

[Termie]

would you recommend the Intel X-25m over the Intel 510? Seems the X-25m is known to be reliable.. but the 510 hasn't been in the wild long enough to confirm it has similar reliability.

510 is way more expensive, and reviews suggest that it is not significantly faster than x-25m. Intel sacrificed random read speed for sequential speed, which is mostly a marketing gimmick. For the average OS drive, random speed is much more important.

Here's the 510 120GB for $295 after coupon, if you really prefer it: http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...K5-2-5-inch-120GB-SATA3-Solid-State-Drive-MLC

Review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4202/the-intel-ssd-510-review/14

Anand's take:

"My biggest complaints about the 510 actually aren't about Intel's use of a 3rd party controller, instead they are about the drive's lackluster random read performance. In a horrible bout of irony Intel fixed its sequential performance and moved backwards in the random department. Random read performance, as it turns out, has a pretty major impact in the real world."

 

[DrBoss]

Review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4202/the-intel-ssd-510-review/14

Anand's take:

"My biggest complaints about the 510 actually aren't about Intel's use of a 3rd party controller, instead they are about the drive's lackluster random read performance. In a horrible bout of irony Intel fixed its sequential performance and moved backwards in the random department. Random read performance, as it turns out, has a pretty major impact in the real world."

Yea, i just read through that review.

I decided to run with the X25-m 160GB. I wanted to keep my order with Newegg. Ended up getting it for $315 (after 75$ mail in rebate).

I appreciate the help Termie

 

[Termie]

Yea, i just read through that review.

I decided to run with the X25-m 160GB. I wanted to keep my order with Newegg. Ended up getting it for $315 (after 75$ mail in rebate).

I appreciate the help Termie

Big rebate but I trust Intel to come through on that. Very nice price for the capacity. And it's plenty fast. You will like it!

And by the way, definitely report back when you have it all assembled and running.

 

[supahnoobie]

Great decision on your build. I think it will last @ least for ten years! Cheers!

 

[DrBoss]

And by the way, definitely report back when you have it all assembled and running.

Will do.

At this point my only concern is heat from the R6950's running in crossfire. I've been unable to find any crossfire reviews of cards using the Twin Frozr III (which expels some heat into the case). While the cards are quite and cool (with a single card) i am worried that heat released into the case will accumulate and become less than ideal.

Hopefully the 3 Thermalright Silent-X intake fans along with the 180mm & 140mm (also Silent-x) exhaust fans will do the trick. If not i have the option to add a side mounted 140mm next to the graphic cards... but i'd like to avoid this for acoustic reasons.

edit: also, the cpu/archon will be cooled using two Thermalright TY-140's in push pull

 

[Leyawiin]

yea, seems 570's would slightly outperform two of these... but from what i have read, the MSI R6950 is less audible, which is a definite plus.

I don't think that's a particularly quiet card. TechPowerUp! is pretty fussy about fan noise and he doesn't seem impressed by the MSI.

 

[Termie]

Will do.

At this point my only concern is heat from the R6950's running in crossfire. I've been unable to find any crossfire reviews of cards using the Twin Frozr III (which expels some heat into the case). While the cards are quite and cool (with a single card) i am worried that heat released into the case will accumulate and become less than ideal.

Hopefully the 3 Thermalright Silent-X intake fans along with the 180mm & 140mm (also Silent-x) exhaust fans will do the trick. If not i have the option to add a side mounted 140mm next to the graphic cards... but i'd like to avoid this for acoustic reasons.

edit: also, the cpu/archon will be cooled using two Thermalright TY-140's in push pull

It sounds like you have plenty of cooling. The 6950 is a relatively cool running chip (when not run with 6970 shaders/clocks), but you do have the issue of the Twin Frozer dumping heat into the case. You'll find out soon enough, but I'm pretty sure your airflow will be sufficient with 3 intake fans and two fairly large exhaust fans. My hunch is that the side fan would just disrupt airflow without adding substantially to the cool air reaching the video cards.

By the way, in case you didn't know, make sure you set AHCI in your bios before installing W7 - that's an important step when running an SSD.

 

[DrBoss]

By the way, in case you didn't know, make sure you set AHCI in your bios before installing W7 - that's an important step when running an SSD.

I didn't know that, so thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to tinkering around in the Asus bios. From what i've read online the bios on the sabertooth is awesome.

Hoping to strike a 24/7 clock around 4.6 ghz.

 

[DrBoss]

I don't think that's a particularly quiet card. TechPowerUp! is pretty fussy about fan noise and he doesn't seem impressed by the MSI.

I suppose 'relatively' would have been an accurate addition to my line about the card's noise. Prior to settling on two of these graphic cards i was considering a 6990, which obviously produces a huge amount of noise.

One thing about the techpowerup article is they do not identify if they have the card's fans set to 'performance' or 'silent' (which is set via a switch on the PCB).

 

[DrBoss]

So the bulk of components arrived on Friday, the SSD will arrive today. I started the build yesterday and things progressed smoothly for the most part.

Unfortunately the pressure adjustable mounting plate that came with the Thermalright Archon did not fit over the socket due to a conflict with a heat-sink on the Sabertooth motherboard. After a bit of head scratching i pulled out my angle grinder and ground away steel on the mounting plate until it fit (which it now does). Moving forward i added the Shin-Etsu thermal paste, and mounted the Archon. I must say, all of the components that came with the Thermalright cooler are very high quality (cooler, backplate, mounting plate, screws, everything). I now have everything tightened down but there is still a little bit of play. The cooler will not move on its own, but if i apply force, i can slightly twist the cooler (two or so degrees) on top of the socket. Is this normal?

Next i mounted the ram, installed the motherboard in the case, installed the PSU, the end. I will pick up where i left off tonight when i get home from work. As far as the initial bootup and OS install is concerned, should i have both of my MSI R6950's installed, or should i wait to install the crossfire setup until i have everything up and running?

Needless to say, i am looking forward to this evening. Hopefully i will find time to Benchmark Crysis 1.

 

[Will Robinson]

Hiya Boss,I would wait till you have the system up and running before adding the 2nd graphics card.
Win 7 is way better than XP and with that new rig it will be great.

 

[rangda]

At this point my only concern is heat from the R6950's running in crossfire. I've been unable to find any crossfire reviews of cards using the Twin Frozr III (which expels some heat into the case). While the cards are quite and cool (with a single card) i am worried that heat released into the case will accumulate and become less than ideal.

I bought two of these to try in crossfire and it won't work if the cards are in adjacent slots. With the cards next to each other the outside card hit 90c / 100% fan after 15 min sitting at the very beginning of BF2 (where you sneak up on the Japanese with your knife). That card was dumping a significant amount of hot air into the case.

With a single card temps never broke 60c and the card was pretty quiet (much more quiet than my 5870 if I want those temps).

The single card wasn't putting a significant amount of hot air into the case either, so with a good airflow case I think xfire would be fine.

My mobo has 3 slots but the 3rd is slots 7/8 & my case only has 7 slots, so I'm going to have to move to another case (HAF 942) to crossifre the Twin Frozr's.

NOTE: My current case is a Silverstone FT02 which is a stack design (ports at the top so cards are vertical instead of horizontal) & I think this lowers the effectiveness of the heap pipe cooling of the cards.

 

[DrBoss]

I bought two of these to try in crossfire and it won't work if the cards are in adjacent slots. With the cards next to each other the outside card hit 90c / 100% fan after 15 min sitting at the very beginning of BF2 (where you sneak up on the Japanese with your knife). That card was dumping a significant amount of hot air into the case.

With a single card temps never broke 60c and the card was pretty quiet (much more quiet than my 5870 if I want those temps).

The single card wasn't putting a significant amount of hot air into the case either, so with a good airflow case I think xfire would be fine.

My mobo has 3 slots but the 3rd is slots 7/8 & my case only has 7 slots, so I'm going to have to move to another case (HAF 942) to crossifre the Twin Frozr's.

NOTE: My current case is a Silverstone FT02 which is a stack design (ports at the top so cards are vertical instead of horizontal) & I think this lowers the effectiveness of the heap pipe cooling of the cards.

Thanks for the heads up, but i think (hope) it will be alright. The Asus Sabertooth is configured to provide a free pci slot between two dual slot video cards. And the Fractal Design case has a removeable panel below pci slot 7 to improve airflow to a video card mounted at the bottom of the mobo. There is also 3 fans mounted at the front of my case, one of which blows air directly towards the video cards.

I will know soon enough, however; i am still looking for an answer to my question about slight rotation in the heatsink.

 

[Termie]

I bought two of these to try in crossfire and it won't work if the cards are in adjacent slots. With the cards next to each other the outside card hit 90c / 100% fan after 15 min sitting at the very beginning of BF2 (where you sneak up on the Japanese with your knife). That card was dumping a significant amount of hot air into the case.

With a single card temps never broke 60c and the card was pretty quiet (much more quiet than my 5870 if I want those temps).

The single card wasn't putting a significant amount of hot air into the case either, so with a good airflow case I think xfire would be fine.

My mobo has 3 slots but the 3rd is slots 7/8 & my case only has 7 slots, so I'm going to have to move to another case (HAF 942) to crossifre the Twin Frozr's.

NOTE: My current case is a Silverstone FT02 which is a stack design (ports at the top so cards are vertical instead of horizontal) & I think this lowers the effectiveness of the heap pipe cooling of the cards.

Anandtech stuffed wads of paper in between its 6970s to get better airflow in triple crossfire: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4254/triplegpu-performance-multigpu-scaling-part1/2. Having those slots so close with such a boxy design really isn't that great. But the Twin Frozer will hopefully work better for crossfire.